32xx movement problem poll and data thread

[maratka]

Originally Posted by saxo3

I disagree.

An observed accuracy of about +1 s/d does not mean that a 32xx caliber is healthy. We have shown (with data) and discussed this fact already many times in this thread.

A 32xx watch can still run very accurately although the caliber suffers from too low amplitudes, this is measurable (with a timegrapher) after full winding (t = 0) and at t = 24 hours.

The main observables are the caliber amplitudes in all 3 vertical watch positions. By opening the caseback you have no chance to 'see' that.

I agree with you that +1 s/d is a 'fine performance'.

I installed the Timegrapher app on my iOS phone and can take measurements for the community. Please tell me how to do it correctly. The app indicates that it is too noisy (but it's actually quiet) and where is the best place to place the watch. I will share my results with the community.

[saxo3]

Posts (only this thread) about timegrapher apps (not recommended by me!) 129, 893

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by maratka

Yes, I bought them from an authorized dealer a week ago. These are new watches.

Originally Posted by maratka

I'm more interested in ensuring that the mechanism is in good condition and not wearing out (lubrication, parts, etc.), rather than just correcting this inaccuracy. Honestly, I don't want to deal with such positioning. But the most important thing for me is that the mechanism is in good condition. My friend really scared me.

Did your friend scare you before or after you purchased this piece? Not that it really matters at this point. If you are truly concerned take the watch to the AD and let them put it on their timegrapher, 5 pos test. This will do two things for you dead away. 1. It will tell you more conclusively the state of affairs with your watch. 2. It will also give you a baseline data set to tell how well your phone app is reading.

[maratka]

Originally Posted by Easy E

Did your friend scare you before or after you purchased this piece? Not that it really matters at this point. If you are truly concerned take the watch to the AD and let them put it on their timegrapher, 5 pos test. This will do two things for you dead away. 1. It will tell you more conclusively the state of affairs with your watch. 2. It will also give you a baseline data set to tell how well your phone app is reading.

He is the owner of a service center in another country. Even before the purchase, he told me I should get the 31xx, but I specifically wanted a new watch from an authorized dealer.

[Easy E]

Here is an example of why just say you are running at +1 dial up is inconclusive. These readings were taken in Jan24. You can see dial up is great +1.9, but 9up is way off, the amplitudes are out of spec in the verticals.

[nikola0406]

After 26h DU amplitude is still around 270-264, rate is 0, +1s.

[nikola0406]

Originally Posted by Easy E

Here is an example of why just say you are running at +1 dial up is inconclusive. These readings were taken in Jan24. You can see dial up is great +1.9, but 9up is way off, the amplitudes are out of spec in the verticals.

Is this after a full wind or after 24h? :(

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by nikola0406

Is this after a full wind or after 24h? :(

After 24 hours, see post #4661.
Watch 126610LV, caliber 3235, bought 05/2023.

The 3 vertical amplitudes were already too low when EasyE measured with his timegrapher on 30.07.2023, so about 2-3 months after purchase!

[nikola0406]

Friend bought brand new OP his amplitude is DU 258, after 24h 252

[maratka]

Originally Posted by Easy E

Here is an example of why just say you are running at +1 dial up is inconclusive. These readings were taken in Jan24. You can see dial up is great +1.9, but 9up is way off, the amplitudes are out of spec in the verticals.

Did you write this to me? I agree with you; I'll check the amplitude after 24 hours tomorrow.

[nikola0406]

After 36h DU 255, CD 225. Rate the same 0, +1. Time for testing is done for now. Time to Explore :)

[maratka]

I took the measurements after 36 hours (I couldn't do it after 24 hours). I used the headphone microphone. Honestly, I was encouraged by the results. However, I should note that the watch was in the DU position the entire time, and they have an accuracy of +2 seconds per day over the last 5 days.

Summerise After 36 Hours:
DU 220
DD 212
12U 248
6U 264
3U 258
9U 260

[nikola0406]

Vertical positions gave higher amplitude or am I missing something? :)

[maratka]

Originally Posted by nikola0406

Vertical positions gave higher amplitude or am I missing something? :)

I didn't understand it either, but I don't have a professional device.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by maratka

I took the measurements after 36 hours (I couldn't do it after 24 hours). I used the headphone microphone. Honestly, I was encouraged by the results. However, I should note that the watch was in the DU position the entire time, and they have an accuracy of +2 seconds per day over the last 5 days.

Summerise After 36 Hours:
DU 220
DD 212
12U 248
6U 264
3U 258
9U 260

All four vertical amplitudes are HIGHER than the two horizontal amplitudes.

The data is complete garbage and proves that apps (can) deliver completely wrong results, some users don't understand their data, and others are resistant to advice.

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by maratka

I didn't understand it either, but I don't have a professional device.

$200 on Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/OTOOLWORLD-Co...ps%2C74&sr=8-2


As I stated earlier, take your watch to an AD that has an in -house watchmaker. Let them run the 5 position test and get their readings. Hold on to those and check back with them in 6 mos to a year. Or get a cheap tester, ditch the app. If you are really worried about your watch.

[Easy E]

I have a BLNR purchased 7/19 that the warranty is about to roll off. Actually looking quite good still.

[maratka]

Originally Posted by Easy E

$200 on Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/OTOOLWORLD-Co...ps%2C74&sr=8-2


As I stated earlier, take your watch to an AD that has an in -house watchmaker. Let them run the 5 position test and get their readings. Hold on to those and check back with them in 6 mos to a year. Or get a cheap tester, ditch the app. If you are really worried about your watch.

I did it because it was at hand. I will go to a watchmaker, but that will be next month, unfortunately, I don't have time now.

[maratka]

Originally Posted by saxo3

All four vertical amplitudes are HIGHER than the two horizontal amplitudes.

The data is complete garbage and proves that apps (can) deliver completely wrong results, some users don't understand their data, and others are resistant to advice.

That's why I haven't voted yet :)

[nikola0406]

Was there any recorded case of 32xx with amplitude 300?

[Pepperjack]

Originally Posted by nikola0406

Was there any recorded case of 32xx with amplitude 300?

An amplitude of 300 degrees is realistic during and post-service.

[nikola0406]

And for a new watch?

[Pepperjack]

Originally Posted by nikola0406

And for a new watch?

Someone else would have to answer that one; I only see watches with problems. Theoretically, a new watch should have amplitudes comparable to a freshly serviced watch.

[nikola0406]

I have seen 5 of them brand new, with amplitude range from 260-280 lift angle 53. None was even close to 300. That is why I ask.

[maratka]

Originally Posted by Easy E

$200 on Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/OTOOLWORLD-Co...ps%2C74&sr=8-2


As I stated earlier, take your watch to an AD that has an in -house watchmaker. Let them run the 5 position test and get their readings. Hold on to those and check back with them in 6 mos to a year. Or get a cheap tester, ditch the app. If you are really worried about your watch.

I placed an order; the timegrapher should arrive next week.

[nikola0406]

Good thing is that for example this one, after 60h have great a daily rate despite low amplitude

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Easy E

I have a BLNR purchased 7/19 that the warranty is about to roll off. Actually looking quite good still.

I was already waiting for it

Originally Posted by maratka

That's why I haven't voted yet :)

Originally Posted by nikola0406

Was there any recorded case of 32xx with amplitude 300?

The highest value I have ever seen was 293° (DU) and 289° (DD), which I measured (with a professional timegrapher) for my SD43 (3235); watch was running fast (X = +4.3 s/d).

Originally Posted by Pepperjack

An amplitude of 300 degrees is realistic during and post-service.

Short answer, no for any 32xx movement.

Originally Posted by nikola0406

And for a new watch?

No difference.

Originally Posted by nikola0406

I have seen 5 of them brand new, with amplitude range from 260-280 lift angle 53. None was even close to 300.

Correct, I confirm 260°-280° in horizontal positions.

Originally Posted by maratka

I placed an order; the timegrapher should arrive next week.

Good, your best post (so far); just kidding (sort of).

Originally Posted by nikola0406

Good thing is that for example this one, after 60h have great a daily rate despite low amplitude

Please, delete this app and use an inexpensive timegrapher!

[nikola0406]

No I will not, because this app is great. I have compare its data with a professional timegrapher numerous times and it was scary close. Only beat error was always shown as higher. But rate and amplitude were super close. So thanks, but no :)

[Pepperjack]

Originally Posted by saxo3

The highest value I have ever seen was 293° (DU) and 289° (DD), which I measured (with a professional timegrapher) for my SD43 (3235); watch was running fast (X = +4.3 s/d).

Short answer, no for any 32xx movement.

While I won't claim it's common to see 300, I will say that it is an amplitude I have seen once or twice during preliminary & final timing during a 32xx service. It's typically between 270 to 280.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Pepperjack

While I won't claim it's common to see 300, I will say that it is an amplitude I have seen once or twice during preliminary & final timing during a 32xx service. It's typically between 270 to 280.

I understand that you are a senior L40 watchmaker working for a Rolex AD.

With all respect, can you please show us only one 'complete' (5 positions) Witschi timegrapher measurement of a 32xx caliber, as a Witschi screenshot, with 300° amplitudes in dial up and/or dial down?

In the meantime, I quote what Bas (SearChart) had posted (April 2023) in this thread:

"We don't see 300 degrees because it's not designed to run at those amplitudes.

The entire point of the chronergy escapement is more efficiency and less friction, very high amplitudes would be counterproductive since it's just a waste of energy.

For a 0hr test DU DD amplitudes are optimal when between 260-280, and vertical position in the 230-40 range.

Pretty much all 32×× that run like this will have good steady average rates both at 0hrs and 24hrs and will reach the minimum amplitude tolerance of 200 degrees easily. So I see no point in aiming for 300 degrees, there is no benefit to that.

The only thing I want to see is that they keep running at ideal amplitudes for 8-10 years. Simple regulation isn't going to solve that problem."

Source: post 3829