Concerned: Am I being scammed by a seller on TRF?

[jbk45]

Originally Posted by jvacc

really sorry to hear about your experience, and the other 2 in this thread. i would'nt be hard on yourself - the reality there are a lot of us in the forum that are not Rolex or watch trading experts or be able to tell the difference between a fake and a real rolex. we are human beings with jobs and other responsibilities, and you sound like someone that has worked hard and has a passion for the brand. the point i'm trying to make - you did some of the right things when purchasing, and asked for references (as everyone recommends). not all of us have 20+hours to spend researching to purchase a watch, some of us buy a home or car with less research time than some spend buying a watch.

you are the victim of a crime (and sounds like a relatively advanced scam thats been planned over many months), and unfortunately in today's world some will blame you. i prefer to blame the criminals and go after them - but its possible these criminals reside outside of the United States.

anyways - i'm sorry to hear about this situation and hope you can get some kind of resolution.

Thank you - much appreciated perspective.

[116710er]

Originally Posted by jvacc

...unfortunately in today's world some will blame you. i prefer to blame the criminals and go after them - but its possible these criminals reside outside of the United States.

I know your comments aren't directed at me in particular and I can't speak for others but even though I may not come across as being compassionate about the the OP's misfortune but I truly am. I hate seeing other hobbyist (and seemingly good folks) getting scammed. Some people are just a-holes.

In my view, the OP did his checks to the best of his abilities & knowledge at the time...maybe bit eager but when finding a piece at a good price, who isn't? The scammers were just one step ahead and I think some of these "criticisms" are more about pointing out such things to others so that hopefully, someone sees this thread and learns from it.

In today's world, with the ease of digital communications and money transactions, you simply need to be more cognizant and frankly, more suspicious of sellers if you want to roll around in the secondary market. It's just a nature of the beast and realistically, it's all a risk anyways. Even from a legit seller you could get a piece that is lost, mistakenly represented (like 16610LV story a while back), etc.

If you don't want to deal with all that, just stick with AD's and some of the very well known sellers here who have a long sales history. That's as safe as you're going to get.

[116710er]

Originally Posted by lolo1972sg

Long term Trusted sellers or not, their accounts can still be hacked and be used in scams. This has become prevalent.

This is an easy situation to overcome. In most cases, hacked accounts (especially of an active "trusted" seller) have a VERY limited time span for the scammers to work in (and they know it) so they will almost always put the contact info right in the ad (usually not obscured or coded like johnsmith AT whatevs.com). If the ad's price looks too good to be true or even better than average, just search the sellers older ads and compare contact info. ANY discrepancy is an immediate red flag. Many times the scammers will start a VERY similar looking email address. For example, say the trusted sellers real email is "[email protected]". The scammers will use "[email protected]". If you're not paying close attention, it's easy to miss. Also pay attention to the ad style. Most people tend to advertise is a similar manner with similar syntax/writing style.

Even for private sellers, again, if you're even a little suspicious, just search for the seller's older ads and compare contact info, ad styles, etc. If I'm suspicious, I will use the seller's contact info from the OLD sales ad. Or cross check the forums. A lot of people are on the various watch sites under the same user name/email address/contact number/etc.

[jvacc]

Originally Posted by 116710er

I know your comments aren't directed at me in particular and I can't speak for others but even though I may not come across as being compassionate about the the OP's misfortune but I truly am. I hate seeing other hobbyist (and seemingly good folks) getting scammed. Some people are just a-holes.

In my view, the OP did his checks to the best of his abilities & knowledge at the time...maybe bit eager but when finding a piece at a good price, who isn't? The scammers were just one step ahead and I think some of these "criticisms" are more about pointing out such things to others so that hopefully, someone sees this thread and learns from it.

In today's world, with the ease of digital communications and money transactions, you simply need to be more cognizant and frankly, more suspicious of sellers if you want to roll around in the secondary market. It's just a nature of the beast and realistically, it's all a risk anyways. Even from a legit seller you could get a piece that is lost, mistakenly represented (like 16610LV story a while back), etc.

If you don't want to deal with all that, just stick with AD's and some of the very well known sellers here who have a long sales history. That's as safe as you're going to get.

wasnt directed at you at all. i understand the comments in good faith and trying to give advice. some comments seem helpful, while some lack substance and detail - but in the end we are all here to learn.

[iamjakekim]

This is horrible. OP - I know this is extremely hard for you but we all appreciate you sharing the story. Hopefully this will educate many newbies (myself included) when purchasing watches.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[lolo1972sg]

Originally Posted by 116710er

This is an easy situation to overcome. In most cases, hacked accounts (especially of an active "trusted" seller) have a VERY limited time span for the scammers to work in (and they know it) so they will almost always put the contact info right in the ad (usually not obscured or coded like johnsmith AT whatevs.com). If the ad's price looks too good to be true or even better than average, just search the sellers older ads and compare contact info. ANY discrepancy is an immediate red flag. Many times the scammers will start a VERY similar looking email address. For example, say the trusted sellers real email is "[email protected]". The scammers will use "[email protected]". If you're not paying close attention, it's easy to miss. Also pay attention to the ad style. Most people tend to advertise is a similar manner with similar syntax/writing style.

Even for private sellers, again, if you're even a little suspicious, just search for the seller's older ads and compare contact info, ad styles, etc. If I'm suspicious, I will use the seller's contact info from the OLD sales ad. Or cross check the forums. A lot of people are on the various watch sites under the same user name/email address/contact number/etc.

Very good idea! Thanks

[Cobra24]

I had a very similar situation happen to me. I wired funds for a SubC to a pledge TRF member with “many” posts and references, but unfortunately it was a fraud. I got the same delay tactic responses so I didn’t try to recall the wire for a few days but sadly the money was already out of the account.

File a police report and the online FBI report with all the info you have. Likely nothing will ever get solved, but at least you will have a record of the events in case something does. It sounds like it’s the same person or group that frauded me, so maybe if enough reports are filed then they can track these scumbags down.

Aside from the pain of losing a large chunk of money, it’s extra frustrating because Rolex is now a reminder of a dumb/unfortunate event vs. something I really enjoyed in the past.

[lolo1972sg]

Originally Posted by Cobra24

I had a very similar situation happen to me. I wired funds for a SubC to a pledge TRF member with “many” posts and references, but unfortunately it was a fraud. I got the same delay tactic responses so I didn’t try to recall the wire for a few days but sadly the money was already out of the account.



File a police report and the online FBI report with all the info you have. Likely nothing will ever get solved, but at least you will have a record of the events in case something does. It sounds like it’s the same person or group that frauded me, so maybe if enough reports are filed then they can track these scumbags down.



Aside from the pain of losing a large chunk of money, it’s extra frustrating because Rolex is now a reminder of a dumb/unfortunate event vs. something I really enjoyed in the past.

The last para is the most unfortunate part of it all: it ruins the good feeling of this hobby...

[Burlington]

Sorry to hear OP & the others.

Hope you can find a resolution. To the OP, I admire your stoicism.

[Mike58]

This is truly helpful to newbies like me, thanks for sharing
Mike

[4runnin]

As a new member who hopes to eventually buy and sell on the forum thank you for posting to educate us newbies. I’ve sold on Craigslist a bunch and some car forums but a lot of the scams very from different selling marketplaces.

[GoldenSub]

If I can’t buy it with my credit card “Because of the protection they provide” I don’t buy it period. I feel really bad for the buyer.

[Humble michael]

Sorry , I am a little nauseated hearing over and over “but the seller”. Very simply I Don’t care if it’s David Xyz or the Pope , I am not sending a wire transfer to anyone. I will use pay pal or at least AMX so I have recourse- period ! Even w a “TS” things can happen- there can be a disappointment in the item not being what it was claimed to be and TS might have a different opinion or what if it’s lost in shipping or someone at shipper steals item??? Clearly sellers responsibility and I am not waiting weeks or months for an investigation- if I use AMX , the charge is simply disputed and now the onus is on the seller. For me there is no other answer - I have purchased and sold probably 12 -15 watches from $6000 to $64,500 and have never had a problem. Just what works for me - if Seller not willing fine - no deal! If I am selling I put those costs into my selling price . Certainly I check seller or buyer out but when it comes to these amounts of money for me , I am going to have recourse. :-)

[holdtime]

Originally Posted by james272

Sorry , I am a little nauseated hearing over and over “but the seller”. Very simply I Don’t care if it’s David Xyz or the Pope , I am not sending a wire transfer to anyone. I will use pay pal or at least AMX so I have recourse- period ! Even w a “TS” things can happen- there can be a disappointment in the item not being what it was claimed to be and TS might have a different opinion or what if it’s lost in shipping or someone at shipper steals item??? Clearly sellers responsibility and I am not waiting weeks or months for an investigation- if I use AMX , the charge is simply disputed and now the onus is on the seller. For me there is no other answer - I have purchased and sold probably 12 -15 watches from $6000 to $64,500 and have never had a problem. Just what works for me - if Seller not willing fine - no deal! If I am selling I put those costs into my selling price . Certainly I check seller or buyer out but when it comes to these amounts of money for me , I am going to have recourse. :-)

Agree.100% Never wire $ Period.

[shortsqueeze]

Originally Posted by james272

Sorry , I am a little nauseated hearing over and over “but the seller”. Very simply I Don’t care if it’s David Xyz or the Pope , I am not sending a wire transfer to anyone. I will use pay pal or at least AMX so I have recourse- period ! Even w a “TS” things can happen- there can be a disappointment in the item not being what it was claimed to be and TS might have a different opinion or what if it’s lost in shipping or someone at shipper steals item??? Clearly sellers responsibility and I am not waiting weeks or months for an investigation- if I use AMX , the charge is simply disputed and now the onus is on the seller. For me there is no other answer - I have purchased and sold probably 12 -15 watches from $6000 to $64,500 and have never had a problem. Just what works for me - if Seller not willing fine - no deal! If I am selling I put those costs into my selling price . Certainly I check seller or buyer out but when it comes to these amounts of money for me , I am going to have recourse. :-)

Completely agree. Too much risk, too many variables.

[psv]

Late to this thread but the entire read is so sad.

One added filter/advise is to confirm where the seller say he lives, and go "oh, my cousin lives there, he is a police officer, can he meet you and pick up the watch in person?". If they balk at meeting in person, at a police station or a bank office (both have good cameras), I wouldn't do business with them anyone, scammer or not.

[jvmartin]

Originally Posted by psv

Late to this thread but the entire read is so sad.

One added filter/advise is to confirm where the seller say he lives, and go "oh, my cousin lives there, he is a police officer, can he meet you and pick up the watch in person?". If they balk at meeting in person, at a police station or a bank office (both have good cameras), I wouldn't do business with them anyone, scammer or not.

Not a bad idea but I think the cousin police officer part might be an easy read for a scammer, especially if everyone starts using it... I have had people ask me if they can have a friend meet up with me to do a F2F on their behalf... that would be enough and much more believable... most of the time they actually did...

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by psv

Late to this thread but the entire read is so sad.

One added filter/advise is to confirm where the seller say he lives, and go "oh, my cousin lives there, he is a police officer, can he meet you and pick up the watch in person?". If they balk at meeting in person, at a police station or a bank office (both have good cameras), I wouldn't do business with them anyone, scammer or not.

And if they're not a scammer and you use this, and they say "sure no problem".What do you say then? You have to back track, and all of a sudden you look like the flake.

[Jim Smyth]

Originally Posted by psv

Late to this thread but the entire read is so sad.

One added filter/advise is to confirm where the seller say he lives, and go "oh, my cousin lives there, he is a police officer, can he meet you and pick up the watch in person?". If they balk at meeting in person, at a police station or a bank office (both have good cameras), I wouldn't do business with them anyone, scammer or not.

Here is your bank idea. Better have that friend standing by the exit door.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=635265

[psv]

I'm not saying they are great ideas :-) Just trying to provide an additional layer of defense, it might scare away some shady characters.

And jeez on that last one - the robber will be caught on bank cameras, both inside and outside - not the smartest move in the world.

[jbk45]

Appreciate everyone’s insight - unfortunately and predictably, the bank was unable to recover the funds and the authorities have been unresponsive and effectively useless. Glad this thread could be of help to anyone that’s stumbled across it.

[seabreeze60]

Originally Posted by jbk45

Appreciate everyone’s insight - unfortunately and predictably, the bank was unable to recover the funds and the authorities have been unresponsive and effectively useless. Glad this thread could be of help to anyone that’s stumbled across it.

I reread from the beginning to the end. 100% agree!

[jvmartin]

Originally Posted by jbk45

Appreciate everyone’s insight - unfortunately and predictably, the bank was unable to recover the funds and the authorities have been unresponsive and effectively useless. Glad this thread could be of help to anyone that’s stumbled across it.

That's because it wasn't their money...

[hitek_man_vn]

I am so sorry for your incident. Scumbag.

[jbk45]

Originally Posted by jvmartin

That's because it wasn't their money...

The system is so completely f$%#ed and stacked in favor of the criminals her perpetrate these schemes.

[jbk45]

Originally Posted by hitek_man_vn

I am so sorry for your incident. Scumbag.

Thank you