32xx movement problem poll and data thread

[Easy E]

Fresh watch, fresh data.

Attached are my current readings on a (new to me) May 24 example of a 126713GRNR, run through 60hrs. 60hrs test on a cheapo meter is a commitment, no doubt. I don't usually run all watches that far out, only when I have the time to do so. Generally speaking, I am most interested in the 0 and 24 hr numbers, sometimes through 48, but 60 tells you a great deal about how the movement really performs over the PR (more on that later).

This particular piece is running just ok at 24, -2.24spd overall, 1.9 horizontal, but -5 in the verticals. The verticals are not awesome, 3 up is borderline out of spec (I give a slight margin of error for my meter, environmental factors). I'm not really going to make a call on this one for a little while, but overall I think the AMPs are a touch low @24.

I have since gone back at looked at all of my readings that I have taken an have a few observations to share.

I have owned and measured 4 GMTs - a 2018 BLRO, a 2019 BLNR and two 24 models. My older GMTs run/ran much better than the new ones, go figure. My BLRO was -1.28spd @24hrs when I traded right before the warranty expired for an AP RO - good trade. My BLNR which just rolled out of warranty is +1.46spd @24, still one of my most consistent pieces. The 2024 models are -1.8 and -2.24 @24hrs. My non GMT 32s are not so great - at 24hrs I have an overall average (pre-service) of -5.47spd and an average amplitude of 195.03 - that is in all positions.

I have only tested a few watches to 60 hrs, more at 48. At 48hrs I have an overall average of -8.89spd and AMP of 189.24. That is all watches, all positions (again, pre-service). Of the watches I have tested all the way out to 60hrs I have an overall average of -13.71spd an AMP Avg of 155.23. The vertical positions at 60hrs average -19.26spd which I classify as borderline useless animation.

As for the verticals, that is where I see most of the defects. I have heard/read that the date wheel can add friction, the GMT function can add friction, problems with epilames are possible, I don't know enough to make a call on any of that. It just always strikes me as curious that the 32s struggle a lot in the verticals. That is really the only thing I can say. I realize that is no a profound observation at this point of the thread, but I can prove that point.

For all the data junkies out there I understand my average assessments don't hold a ton merit, just some simple observations I have come up with. If you made it this far through my post, congratulations, give yourself a cookie.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Easy E

Fresh watch, fresh data.

Fresh graph.

Originally Posted by Easy E

I have owned and measured 4 GMTs - a 2018 BLRO, a 2019 BLNR and two 24 models. My older GMTs run/ran much better than the new ones, go figure. My BLRO was -1.28spd @24hrs when I traded right before the warranty expired for an AP RO - good trade. My BLNR which just rolled out of warranty is +1.46spd @24, still one of my most consistent pieces. The 2024 models are -1.8 and -2.24 @24hrs. My non GMT 32s are not so great - at 24hrs I have an overall average (pre-service) of -5.47spd and an average amplitude of 195.03 - that is in all positions.

All these 4 GMTs are compared in a new graph, which shows the average amplitudes and rates as a function of time after full winding.



The amplitude values for the GRNR, BLNR, BLRO are very close; the so-called watch 'X' is the worst.

The rate values for the watch 'X' and the BLRO are similar, the new GRNR is the worst and the BLNR (inexplicably) the best.

All 4 GMTs have in common that their accuracy (X rate) decreases significantly after 48 hours. Looking at all the timegrapher data, this is the direct result of the 3285's poor performance in all 3 vertical positions (3U, 6U, 9U).

As I have posted many times before, the main problem with the 32xx calibers is located in their vertical positions.

There is no improvement in these new 2024 watches compared to models bought in 2018/19 and earlier.

The performance change after 48 hours is also clearly visible in the isochronism change of the 3285 calibers as it deviates from linearity. The two new 2024 watches are shown in the graph below. For healthy movements, the 60-hour data points would lie on the linear fit line.

[Poodlopogus]

Anyone ever have a 32xx watch make a partial "recovery" on its own? I have one, from 2022, that I was thinking was going to need to go in some time in the near future. Had been gaining about 1 s/d for almost 2 years, and then, started losing time over the past two months.

For about six weeks, was a very consistent -4.5 s/d. Then, the past two weeks, it has started running at about -3 s/d.

Not something I've seen mentioned before, so curious about others' experience.

[saxo3]

Which 32xx movement?

[MikeyV]

Originally Posted by Poodlopogus

Anyone ever have a 32xx watch make a partial "recovery" on its own? I have one, from 2022, that I was thinking was going to need to go in some time in the near future. Had been gaining about 1 s/d for almost 2 years, and then, started losing time over the past two months.

For about six weeks, was a very consistent -4.5 s/d. Then, the past two weeks, it has started running at about -3 s/d.

Not something I've seen mentioned before, so curious about others' experience.

Mine did. Search for my posts about this on the forum here. Lon story short, after running slow, then running way better for a few months, went back to running really slow and was sent in (second time sending it in for slow running).

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by MikeyV

Mine did.

FWIW (1415)

[maratka]

Friends, I took measurements three months after purchasing, 3235 Sub. The watch is worn every day. I don’t really understand why there’s such a variation in amplitude and accuracy in the 3U/6U/9U positions… complete silence, of course, this wasn’t the case before. The position is the same as it was three months ago. The only thing I can say is what Babanin mentioned about the psychological 200 degrees: when the frequency drops below 200, the accuracy immediately 'disappears.'

The watch is fully wound
DU 269 +4
6U 240 +1
9U 230 +1
3U 226 -1
DD 270 +1

24 Std

DU 255 +3
6U 200…208 -2…+1
9U 198…207 -4… -2
3U 197…209 -5… -2
DD 245 +0

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by maratka

That's why I haven't voted yet :)

Originally Posted by maratka

I took measurements three months after purchasing, 3235 Sub.

The watch is fully wound
DU 269 +4
6U 240 +1
9U 230 +1
3U 226 -1
DD 270 +1

24 Std

DU 255 +3
6U 200…208 -2…+1
9U 198…207 -4… -2
3U 197…209 -5… -2
DD 245 +0

Now you can vote

[maratka]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Now you can vote

I don't share your excitement 😂. There's plenty of time left on the warranty, and they work fine regardless of the indicators, so I'll be contacting them much later.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by maratka

I don't share your excitement ��. There's plenty of time left on the warranty, and they work fine regardless of the indicators, so I'll be contacting them much later.

Seriously, your 3235 measurements show how and where the 32xx movements start to deteriorate: in the 3 vertical positions. Timekeeping is still very good, as the 2 horizontal positions keep the watch running (very) well. This is the reason why many owners discover the problem only after 1-2 years or later, but often still within the 5 year warranty period. As you say, you have plenty of time. Enjoy your watch as much as possible.

The only interesting point for me is the fact that the same 32xx issue (too low amplitudes) still occurs with NEW 2024 watches.

[saxo3]

Here a simple summary of all new 2024 watches presented with data in this thread, sorted by purchase date.

[temporaltactix]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Seriously, your 3235 measurements show how and where the 32xx movements start to deteriorate: in the 3 vertical positions. Timekeeping is still very good, as the 2 horizontal positions keep the watch running (very) well. This is the reason why many owners discover the problem only after 1-2 years or later, but often still within the 5 year warranty period. As you say, you have plenty of time. Enjoy your watch as much as possible.

The only interesting point for me is the fact that the same 32xx issue (too low amplitudes) still occurs with NEW 2024 watches.

Inferior parts, design flaw, or workmanship?

[hl0m4n]

glad i found this thread but can't read through 100+ pages . i created a post comparing my sub and gmt both 2022 and the sub is consistently running slower. https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=958000

wasn't there an update to the rotor adding more bearings at some point?

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by hl0m4n

wasn't there an update to the rotor adding more bearings at some point?

Yes there was indeed.
More balls were added to the bearing design.

Having said that, my understanding is that it's not applied to an older movement as a routine upgrade at service.
Unless perhaps there might be major works carried out on the movement as a repair(not routine service).
Happy to be proven wrong about that though.

[Goatrope]

Originally Posted by hl0m4n

wasn't there an update to the rotor adding more bearings at some point?

Question for the team- All the data in post 5171 are from watches manufactured after the ball-bearing update, correct?

[RolexRelojes]

New to forum here, and I just recently got a 126200.

It is running between 6-7 seconds slow a day since I bought it a couple weeks ago. This is comparing it to my Casio GW-5000u. I do not own a timegrapher, but I hope to drop by local repair shop to get the data and present it to Bob’s which is where I got the watch. According to Bob’s, their timegrapher reading is -4/+1 which is a bit disappointing since my vintage 6827/3 is running at consistently at approximately +3 to +4 per day and keeping better time. I was really expecting something like the magical +2/-2 sec day.

My warranty only lasts for a year, but they aren’t convinced it has an issue. I hope to get independent readings of my own.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Goatrope

All the data in post 5171 are from watches manufactured after the ball-bearing update, correct?:thinking:

Correct. All watches listed in my table (5171) were bought in 2024.

End of February 2023 I posted photos (in this thread) of the modified ball bearing, see 3547.

[saxo3]

50 ! people are just viewing and nobody is posting anything, come on guys ...

[Dr. Robert]

Originally Posted by saxo3

50 ! people are just viewing and nobody is posting anything, come on guys ...

I’m just waiting for the 33XX moment to come out. And all will be well in Rolex land!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Dr. Robert

I’m just waiting for the 33XX moment to come out. And all will be well in Rolex land!

Your post #63'000

All 5 of your fantastic posts in this thread:

(1) I concur, sadly.

(2) Better fast than slow

(3) Four or five seconds fast is ok
If it was running very fast then a visit to the watchmaker would be in order

(4) No more updates? Did Rolex fix the problem?

(5) I'm just waiting for the 33XX moment to come out. And all will be well in Rolex land!

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by RolexRelojes

New to forum here, and I just recently got a 126200. It is running between 6-7 seconds slow a day since I bought it a couple weeks ago.

Welcome. How old is this watch (not your purchase date)? Did you get the original Rolex warranty card?

Edit: BOB's currently offers 3 different pre-owned Rolex Datejust 126200 on their website. Their photos show that all 3 are sold with the original warranty card, these are dated 24/01/2022; 06/07/2020; 20/02/2021.

The Rolex warranty period is 5 years for your watch. If your watch is newer than 08/2019, you can send it directly to your nearest RSC (Rolex Service Center) and don't need the dealer's one-year warranty. Therefore it would be very good if you have the original Rolex warranty card.

Buy a $200 timegrapher (e.g. a Weishi model 1900) and measure the 3235 amplitudes and rates yourself!

[RolexRelojes]

Thanks for the reply saxo3, your input is very appreciated.
I purchased it without box or papers, since it was at a good price and Bob’s is local. I do not have any paperwork or Rolex warranty card for it. At the time of purchase, I asked around what date they think it was produced, and since it has a random serial number it couldn't be confirmed.

Can Rolex be contacted directly to see if it’s within 5 years, and I could get a replacement card for service? I feel that the watch is definitely out of specs, or my vintage movement must be superior to this 3235.

Thanks for endorsing the weishi. I’ll have to get one to do my measurements at home. I see amazon has vendors that send it via prime!

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by RolexRelojes

Thanks for the reply saxo3, your input is very appreciated.
I purchased it without box or papers, since it was at a good price and Bob’s is local. I do not have any paperwork or Rolex warranty card for it. At the time of purchase, I asked around what date they think it was produced, and since it has a random serial number it couldn't be confirmed.

You are welcome! The box and other stuff is not important, but the warranty card is. Why would any owner or seller not have that for a rather new watch? But it's too late now.

Originally Posted by RolexRelojes

Can Rolex be contacted directly to see if it’s within 5 years, and I could get a replacement card for service?

Of course, you can contact Rolex to see if the watch is still under warranty. Don't mention the dealer or any issues. I very much doubt you will get a replacement warranty card. Therefore, it does not help, see [1]

Originally Posted by RolexRelojes

I feel that the watch is definitely out of specs, or my vintage movement must be superior to this 3235.

I am not surprised.

Originally Posted by RolexRelojes

Thanks for endorsing the weishi. I’ll have to get one to do my measurements at home. I see amazon has vendors that send it via prime!

The Weishi 1900 is a cheap but very useful and sufficient instrument for you. There are several posts in this long thread that describe the procedure that should be followed. If necessary, we can go through it when you start measuring. The main observables are the caliber amplitudes and the rates in 5 (not 6) positions. The lift angle of the 3235 movement is 53°. Basically, you need to measure after a full winding and 24 hours later. To achieve a full 32xx movement winding you need to do 40 full crown turns 360° each. My guess is that your 3235 amplitudes are too low.

I'm not sure what I would do in your situation. I would try to reverse the deal with BOB's and get my money back. Then find another 126200 (plus the card) that is still under Rolex warranty.

I would not have my 3235 serviced or repaired by anyone other than RSC. For sure not by any BOB's or TOM's or SAM's watchmaker.


[1] "Rolex guarantees the proper functioning of its watches for a period of five years from the date of purchase. The Rolex guarantee excludes normal wear-and-tear (notably the wear-and-tear of non-metal bracelets and straps), loss, theft, or damage due to misuse. The substitution of components with, or the addition of, components or accessories not manufactured by Rolex will invalidate the guarantee. The guarantee is valid only if (1) the watch has been sold by an Official Rolex Retailer; (2) the guarantee card has been completed in full by the Official Rolex Retailer at the time of purchase; and (3) the guarantee card is presented with the watch, either to an Official Rolex Retailer or to an Official Rolex Service Centre. Any work carried out by third parties will render the guarantee null and void." (source: rolex.com)

[5kooby]

My 126710BLNR GMT II, Batgirl, Dec 2023 card, Weishi 1000, LA =53.0

Full-wind 24-hr 48-hr
Position Rt. Amp. Err. | Rt Amp. Err. | Rt Amp. Err.
DU 0 256 0.0 0 237 0.1 0 207 0.0
3U -4 220 0.0 -4 200 0.0 -6 180 0.0
6U -1 219 0.2 -4 196 0.3 -10 179 0.2
9U -5 220 0.2 -4 206 0.2 -9 175 0.3
DD 1 243 0.1 0 232 0.1 0 200 0.0

Strangely, very consistent at DU and DD positions for all powers. I am thinking of regulate it to +2 spd for DU/DD positions; at least can speed up to compensate for the slow times. Worth it to send it to RSC? Seems the consensus is that Rolex can do nothing at this time? Still under warranty until 2028.

[csaltphoto]

Originally Posted by RolexRelojes

New to forum here, and I just recently got a 126200.

It is running between 6-7 seconds slow a day since I bought it a couple weeks ago. This is comparing it to my Casio GW-5000u. I do not own a timegrapher, but I hope to drop by local repair shop to get the data and present it to Bob’s which is where I got the watch. According to Bob’s, their timegrapher reading is -4/+1 which is a bit disappointing since my vintage 6827/3 is running at consistently at approximately +3 to +4 per day and keeping better time. I was really expecting something like the magical +2/-2 sec day.

My warranty only lasts for a year, but they aren’t convinced it has an issue. I hope to get independent readings of my own.

A couple of issues. Bob's has very little motivation to fix your watch for 2 reasons. They have your money. And they may well be aware that the 32xx problem is not fixable outside of a trip to RSC and even that might not do the trick. Bob's probably has a local or inhouse watch tech that might regulate it or do something else but not really "fix" it.

Several posters in this thread have had several round trips back to RSC, only to have the problem crop up again. On the brighter side, several known Rolex techs have posted the issue seems to diminishing. One or two have noticed modified parts and/or lubricating instructions.

Even Rolex has little motivation to really address it since they sell every watch they make with years long waits for some models. For many buyers these days, timekeeping is a somewhat secondary aspect of wearing a Rolex.

[bigmcmuffins]

Hi all, I am a relatively new member of the forum. The hundreds of pages on this thread have been interesting to read. I share my results below in the images.

I followed the instructions included in posts in this thread on how to properly use the timegrapher. I only tracked 0,12,24hr so far, debating whether to track more, as I'd like to wear the watch tomorrow rather than sit on a timegrapher (even though I am also interested in looking at timegrapher numbers too)! But either way, I definitely plan to track the progress over the next few years as I daily wear the watch (will never be sold, even if it develops the 32xx illness, as it's my first and very sentimental). All information for the watch and performance included in the images. Forgive me if the images are hard to see, I'm not familiar with how to use the forum and uploading images (can others confirm I'm uploading the images correctly?).

Cheers all, and @saxo3, credit to you - I hope it's alright I took inspiration heavily from your plots and made my own version with a few lines in my spreadsheet - it was fun to look at your graphs!

Some notes about the watch and my personal experience daily wearing since I got it this summer: I work mostly at a desk so limited movement in a day. I aim for about 8 hrs on wrist. I rest the watch DU at night. The watch at worst loses about 1 second a day in my experience, and only really if I've had a particularly sedentary/lazy day. Otherwise, it seems I can get about -1 second per week at best. It seems to run okay and consistently with the specs measured by the timegrapher (i.e., slightly slow but within spec). I'd probably rather it run fast than slow, but that's nothing I can change and I'm enjoying the watch immensely regardless.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by 5kooby

My 126710BLNR GMT II, Batgirl, Dec 2023 card, Weishi 1000, LA =53.0

Full-wind 24-hr 48-hr
Position Rt. Amp. Err. | Rt Amp. Err. | Rt Amp. Err.
DU 0 256 0.0 0 237 0.1 0 207 0.0
3U -4 220 0.0 -4 200 0.0 -6 180 0.0
6U -1 219 0.2 -4 196 0.3 -10 179 0.2
9U -5 220 0.2 -4 206 0.2 -9 175 0.3
DD 1 243 0.1 0 232 0.1 0 200 0.0

Strangely, very consistent at DU and DD positions for all powers. I am thinking of regulate it to +2 spd for DU/DD positions; at least can speed up to compensate for the slow times. Worth it to send it to RSC? Seems the consensus is that Rolex can do nothing at this time? Still under warranty until 2028.

Not a great data presentation format.

This only 9 months old 3285 has the too low amplitude issue (3U, 6U after 24 hours).

All amplitudes after full winding should be a bit higher. Horizontal: 260-280, Vertical: 230-240.

Already after full winding all vertical rates are negative, compensated a bit by the horizontal rates.

Regulation is not going to solve the fundamental issue.

----

"Worth it to send it to RSC?" No, not yet, I would wait and observe.

"Seems the consensus is that Rolex can do nothing at this time?" That is your not my conclusion, and wrong in my opinion.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by bigmcmuffins

… Cheers all, and @saxo3, credit to you - I hope it's alright I took inspiration heavily from your plots and made my own version with a few lines in my spreadsheet - it was fun to look at your graphs! …

Thank you. You are the first to present such a set of graphs; great and much appreciated your effort to visualise your data. Graphs are worth a 1000 words.

Just one small note: the dotted line in your lower right graph suffers from too few data points. Therefore, it is not a 'good' fit to the data (only 3 points). If you were to measure up to about 60 hours, this would probably improve.

Anyway, your 3230 movement is good. Keep an eye on all 3 vertical amplitudes. These are the main indicators of the issue.

May I ask you the watch reference and the exact date of purchase (month/2024)?

If you want to keep track of the accuracy on a daily basis, I recommend the WatchTracker app (iOS). Two data points a day are enough.

[RolexRelojes]

Thanks for the responses csaltphoto and saxo. At the very least I have an authentic timepiece, and I really like it so I don’t want to trade it in or try to reverse my deal with Bob’s. It does not make much sense why the watch didn’t come with box/papers, but its list price was 6500. Its unfortunate that their customer service is quite terrible and disregarding, but I will get the watch reviewed by a Rolex certified watchmaker. I’ll check to see if the warranty may still be active for this serial number. There are a few Rolex certified watchmakers is SoCal, and I would very much rather go to one of them- especially if the watchmaker is in house and can actually have a conversation with me. Many thanks

[saxo3]

@RolexRelojes, did you buy a Weishi 1900 timegrapher?

The Rolex Datejust 126200 was launched (with the 3235 caliber) at Baselworld 2019. Without the original guarantee card the watch has NO Rolex guarantee (as posted above). There is a reason why your 126200 is $2000 cheaper than the other 3 Datejusts currently offered by Bob's.