Dear Rolex: You are a Joke

[wb55]

Originally Posted by dmash

How long do you guys think until ADs start stocking these (essentially, no more lists)? 5 years?

Get a job with Hodinkee and you'll have one before even someone who has bought 100 PM watches does and your choice of colour.

[nick h]

i recently enquired about a white ceramic Daytona with my AD

as i have spent over £20K with them in the last year i was put on the 'priority list' and should get my watch within one year

and ten years is realistic in the Uk if you are not on such lists

what the AD told me was that their allocation of 'high demand' watches was based on how many non high demand watches they sell

they get no warning of an incoming Daytona or whether white/black it just arrives

edit - the AD knows i will not 'flip' the watch which with them counts for a lot

[Hpozzuoli]

Not sure if their business model is helping my collection or hurting it. Possibly helping keep the value up, but sure makes me mad when I can't get something. I get the supply and demand mantra, but something about a person that runs out buys the newest thing only to sell it for a few bucks more because nobody can get one. Reminds of Xmas time with those eggs that break open that my daughter wanted.

[lig]

Rolex is managing this better than Panerai. I've tried unsuccessfully for 6 years now to get a bronze Luminor in any flavor at something close to MSRP.

Not happening. It's turned me off to the brand completely.

With diligence and a broad network I got my 116500 in 6 months from an AD at MSRP.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by nick h

edit - the AD knows i will not 'flip' the watch which with them counts for a lot

Interestingly, or not, my AD knows I tend to buy and sell constantly. With hard to get pieces he just asks if I could try to keep them for at least 6 months lol

[Simon_e]

Originally Posted by nick h

they get no warning of an incoming Daytona or whether white/black it just arrives

SS Daytonas do show on allocations. When I bought my wife an 18k Rolex last week I said that I wanted a ss daytona white dial and the AD showed me his allocation had one coming in a few days later. I bought it today.

I believe that they MAY get some extras without notification - that's what I had always heard.

[Basque1]

Supply and demand manipulation on Rolex's part... not a fan of this

[benvh]

How would you guys feel if they had come out with the the new ceramic Daytona with a price increase of ~25% but they were also readily available? Do you think more or less would have sold over the last year? Would you be happier to purchase from Rolex if that was their strategy, even if the MSRP was higher and matched the current gray market pricing?

(I'm not insinuating anything, just generally curious)

Ben

[wb55]

Originally Posted by benvh

How would you guys feel if they had come out with the the new ceramic Daytona with a price increase of ~25% but they were also readily available? Do you think more or less would have sold over the last year? Would you be happier to purchase from Rolex if that was their strategy, even if the MSRP was higher and matched the current gray market pricing?

(I'm not insinuating anything, just generally curious)

Ben

Rolex don't need money, they don't need to give the Daytona a 25% increase. It's more appealing to allow the best customers of their network of ADs to be allowed the gift of being allowed to purchase a Daytona.

Remember, owning a Daytona is not a big deal, but paying MSRP from an AD for your SS Daytona makes you a big deal. Big difference.

[benvh]

Rolex definitely does want as much money as possible and that's what drives this strategy. I was more trying to gage the level of annoyance of loyal Rolex customers between the current situation and a Daytona that costs significantly more but is available. AKA would a price increase upset people as much or more than the planned low availability of the same model? I'm sure those who spend a ton at ADs like it, but that's the minority.

Ben

Originally Posted by wb55

Rolex don't need money, they don't need to give the Daytona a 25% increase. It's more appealing to allow the best customers of their network of ADs to be allowed the gift of being allowed to purchase a Daytona.

Remember, owning a Daytona is not a big deal, but paying MSRP from an AD for your SS Daytona makes you a big deal. Big difference.

[tamiya]

Originally Posted by benvh

Rolex definitely does want as much money as possible and that's what drives this strategy. I was more trying to gage the level of annoyance of loyal Rolex customers between the current situation and a Daytona that costs significantly more but is available. AKA would a price increase upset people as much or more than the planned low availability of the same model? I'm sure those who spend a ton at ADs like it, but that's the minority.

At what risk to losing the "rare" cachet?

If it's no longer seen as desirable due to rarity, demand might just plummet & sales get hit more than any price increase would make up for.

[dnpina]

"Remember, owning a Daytona is not a big deal, but paying MSRP from an AD for your SS Daytona makes you a big deal. Big difference."

You got that exactly right.


Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[Watch This]

Originally Posted by wb55

Remember, owning a Daytona is not a big deal, but paying MSRP from an AD for your SS Daytona makes you a big deal. Big difference.

Greatest line I have read on this forum to date. So true.

[benvh]

I'm 100% with you. I figure they've determined that "rareness" and how it drives exclusiveness and brand image makes them more money in the long run than selling more of them or raising the price. If they could make more money as a company by selling it for $1k more or making many more, they would.

Ben

Originally Posted by tamiya

At what risk to losing the "rare" cachet?

If it's no longer seen as desirable due to rarity, demand might just plummet & sales get hit more than any price increase would make up for.

[Singslinger]

Originally Posted by porschejeff

Isn't this the same as what Ferrari does? They produce only so many. Very difficult to buy one new without a long long wait and paying a premium over MSRP.

I'm not saying I approve of this, but this is what creates their image.

The same applies to popular Patek models. There's a new pilot's watch, ref 5524 that is apparently difficult to get, which inevitably means a long waiting period for those who want it. And it costs US$45,000 in Spore.

Bottom line - every company has a right to decide how much it wants to produce and how to preserve its brand/mystique/ value. Rolex is no different and it's perfectly legitimate commercial behaviour.

[Rashid.bk]

Generally speaking I see nothing wrong with Rolex.
Also, the ADs are likely more to blame for this than Rolex directly. I could see many snobby sales people attempt to feel important or make their dealership feel more high end by telling you stories meanwhile legitimately holding on to watches for legitimate frequent high dollar customers.

But even that may be understandable, wouldn't you want to keep a confirmed loyal customer coming back and offering this "benefit" versus having some one just passing through get "lucky" with one in stock but will never be back again.

Sure, we can say Rolex creates the issue with low production...but then we are talking about luxury items, prestige and "status"....Hermes does the exact same thing with Birken bags, Patek is even worse.

Now the GT350 business is absurd imo, it's not a money or luxury issue, it's an abuse on the enthusiast because that vehicle is relatively affordable, but the deslerships, not Ford create the problem.
It seems to be the norm now...and where the rich don't mind paying for exclusivity and the super rich get exclusivity offered for free as a "sponsor" type relationship (consider an exclusive reservation only restaurant "making" a table for Steven Spielberg and it's benefits)...
the only ones who get abused and used is the middle class. Even the Golf R has mark ups bs as well as the new Civic Type R....and who's buying that...Lewis Hamilton....nope...average car dude, true believer enthusiast who would never get an allocation for a 911R or may not even know what an "allocation" at a dealership is.

The consumer/business relationship has been flipped with the advent of social media and technology....we do it to ourselves now. We start yapping and posting all over IG, FB, forums emails, snapchat and create this consumer frenzy which is free advertising and publicity for the market, the Brand sees this and prices and produces it accordinly. Businesses see this and price accordingly as well....
Thank your cell phones mostly for this...it will only get worse from here.

[Syed117]

Originally Posted by Rashid.bk

Generally speaking I see nothing wrong with Rolex.
Also, the ADs are likely more to blame for this than Rolex directly. I could see many snobby sales people attempt to feel important or make their dealership feel more high end by telling you stories meanwhile legitimately holding on to watches for legitimate frequent high dollar customers.

But even that may be understandable, wouldn't you want to keep a confirmed loyal customer coming back and offering this "benefit" versus having some one just passing through get "lucky" with one in stock but will never be back again.

Sure, we can say Rolex creates the issue with low production...but then we are talking about luxury items, prestige and "status"....Hermes does the exact same thing with Birken bags, Patek is even worse.

Now the GT350 business is absurd imo, it's not a money or luxury issue, it's an abuse on the enthusiast because that vehicle is relatively affordable, but the deslerships, not Ford create the problem.
It seems to be the norm now...and where the rich don't mind paying for exclusivity and the super rich get exclusivity offered for free as a "sponsor" type relationship (consider an exclusive reservation only restaurant "making" a table for Steven Spielberg and it's benefits)...
the only ones who get abused and used is the middle class. Even the Golf R has mark ups bs as well as the new Civic Type R....and who's buying that...Lewis Hamilton....nope...average car dude, true believer enthusiast who would never get an allocation for a 911R or may not even know what an "allocation" at a dealership is.

The consumer/business relationship has been flipped with the advent of social media and technology....we do it to ourselves now. We start yapping and posting all over IG, FB, forums emails, snapchat and create this consumer frenzy which is free advertising and publicity for the market, the Brand sees this and prices and produces it accordinly. Businesses see this and price accordingly as well....
Thank your cell phones mostly for this...it will only get worse from here.

My brother was lucky enough to get a GT350 after searching for a year.

He ended up paying 2k over msrp.

[Analysing You]

Originally Posted by wb55

Rolex don't need money, they don't need to give the Daytona a 25% increase. It's more appealing to allow the best customers of their network of ADs to be allowed the gift of being allowed to purchase a Daytona.

Remember, owning a Daytona is not a big deal, but paying MSRP from an AD for your SS Daytona makes you a big deal. Big difference.

Spot on!

[nick h]

Originally Posted by Simon_e

SS Daytonas do show on allocations. When I bought my wife an 18k Rolex last week I said that I wanted a ss daytona white dial and the AD showed me his allocation had one coming in a few days later. I bought it today.

I believe that they MAY get some extras without notification - that's what I had always heard.

i find that very strange?

you imply you got a ceramic Daytona basically on demand?

strange AD who does not have high priority customers on the waiting list or are you implying that by spending 18K you have jumped to the top of the queue?

in fact i have spent over £25K in the last year with my AD so i should perhaps show him your post?

[Muzz]

Originally Posted by nick h

i find that very strange?

you imply you got a ceramic Daytona basically on demand?

strange AD who does not have high priority customers on the waiting list or are you implying that by spending 18K you have jumped to the top of the queue?

in fact i have spent over £25K in the last year with my AD so i should perhaps show him your post?

Maybe there wasn't a waiting list? Also 25k at an AD isn't that much in the big picture unfortunately.

[Old Geezer]

Originally Posted by Syed117

My brother was lucky enough to get a GT350 after searching for a year.

He ended up paying 2k over msrp.

If he is happy, that is all that maters.

I shopped a Ford Raptor truck recently. The one I was looking at has been sitting at the dealer over 2 months. It has a $4K ADP (Additional Dealer Profit) added to the base price because it is in such "high" demand. Sitting around months in the front row unsold doesn't equate to high demand for me but whatever, I'm sure someone will eventually come by and buy with the mark up and whatever else BS the dealer piles on. It just wont be me. I'll probably never own the Daytona C either because I'm not willing to pay grey prices and don't rank much favor with AD.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Old Geezer

If he is happy, that is all that maters.

I shopped a Ford Raptor truck recently. The one I was looking at has been sitting at the dealer over 2 months. It has a $4K ADP (Additional Dealer Profit) added to the base price because it is in such "high" demand. Sitting around months in the front row unsold doesn't equate to high demand for me but whatever, I'm sure someone will eventually come by and buy with the mark up and whatever else BS the dealer piles on. It just wont be me. I'll probably never own the Daytona C either because I'm not willing to pay grey prices and don't rank much favor with AD.

2018 raptors can be had at sticker with a few phone calls.

[aandrianto]

2-3 years is fine but 7-8 years is impossible :(

[nick h]

Originally Posted by Muzz

Maybe there wasn't a waiting list? Also 25k at an AD isn't that much in the big picture unfortunately.

no waiting list for a ceramic Daytona in the UK - you have a good sense of humour?

i'd disagree as would my AD - £25K in a year is a hell of a lot on money on Rolex watches

[Zakalwe]

Originally Posted by Muzz

Maybe there wasn't a waiting list? Also 25k at an AD isn't that much in the big picture unfortunately.

I've been on a few jaunts recently to several AD's both in London and relatively out of the way. Minimum wait, at least for an average Joe like me is 7 years.

Originally Posted by nick h

no waiting list for a ceramic Daytona in the UK - you have a good sense of humour?

i'd disagree as would my AD - £25K in a year is a hell of a lot on money on Rolex watches

In no way winding you up, but having already spent £25k the AD has little incentive to prioritise you (and I agree with you it is a decent wedge) precisely because you've already spent it.

If I read the other guy correctly, he went in to buy a PM with the proviso that he also get a Daytona, otherwise no dice. So basically the AD could either make a £30k sale there and then (whatever the PM cost plus the Daytona) or the AD gets nothing.

In that scenario the AD's actions make sense.

[Muzz]

Originally Posted by nick h

no waiting list for a ceramic Daytona in the UK - you have a good sense of humour?

i'd disagree as would my AD - £25K in a year is a hell of a lot on money on Rolex watches

The no wait list comment was sarcasm however the 25k comment was not. 25k at my AD would absolutely not secure you on a hard to get item.

Many people spend in excess of 250k annually on watches. Usually there are at least 5 people that fall in to that category in each AD.

Then there are the dealers that spend in excess of 1000K annually through ADs. So do you think that 25k is really that much?

Every watch you see on the grey market came from an AD. If you have to spend 100k to get a Daytona (usually taking less favourable pieces in the package) then how would selling a Daytona to a 25k customer be a fantastic opportunity for the AD? He already sold the 25k customer a piece and would rather keep the Daytona to sweeten the pot for the grey dealer.

This is how it works. Love it or hate it this is the reality.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by Simon_e

SS Daytonas do show on allocations. When I bought my wife an 18k Rolex last week I said that I wanted a ss daytona white dial and the AD showed me his allocation had one coming in a few days later. I bought it today.

I believe that they MAY get some extras without notification - that's what I had always heard.

I assume you have a very good and longterm ongoing relationship with your AD - you only decided last week you wanted a Daytona C, and you got one this week?

[nick h]

Originally Posted by Muzz

The no wait list comment was sarcasm however the 25k comment was not. 25k at my AD would absolutely not secure you on a hard to get item.

Many people spend in excess of 250k annually on watches. Usually there are at least 5 people that fall in to that category in each AD.

Then there are the dealers that spend in excess of 1000K annually through ADs. So do you think that 25k is really that much?

Every watch you see on the grey market came from an AD. If you have to spend 100k to get a Daytona (usually taking less favourable pieces in the package) then how would selling a Daytona to a 25k customer be a fantastic opportunity for the AD? He already sold the 25k customer a piece and would rather keep the Daytona to sweeten the pot for the grey dealer.

This is how it works. Love it or hate it this is the reality.

interesting, but is totally unlike the world in the north of England

maybe true in major US cities and Middle/Far east etc?

my AD is a small family owned business with two shops - i know them well and they will never sell to the grey market nor will they accept above RRP offers to get a 'desirable'watch

they know all their regular customers at a personal level

also with allocations such as the Daytona ceramic they look at purchase history of customers

for example those who only ever buy 'desirable' watches are down the list from those who buy 'other' Rolex watches

flipping would see you never again get another 'desirable' watch

old fashioned you may say but its based on old British values of integrity and respect between both parties

[nick h]

Originally Posted by Russell996

I assume you have a very good and longterm ongoing relationship with your AD - you only decided last week you wanted a Daytona C, and you got one this week?

i honestly find that very difficult to understand?

not doubting the OP but it is a bit strange given UK 'waiting times'

probably some poor sod on the list was 'bumped down' by an AD with no principles?

[Simon_e]

Originally Posted by nick h

i find that very strange?

you imply you got a ceramic Daytona basically on demand?

strange AD who does not have high priority customers on the waiting list or are you implying that by spending 18K you have jumped to the top of the queue?

in fact i have spent over £25K in the last year with my AD so i should perhaps show him your post?

It depends what you bought £25k on ss sports rolex is very different to spending £25k on a precious metal watch.....thats what got me the daytona, not sales value but type of sale, dealers can sell ss sports easy, its the precious metal thats harder and thats when you get rewarded.

Yes I got one on demand if I paid full price for a PM watch, the deal came about when I explained that I could buy the watch new far cheaper elsewhere and maybe we could do a deal with a hard to get Rolex and no discount on the PM.

He established that I was a collector so i am sure that had a lot to do with it too - no flipping it to a grey dealer.

Dealers keep SS Daytonas in the safe. If you were to walk into an AD and say you will buy a platinum daytona if you can have a ss daytona at the same time then I bet you they have one in stock........

I am sure you will get one, you will just wait a little longer. Hold in there, they are worth the wait.