Grey Dealers - Do you Like Them: Yes or No?

[214270Explorer]

No need for me to deal with them.

[swils8610]

Originally Posted by Wesley Crusher

Greys are great.

They offer better deals than the ADs for models that are not hot and they’re able to offer hot models (albeit at a premium) whereas if you try to buy from an AD, you may be on a waiting list for years.

When it comes to selling/trading, greys are also very fair. I recently sold an Explorer to a grey and the price that was offered to me was very fair. An AD would have offered thousands less.

Agreed on selling/trading. Virtually no risk. They’ve always been fair with me.


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[Exploradori]

They perform a short term individual benefit (in getting you the watch you want) with long term collective cost (hugely distorting the market for watches).

Let’s be honest than an in efficient, well functioning market, there would be no space for greys.

[bobernet]

I’m a fan of the business model, and I genuinely like dealing with some of the people.

1. Quick, easy access to almost any (even obscure or vintage) reference I want from a variety of different brands.

2. Easy transactions at market rate - whether that’s above or below MSRP.

3. Willingness (and ability) to source items “on demand” not necessarily in inventory.

4. Reliable source for trades/sales at rates that tend to also be reasonable and market-driven.

5. Consistent source of parts, accessories, service, etc at reasonable prices.

There’s probably more, but those are some things I appreciate off the top of my head.

I don’t have to drive/fly to an AD, deal with pretentious sales people who don’t even know the products they’re selling. Deal with a lack of inventory, and frequently a lack of after-sale service. Deal with pushing bundling of other watches or jewelry I don’t want.

With little more than 3-4 text messages or emails, I’ve done 6 figure watch deals - whether buy, sell, trade or some combination. With 2 text messages, I had a solid gold link for my President bracelet in the mail to me with nothing but a promise to drop a check back in return.

With 5 minutes of communication and couple emailed pictures, I’ve been able to turn 2 or 3 watches I didn’t wear anymore into something I was excited to own.

I haven’t been very active here in the last year or so, but this has become a very different place. It’s like the Facebook/Instagram/Entitlement generation has descended on TRF with a vengeance. The amount of angst, anger and drama here would fit in well at any US junior high school.

Back on topic, Patrick, David, Aamir and Thanh have all been friendly, consistent, predictable, and pleasant business associates for years. I just did another deal with David where we both feel like winners. That’s how business should be done.

[Fencer]

I am glad they exist.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by bobernet

2. Easy transactions at market rate - whether that’s above or below MSRP.

im a big fan of market rate and a big fan when a brand can control it at least the minimum price. Rolex cant. Look at Hermes or Goyard. There isn't super buyers who can get big discounts and sell on a parallel market at big discounts which then encourages the cycle of not buying in stores. Some hot stuff gets flipped over retail, sure but the secondary market (as long as we are not talking about fakes) isn't devalued to the extent Rolex is spricifically in regard to brand new merchandise, not used.

I would much rather Rolex would do what Reichmont does and buy back and destroy watches that dont sell instead of not caring that the AD just sells them at cost after 5 years to be rid of it.

[bobernet]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

im a big fan of market rate and a big fan when a brand can control it at least the minimum price. Rolex cant. Look at Hermes or Goyard. There isn't super buyers who can get big discounts and sell on a parallel market at big discounts which then encourages the cycle of not buying in stores. Some hot stuff gets flipped over retail, sure but the secondary market (as long as we are not talking about fakes) isn't devalued to the extent Rolex is.

Tyler,

I get your point. It’s fair that there is market distortion happening here, and Hermes/Goyard/LV are not a perfect analogy. But, the overall watch market is larger than the super high-end bag/leather goods market too. Hermes is not making 100k Birkins or Kellys (assuming only 10% of Rolex’s 1M annual production is in the super desirable models).

I also understand that this is the Rolex Forum, but I’m not limiting my comments to just Rolex. A part of why I like dealing grey is that I can call Thanh and be almost guaranteed to source the A. Lange & Söhne I want, even when they’re hard to find and retailers don’t discount (enough) to cover secondary values. I can call Aamir and get almost any Rolex I want BNIB with my name on the warranty card in days. I can call Patrick or David and know they’ll happily take my smorgasbord trade of a JLC, VC and Panerai to get the AP I want.

Even if there were no grey dealers, Rolex is not making enough SS Professional to meet demand. So, instead of having a reliable, trustworthy source to pay over MSRP, everyone would be navigating eBay for them instead and trying to sort out the scammers and fakes from the overpriced genuine watches.

Look and see how many BNIB “flipper” 5711s are for sale. Not many, and yet they still trade way, way, way above MSRP.

The gray market and the stratospheric Rolex pricing (and certain desirable Patek/AP models) are two totally different things. They cross-over, but correlation does not equal causation.

[mrricks]

I’ve purchased two from two of the top trusted sellers. Good deals on an OP 39 and a YM 40 mm.

[bobby81]

I have been using one particular Grey Dealer in the north of England for the last four years & have purchased three Rolex’s from them. I live in Dublin Ireland & there are no Grey Dealers here. The UK is only an hours flight away but to get from the Airport to the north of England I have a two hour Train journey. But I am more than happy to do this. In Dublin there are only one Rolex AD & for the latest Watch i purchased from the Grey Dealer the AD is charging €20,250 the Grey Dealers price was £14,500 even taking the money conversion rate & the travel costs into consideration I have saved thousands over the last four years. I know it is different for the S/S Models but for P/M or the T/T which is where my interest lies the Grey Dealer is ideal. You also get the full warranty left on the card & accessories & with me only purchasing new watches i benefit from the full warranty. This is a photo of my latest acquisition I hope you like it


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[g200]

I don't have a problem with them, watches that are normally scarce and hard to find are not so scarce anymore courtesy of the grey sellers.

[ltmgeller]

Depends on the watch but they do serve a purpose.

[Hollie_Rollie]

I don’t blame the grey dealers at all. If someone’s going to buy a 9k watch for 20k then by all means...if people weren’t paying the ridiculous pricing then they would charge as much.

[timepieceluvr]

I have no issues with retailers or any kind. Consumers make markets not sellers.


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[RichM]

No problem at all. I have from both, AD and TS. Lately it’s been mostly TS.

I moved to a state with only 2 AD’s. I called one just to see if they had something in the store, since they were 80 miles away. I was not looking for a hot watch. The question was answered with, “have you purchased from us before”. I don’t like the attitude if we sell you a watch, we’re doing you a favor.

Now, I just send Thanh a text, wire the funds and get my watch without all the drama.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

Discounts hurt value retention ...

Long story short discounts are why we are where we are now

Couldn’t agree more