Gmt-ii,16710a(pepsi)

[Lion]

Okay, since I'm new to the Forum and want to learn about Rolex watches,I have another question!!! My GMT-II 16710B(PEPSI) was purchased in September of 2007 and has a Serial no.# of Z7749xx. Is the movement in the watch a 3185 or a 3186? If someone can answer my question it would be much appreciated!!!

[karmatp]

You have the 3185, but be happy, you have a time proven movement. The 3186 is all bs hype, they are no more accurate or durable. The 3186 will not be more collectible in the future like some sellers would like buyers to think, it's all false hype. It' just a minor tweak on the 3186 and the 3185 is a such a amazing movement.

[Lion]

Karmatp,THANX for the information,I appreciate your knowledge and response to my question. THANX AGAIN!!!

[Andad]

Well it could be a 3186 and I would have it checked if you feel you want to know - I took the back off my M 3***** to confirm the 3186 movement.
I disagree with Trevor. The 3185 movement was changed to the extent that Rolex gave it another movement number. There were nowhere near the numbers of 3186 GMT II's made compared to the 3185 models and IMO this will eventually have an effect on the second hand price. I believe the last of the GMT II's with the 3186 will be a more sought after Rolex than the 3185 in years to come - Time will tell.

Enjoy wearing it.

[karmatp]

Originally Posted by directioneng

Well it could be a 3186 and I would have it checked if you feel you want to know - I took the back off my M 3***** to confirm the 3186 movement.
I disagree with Trevor. The 3185 movement was changed to the extent that Rolex gave it another movement number. There were nowhere near the numbers of 3186 GMT II's made compared to the 3185 models and IMO this will eventually have an effect on the second hand price. I believe the last of the GMT II's with the 3186 will be a more sought after Rolex than the 3185 in years to come - Time will tell.

Enjoy wearing it.

Not so fast my friend.....Look at other models that have had significant changes is the past were they even changed the model number slightly, they are not worth more than the models before or after. For example the GMT II "fat lady", and huge change and it commands the same as models from the same era. The 3186 is such a minor change, it really means nothing.

Also, look at the Explorer II's, they now have the new 3186 and they aren't fetching more money, it's all hype. Another thought, everyone who has a late Z serial numbered GMT II can run out and switch movements with a new Explorer II, then they would have a GMT II with the 3186. Collectors are smarter than to pay more cash for a minor tweak that can be faked so easily, we all need to be smart also and stop paying extra premiums for a GMT II with the 3186. Those who did pay the ridiculous extra cash for one will never see the difference they paid compared to a buyer who bought a Z serial with the 3185 for 2 grand less. It's just not going to happen......

[Andad]

Originally Posted by karmatp

Not so fast my friend.....Look at other models that have had significant changes is the past were they even changed the model number slightly, they are not worth more than the models before or after. For example the GMT II "fat lady", and huge change and it commands the same as models from the same era. The 3186 is such a minor change, it really means nothing.

Also, look at the Explorer II's, they now have the new 3186 and they aren't fetching more money, it's all hype. Another thought, everyone who has a late Z serial numbered GMT II can run out and switch movements with a new Explorer II, then they would have a GMT II with the 3186. Collectors are smarter than to pay more cash for a minor tweak that can be faked so easily, we all need to be smart also and stop paying extra premiums for a GMT II with the 3186. Those who did pay the ridiculous extra cash for one will never see the difference they paid compared to a buyer who bought a Z serial with the 3185 for 2 grand less. It's just not going to happen......

I disagree with Trevor.

[yannis]

I think the 3186 movement firstly appeared in Z9xxxxx models! I think Trevor has a point but so far i have seen watches with the 3186 selling for anything between 6k and 10k!! I got mine for much less because i was waitinig for the right time and right place but i hope that they will eventually be collectible one day. One think i need to say is this:
Both my ceramic and my 16710 with the 3186 are way under 1 sec fast a day and i am very impressed by their accuracy...i know i may be lucky and there are older watches and movements that are capable of this though!

[Andad]

Hi Yannis,

IMO, Yes there was a batch of 3186's around Z9***** and another around M 3*****. There could have been some at Z7*****.

I like my Pepsi 3186 and my GMT TTc, both keep good time.

The 3186 with the PBS is a nice movement and that is why Rolex is using it in the new ceramic range.

And Trevor - I was only giving you my opinion when I disgreed with you - it wasn't a personal attack on you - so far.

[Gasoil4ever]

The GMT II is a very good watch anyways....

For the 3186 Hype... well it could be like all the Rolex hype, Daytona hype , Panerai hype... there all supposed to be hype... but its all long lasting hype...

And btw collectors might be starter... but if i look at the encreasing number of new members around that are all potential new collectors... there should be also an increasing number of "collectible" models... other wise loads of us will be disappointed in 30 yrs time... with nothing to collect at all LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

[yannis]

I think the 16710 will be a collectible in the long run regardless of 3185 or 3186 anyway!! Only reason i got a 3186 is because i did not pay the premium and in reality it cost me no more cash really!
My D series was due for a service so instead of paying for the service i gave this money on a brand new 16710 (still stickers on etc). Ah and around 650 bucks for a jubilee and a coke bezel!! But for the ones who actually paid the premium, i hope it will still be worth that in years to come! It will be to my benefit too!! Anyway ownership of a 16710 is about the pleasure of owning this timepiece more than anything else!

[Gasoil4ever]

For the ones who paid the premium... if it makes sense for them... then its worth it !

I am not planning to sell mine anytimes shortly, the 16710 is a pure beauty and unless an emergency it will stay on my wrist for ages.

[karmatp]

Originally Posted by directioneng

Hi Yannis,

IMO, Yes there was a batch of 3186's around Z9***** and another around M 3*****. There could have been some at Z7*****.

I like my Pepsi 3186 and my GMT TTc, both keep good time.

The 3186 with the PBS is a nice movement and that is why Rolex is using it in the new ceramic range.

And Trevor - I was only giving you my opinion when I disgreed with you - it wasn't a personal attack on you - so far.

I know Eddie, I laughed at your response. I am not one to get my feeling hurt. I just think that 40 years down the road all classic GMT II's will be collectable, it doesn't matter if your hairspring is blue or not. I do feel that buyers are being taken advantage of though when sellers are asking so much for classic GMT's, and that I find irritating.

[14060man]

Cool thing about the 3186 is that is eliminates the "wiggle slop" in the 24 hour hand when you jump the 12 hour hand.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by karmatp

I know Eddie, I laughed at your response. I am not one to get my feeling hurt. I just think that 40 years down the road all classic GMT II's will be collectable, it doesn't matter if your hairspring is blue or not. I do feel that buyers are being taken advantage of though when sellers are asking so much for classic GMT's, and that I find irritating.

Originally Posted by karmatp

You have the 3185, but be happy, you have a time proven movement. The 3186 is all bs hype, they are no more accurate or durable. The 3186 will not be more collectible in the future like some sellers would like buyers to think, it's all false hype. It' just a minor tweak on the 3186 and the 3185 is a such a amazing movement.

Originally Posted by karmatp

Not so fast my friend.....Look at other models that have had significant changes is the past were they even changed the model number slightly, they are not worth more than the models before or after. For example the GMT II "fat lady", and huge change and it commands the same as models from the same era. The 3186 is such a minor change, it really means nothing.

Also, look at the Explorer II's, they now have the new 3186 and they aren't fetching more money, it's all hype. Another thought, everyone who has a late Z serial numbered GMT II can run out and switch movements with a new Explorer II, then they would have a GMT II with the 3186. Collectors are smarter than to pay more cash for a minor tweak that can be faked so easily, we all need to be smart also and stop paying extra premiums for a GMT II with the 3186. Those who did pay the ridiculous extra cash for one will never see the difference they paid compared to a buyer who bought a Z serial with the 3185 for 2 grand less. It's just not going to happen......

Have to agree with you 100% the 3186 is nothing more than a slightly modded
3185. Which is a clone of the 3135 with the added 24 timezoze complication
and the in-house hairspring.Makes it nothing really special the 3185/6 are tested to the same spec by the Swiss COSC,and the 3185 is a well proved
movement.

[karmatp]

Originally Posted by padi56

Have to agree with you 100% the 3186 is nothing more than a slightly modded
3185. Which is a clone of the 3135 with the added 24 timezoze complication
and the in-house hairspring.Makes it nothing really special the 3185/6 are tested to the same spec by the Swiss COSC,and the 3185 is a well proved
movement.

Thanks Padi, it's always nice when someone with way more knowledge than me agrees with my replys.

[alphamale2012]

Mine is a z series and after the wobble test I found out its 3185. Either way its a awesome watch and I'm loving it.

[2careless]

Suffix to say when there is a difference in movement, be it 3185 or 3186, there is a difference in market value. Whether you like to pay $500 or $2k more for the newer movement is totally up to you.

[jasper]

How about this - when I was an absolute noob I had a look at a 16710 and was put off by the way the hands wiggled. I didn't know anything then, but I must admit I wondered if there was something wrong with the particular watch I was handling (it was brand new).

What I'm saying is that the 3186 is inherently more valuable to someone like (the old) me because it just has a higher quality feel.

What I'd really like is a 3186 equipped GMT at no premium cost. In fact, the deal at the moment would seem to be a 3186 equipped Explorer II.

[tinstar]

Originally Posted by karmatp

You have the 3185, but be happy, you have a time proven movement. The 3186 is all bs hype, they are no more accurate or durable. The 3186 will not be more collectible in the future like some sellers would like buyers to think, it's all false hype. It' just a minor tweak on the 3186 and the 3185 is a such a amazing movement.

How can you make the statement that the GMT-3186 "Will Not" be collectible in the future?
The fact is...you have no idea what will or will not be collectible in the future.

You also mention that the ExpII-3186 isn't commanding a higher price.
That's because they are STILL making them.

I would bet that RSC would be able to tell if a movement has been switched from a 3185 to 3186 just by the serial number range. Just a guess.

You MIGHT find 10 BNIB GMT-II-3186 in the whole USA. Who know's!

Don't write it in stone when there is no possible way to tell what will happen.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by karmatp

Thanks Padi, it's always nice when someone with way more knowledge than me agrees with my replys.

Says it all really.

So someone who agrees with you has way more knowledge than you and someone who disagrees with you has less knowledge.

Well,
I disagree with you both but hey what would I know compared to you guys.

I bought my 'M' new from Sleedawg on the Forum - no noticable price premium that I saw.
At the time my AD in Aus had a 'D' for sale for $1200 more than the 'M' I bought - now that is a premium for a 3185.

Among your other sweeping statements in post 2 you have advised Lion that his Pepsi Z7***** is a 3185 - has he confirmed this yet? I believe that 3186's started to appear in mid to late Z's and would like to add this information to my limited Rolex knowledge.

[karmatp]

Originally Posted by directioneng

:

Among your other sweeping statements in post 2 you have advised Lion that his Pepsi Z7***** is a 3185 - has he confirmed this yet? I believe that 3186's started to appear in mid to late Z's and would like to add this information to my limited Rolex knowledge.

Well, my Z799xxx has a 3185 so lets just assume that unless rolex was just throwing whatever movements were the closest to them in their watches, I think it's safe to say. My late Z even came with the newer GMT II booklet highlighting the new hairspring, but it came with the fantastic 3185 movement. I also have a mid Z serial GMT II that came with the old booklet, maybe I should put a 3186 in my late Z so I can make some money. Why are you trying to defend such a silly argument, fine, you think you will be able to pay for your kids college with your 3186, keep thinking that if it makes you feel better. I personally feel that no modern day rolex will be collectible like some of the less produced vintage pieces. All modern day rolex watches are so mass produced, it's just a whole different ball game. Sounds like we have lots of watch investors around here with some modern day safe queens. A change in color in a hairspring is not what collectors look for, just look at past vintage model trends and it is so obvious. That is why I tend to listen and learn from guys that have been around rolex watches for decades, I guess some people are still blinded by sales pitches and false hype.

[Andad]

Whatever.

[yannis]

Now the funny thing with my 3186 Z97xxxx is that it came with the old booklet i think!!
And it is definitely a 3186 because it passed the wiggle test...

[Andad]

I got the new booklet with my 'M' pepsi and the old booklet with my GMT II TTc.

Trevor,

Did you have a look at your movement or did you just 'test' it?

[yannis]

Eddie the earliest Z that i have seen around with a 3186 is a Z96xxxx so far, Z7xxxxx are equipped with the 3185!