32xx movement problem poll and data thread

[Doublesalto]

Bought a sd43 in may 2020
Slightly slow at start (-1/2 sec / day) and became way worse end of 2022 ( ~ -5 sec/ day minimum )
So I went to my AD ( bon marché Paris) ; they have a fast process in place for Watches under warranty
They gave me back the watch one week later !!
They were not very clear on the job done : in depth cleaning, barrel change, échappement change, …
A bit fast ( +1 sec/day) but very stable now
Overall a very impressive performance

[douglasf13]

Originally Posted by padi56

Well

Well expect now there are around 2000000 plus 32 movements in this world today, and seeing that most all Rolex watches are hard to get even with the 32 movement inside. Ask yourself this if the 32 movement is so bad as some like to portray why do they still sell everyone they make.

None of the watch media outlets will report on it, particularly since they’re all riding in the wake of the Rolex hype-train over the last five years. Plus, many buyers don’t pay attention to the time keeping of their watches, and some don’t even set their watch at all, since they’ve got a more accurate timekeeper in their pocket (or they rotate between several watches.)

[Commander C.]

Originally Posted by douglasf13

None of the watch media outlets will report on it, particularly since they’re all riding in the wake of the Rolex hype-train over the last five years.

On the other hand, the watch media love to ride the Rolex hype train with clickbait titles such as "Rolex price drop?", "Better than Rolex?", etc. I don't know why they would balk at creating a video titled "Problems with the latest Rolex movement?"

[Toshk]

Originally Posted by Commander C.

On the other hand, the watch media love to ride the Rolex hype train with clickbait titles such as "Rolex price drop?", "Better than Rolex?", etc. I don't know why they would balk at creating a video titled "Problems with the latest Rolex movement?"

Precisely! The lot of them

[csaltphoto]

Originally Posted by douglasf13

None of the watch media outlets will report on it, particularly since they’re all riding in the wake of the Rolex hype-train over the last five years. Plus, many buyers don’t pay attention to the time keeping of their watches, and some don’t even set their watch at all, since they’ve got a more accurate timekeeper in their pocket (or they rotate between several watches.)

The latter is certainly true. Many buyers just want a Rolex because of the style and hype in the last few years. A watch, after all, isn't really the time-keeping essential it once was. No wonder the super fake market is doing so well; It looks like the high end watch of your choice, who cares if it can't keep time for shit. Which leads me to the 32XX... I mean heck, if it can't keep time for shit why even buy a real Rolex? I wish Rolex would take this an existential threat to the brand, which if it really hit the mainstream it would be. Rolex is coasting on decades of reputation for rugged, reliable and accurate movements. Yet we have actual Rolex watchmakers on this forum saying they wouldn't touch a 32XX movement. THAT indicates a few problems. One is that they know something is amiss. And the other is that even with their ability to work on the movement they aren't interested in doing so with their own personal watch.

It's like exotic cars. I like them as much as the next person but if a mechanic said they would never own a particular one...

[sheldonsmith]

Originally Posted by csaltphoto

The latter is certainly true. Many buyers just want a Rolex because of the style and hype in the last few years. A watch, after all, isn't really the time-keeping essential it once was. No wonder the super fake market is doing so well; It looks like the high end watch of your choice, who cares if it can't keep time for shit. Which leads me to the 32XX... I mean heck, if it can't keep time for shit why even buy a real Rolex? I wish Rolex would take this an existential threat to the brand, which if it really hit the mainstream it would be. Rolex is coasting on decades of reputation for rugged, reliable and accurate movements. Yet we have actual Rolex watchmakers on this forum saying they wouldn't touch a 32XX movement. THAT indicates a few problems. One is that they know something is amiss. And the other is that even with their ability to work on the movement they aren't interested in doing so with their own personal watch.

It's like exotic cars. I like them as much as the next person but if a mechanic said they would never own a particular one...

Amen!

[swexlin]

My 2021 DSSD is still at RSC NY - 5 weeks now, for this issue, hopefully comes back soon.

As an interesting side note: I have a 2022 Tudor GMT Diet Pepsi, and a 2022 Tudor BB 925. Both purchased from AD in Feb 22. Until 2 weeks ago, both ran about +1 or 2 spd fast.

Now, they both are running -6 to 8 slow. What the actual EFF?

Not dropped, bumped, zip. Wearing habits the same. The 925 is worse, I may take it back to the AD for warranty service. How do they run excellent for a year, and then suddenly go slow.

[dchernikoff]

Originally Posted by swexlin

My 2021 DSSD is still at RSC NY - 5 weeks now, for this issue, hopefully comes back soon.

As an interesting side note: I have a 2022 Tudor GMT Diet Pepsi, and a 2022 Tudor BB 925. Both purchased from AD in Feb 22. Until 2 weeks ago, both ran about +1 or 2 spd fast.

Now, they both are running -6 to 8 slow. What the actual EFF?

Not dropped, bumped, zip. Wearing habits the same. The 925 is worse, I may take it back to the AD for warranty service. How do they run excellent for a year, and then suddenly go slow.

Lubrication problem, perhaps? Not enough, or improperly applied, so it disappated (or whatever lubricating oil does in a watch over time)?

-Dan

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by padi56

Well

Well expect now there are around 2000000 plus 32 movements in this world today, and seeing that most all Rolex watches are hard to get even with the 32 movement inside. Ask yourself this if the 32 movement is so bad as some like to portray why do they still sell everyone they make.

Instagram sheeple gobbling up the latest and greatest is precisely zero indication of the quality under the hood. You do realize a RSC watchmaker forum member stated he wouldn’t own one just yet, “too many problems,” I recall were his exact words.

[Tridor]

Originally Posted by padi56

Well

Well expect now there are around 2000000 plus 32 movements in this world today, and seeing that most all Rolex watches are hard to get even with the 32 movement inside. Ask yourself this if the 32 movement is so bad as some like to portray why do they still sell everyone they make.

Perhaps it is because approximately 99.99% of those buyers simply want a Rolex as a status symbol or piece of jewelry. They aren't concerned about accuracy and precision like us WIS's.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by csaltphoto

The latter is certainly true. Many buyers just want a Rolex because of the style and hype in the last few years. A watch, after all, isn't really the time-keeping essential it once was. No wonder the super fake market is doing so well; It looks like the high end watch of your choice, who cares if it can't keep time for shit. Which leads me to the 32XX... I mean heck, if it can't keep time for shit why even buy a real Rolex? I wish Rolex would take this an existential threat to the brand, which if it really hit the mainstream it would be. Rolex is coasting on decades of reputation for rugged, reliable and accurate movements. Yet we have actual Rolex watchmakers on this forum saying they wouldn't touch a 32XX movement. THAT indicates a few problems. One is that they know something is amiss. And the other is that even with their ability to work on the movement they aren't interested in doing so with their own personal watch.

It's like exotic cars. I like them as much as the next person but if a mechanic said they would never own a particular one...

Agreed.
There's plenty of other far more pleasurable pursuits to waste our time and money on

[swexlin]

Originally Posted by dchernikoff

Lubrication problem, perhaps? Not enough, or improperly applied, so it disappated (or whatever lubricating oil does in a watch over time)?

-Dan

Yes, I'm stumped. I can see if the watches had been sitting for a long time, but they are in regular rotation.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Easy E

You do realize a RSC watchmaker forum member stated he wouldn’t own one just yet, “too many problems,” I recall were his exact words.

That's what he posted on 27/02/2023:

"I'm not buying a 32×× Rolex anytime soon, 31×× is still quite a bit more reliable. Unfortunately there's still issues with this movement…"

[Tridor]

Was having a discussion about the 32xx with an AD yesterday. He admitted, off the record, that they had seen an inordinate amount of warranty work on those movements. When I told him that I wasn't a fan of the 32xx, he said "I'm not, either." Of course, he and I agreed that we "never had this conversation."

[TheVTCGuy]

I have an $18 quartz Casio that is more accurate then my Rolex. I still like the Rolex better

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

I have an $18 quartz Casio that is more accurate then my Rolex. I still like the Rolex better

Paul, you still have not started your timegrapher course with Charles. He also offers English

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

I have an $18 quartz Casio that is more accurate then my Rolex. I still like the Rolex better

I will be happy to give lessons in the use of a TimeGrapher.

But ………. I will have to be very strict though.

I would only grant you your diploma after you prove that you can take data readings with PRECISION and your your graphs were ACCURATE.

[JMGoodnight369]

I just got back my 124060 from RSC NYC on Thursday. It was up there since February first. I got the watch back in February 22 brand new from the AD and it ran slow out of the box. About -4.5 if I wore it 24/7 and kept -2.5 if I rested dial up. I took it by RSC when I was there on a trip to have them regulate it and they told me the bad news that it had low amplitude and needed a service. The associate said it was around 200 in dial up. I don’t have a timegrapher but I do use the watch tracker app and I saw that watch consistently lose time from the day I got it. I’ll post up some data from the app in a week or two. It’s such a bummer these watches run like this. My 126610LV is a weird one to track too. Sometimes it’s dead on gaining zero a day and then some days it will randomly drop even though I wear it the same. I’ve considered trading back to 31xx watches but I think I’m gonna hold out and hope they find a fix. The upgrades from the 11 series subs are worth it to me in both looks and wear.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

I will be happy to give lessons in the use of a TimeGrapher.

But ………. I will have to be very strict though.

I would only grant you your diploma after you prove that you can take data readings with PRECISION and your your graphs were ACCURATE.

OK, sounds great!

How do I hook up the timegraper to my Casio?

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

OK, sounds great!

How do I hook up the timegraper to my Casio?

Scotch will usually help with everything.

I, of course, mean the sticky tape variant not the delightful nectar.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

How do I hook up the timegraper to my Casio?

Very easy, use a Quartzmaster.

Under accessories one finds what you also need: "a battery dummy set".



https://www.witschi.com/en/products/quartzmaster-2/

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by JMGoodnight369

I just got back my 124060 from RSC NYC on Thursday. It was up there since February first. I got the watch back in February 22 brand new from the AD and it ran slow out of the box. About -4.5 if I wore it 24/7 and kept -2.5 if I rested dial up. I took it by RSC when I was there on a trip to have them regulate it and they told me the bad news that it had low amplitude and needed a service. The associate said it was around 200 in dial up. I don’t have a timegrapher but I do use the watch tracker app and I saw that watch consistently lose time from the day I got it. I’ll post up some data from the app in a week or two. It’s such a bummer these watches run like this. My 126610LV is a weird one to track too. Sometimes it’s dead on gaining zero a day and then some days it will randomly drop even though I wear it the same. I’ve considered trading back to 31xx watches but I think I’m gonna hold out and hope they find a fix. The upgrades from the 11 series subs are worth it to me in both looks and wear.

The 3230 movement (introduced in 2020) of your 124060 Submariner (no date) had low amplitude (200 degrees in DU after full winding) only 12 months after purchase in February 2022?

What are the amplitude and rate values now after repair?

[JMGoodnight369]

Originally Posted by saxo3

The 3230 movement (introduced in 2020) of your 124060 Submariner (no date) had low amplitude (200 degrees in DU after full winding) only 12 months after purchase in February 2022?

What are the amplitude and rate values now after repair?

It had low amplitude after 8 months of owning it. I had taken two trips to NYC Rolex service. The first being back in October of 2022 and that’s when I took it in thinking it just needed a regulation. That’s when they told me it had the low amplitudes. Low 200s. So they regulated it and gave it back and said if it gets slow again to bring it back. It did within 3 months so I dropped it off February 1. Got it back this past Thursday with no information other than “check movement” on the service slip. I don’t have a timegrapher to record amplitude but I’ve been tracking it the past couple days and it’s at +1.1 since Thursday afternoon. That’s wearing about 14-16 hours and resting DU

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by JMGoodnight369

It had low amplitude after 8 months of owning it. I had taken two trips to NYC Rolex service. The first being back in October of 2022 and that’s when I took it in thinking it just needed a regulation. That’s when they told me it had the low amplitudes. Low 200s. So they regulated it and gave it back and said if it gets slow again to bring it back. It did within 3 months so I dropped it off February 1. Got it back this past Thursday with no information other than “check movement” on the service slip. I don’t have a timegrapher to record amplitude but I’ve been tracking it the past couple days and it’s at +1.1 since Thursday afternoon. That’s wearing about 14-16 hours and resting DU

Thanks for the clarification, it is even worse than I thought.

Don't you think it is worth to spend about 200.- USD for a timegrapher and check your watch now (after repair) and every few months later?

I'm pretty sure RSC NY could not fix the problem, just my opinion.

[SearChart]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Thanks for the clarification, it is even worse than I thought.

I knew it was worse than we thought when 32xx's come in and have no wear at all, yet run terrible.
Or when you serviced one and it's perfectly lubricated, yet it cannot even reach 200 degrees fully wound dial up...

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by SearChart

I knew it was worse than we thought when 32xx's come in and have no wear at all, yet run terrible.

Understood, you wrote that (no visible wear) in your thread "Taking a look at the 3235" (post 256).

Originally Posted by SearChart

Or when you serviced one and it's perfectly lubricated, yet it cannot even reach 200 degrees fully wound dial up...

Very interesting, this I have never heard. You say that you had a freshly serviced (repaired) 3230 movement which cannot reach 200 degrees in DU position after full winding? The amplitudes in the three vertical positions then are only 160-180 degrees?

I am very surprised. What is your explanation? Did you also measure so low amplitudes for a 3235, 3285, or 3255 after a service?

[JMGoodnight369]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Understood, you wrote that (no visible wear) in your thread "Taking a look at the 3235" (post 256).


Very interesting, this I have never heard. You say that you had a freshly serviced (repaired) 3230 movement which cannot reach 200 degrees in DU position after full winding? The amplitudes in the three vertical positions then are only 160-180 degrees?

I am very surprised. What is your explanation? Did you also measure so low amplitudes for a 3235, 3285, or 3255 after a service?

Yeah I’ll actually look at them to buy. I avoided back when I started collecting as I’m one of those people that get obsessive with keeping track of accuracy so I knew getting a timegrapher would be a black hole for me. It would be handy to have with two 32xx movements. Also I agree with you that they probably didn’t fix it. I’m sure it was just a bandaid. I spoke with a watchmaker here in Ga last year. Charlie Shi is his name and he had a very long career (30+ years) and a watchmaker and then went out on his own. Anyway I had a long conversation with him about the 32xx and he absolutely hates them and said it’ll never work. Apparently Patek gave the chronenergy escapement a shot back in the 70s and it only last one reference and then they abandoned it. I know a lot on here talk about it being lubricant based issues but he argued that it is the design of the pallet fork and jewels. He actually showed me a photo of one he had worked on and it looked to be there was chips on the escapement wheel. I’ll see if I can find that photo still

[SearChart]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Understood, you wrote that (no visible wear) in your thread "Taking a look at the 3235" (post 256).


Very interesting, this I have never heard. You say that you had a freshly serviced (repaired) 3230 movement which cannot reach 200 degrees in DU position after full winding? The amplitudes in the three vertical positions then are only 160-180 degrees?

I am very surprised. What is your explanation? Did you also measure so low amplitudes for a 3235, 3285, or 3255 after a service?

Not specific to the 3230, I've unfortunately seen this on all types. Amplitude is checked before the date mechanism is assembled.

The plan of action is to start with replacing the balance staff, then pallet fork, escape wheel, rest of the gear train.
Pallet fork and balance staff replacement usually get me enough amplitude to barely reach tolerance...

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by SearChart

The plan of action is to start with replacing the balance staff, then pallet fork, escape wheel, rest of the gear train.
Pallet fork and balance staff replacement usually get me enough amplitude to barely reach tolerance...

OMG, so you first dismantle the entire movement, clean everything in an ultrasound bath, then re-assemble with 'perfect' lubrications, then measure too low amplitudes and afterwards you must change one piece/component after the other (although you do not see any signs of wear) until you get acceptable amplitudes? Is that what you have to do?

Barely reach tolerances? What are the amplitude tolerances (H- and V- positions) after a service? I am curious to know these numbers (for my 32xx watches, two need a repair).

Bas, many thanks for all these information and explications, very interesting and much appreciated.

[EEpro]

Well if there was any doubt at all. Geez.