F.P. Journe Chronometer Bleu pricing going through the roof!

[harrison_cheng]

so many Elegante 48 for sale on chrono24. the actual deal price?

[lutchki]

Originally Posted by unknown

Elegante 48 and definitely the titalyt goes strong today. 97K is too crazy but 50-60 K (euro so 60-70 USD) seems to be the price today. A lot for a quartz watch.
But once again, I'm sure the Quartz in the Elegante costs more than the automatic in ANY Rolex.
Would I pay euro 55K for the Elegante ? No, cause for that price you can get any Journe chronometre Souverain from FPJ. And I still do prefer manual or automatic. On the other hand if one really likes the looks of the Elegante ... Why not.

We have to accept that a group of collectors hunts for the iconic designs and watches. And a design is more important to them than finishing or complications.
Who would have thought 10 years ago a 5711 still would have about the same value as a 5970.


I try to compare it to extremely expensive art, to give you an idea.


This one is a Rubens made around 1600





Do I like it ? NO
But I can understand this is art and there i no way I can make something like this


The other one is a recent Rothko



Do I like this one ? Maybe more my style but on the other hand I think a 7 year old kid can make something similar ;-)


Now .... BOTH are among the most expensive paintings ever and both fetched 75.000.000 USD !!!
Somehow I think the Rubbens is a grande complication with superb finishing and the Rothko is a very simple 3hands entry level piece...
BUT its obvious that there is a market for both.


So this Elegante for 50-60K USD ?
For some it's worth it

Well said.


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[jenniferjanef]

Originally Posted by unknown

Elegante 48 and definitely the titalyt goes strong today. 97K is too crazy but 50-60 K (euro so 60-70 USD) seems to be the price today. A lot for a quartz watch.
But once again, I'm sure the Quartz in the Elegante costs more than the automatic in ANY Rolex.
Would I pay euro 55K for the Elegante ? No, cause for that price you can get any Journe chronometre Souverain from FPJ. And I still do prefer manual or automatic. On the other hand if one really likes the looks of the Elegante ... Why not.

We have to accept that a group of collectors hunts for the iconic designs and watches. And a design is more important to them than finishing or complications.
Who would have thought 10 years ago a 5711 still would have about the same value as a 5970.


I try to compare it to extremely expensive art, to give you an idea.


This one is a Rubens made around 1600





Do I like it ? NO
But I can understand this is art and there i no way I can make something like this


The other one is a recent Rothko



Do I like this one ? Maybe more my style but on the other hand I think a 7 year old kid can make something similar ;-)


Now .... BOTH are among the most expensive paintings ever and both fetched 75.000.000 USD !!!
Somehow I think the Rubbens is a grande complication with superb finishing and the Rothko is a very simple 3hands entry level piece...
BUT its obvious that there is a market for both.


So this Elegante for 50-60K USD ?
For some it's worth it

Thank you for the enlightenment.

[cascavel]

Originally Posted by jenniferjanef

Thank you for the enlightenment.

Ha! Because the Reubens is an Enlightenment Period painting. Brilliant.

[jenniferjanef]

https://www.watchpatrol.xyz/?source=rolexforums.com

Some are still for sale..

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by jenniferjanef

Thank you for the enlightenment.

The craziest thing is that even the 40mm Elegante is a few times over retail. Exactly 11 months ago, I was offered a 40mm Elegante in Ti for $9000 and I turned it down and now it is in the $30k range?

[GreenLantern]

People are treating watches like their favorite crypto altcoin / cr*p coin.

What a miserable state of the world it is now for true collectors.

[TooWoundUp]

Just a PSA: Chronometre Bleu Pricing is absolutely nuts. Three insane results in the last 2 weeks:

1) Phillips Geneva- 106,000 USD
2) Ineichen Auctions Geneva - 110,000 USD
3) European watch Co - 109,500

What just happened lol

[unknown]

Originally Posted by TooWoundUp

Just a PSA: Chronometre Bleu Pricing is absolutely nuts. Three insane results in the last 2 weeks:

1) Phillips Geneva- 106,000 USD
2) Ineichen Auctions Geneva - 110,000 USD
3) European watch Co - 109,500

What just happened lol

TBH... I don’t think it’s that nuts
For me the watch is at least worth 2 times more than a 5711 or 15202
AT LEAST

Well maybe they’re all nuts but if the nautilus sells for euro 100k I believe a CB for the same is a bargain

[lanteanflux]

Originally Posted by TooWoundUp

Just a PSA: Chronometre Bleu Pricing is absolutely nuts. Three insane results in the last 2 weeks:

1) Phillips Geneva- 106,000 USD
2) Ineichen Auctions Geneva - 110,000 USD
3) European watch Co - 109,500

What just happened lol

Watch box too just sold one 105-110 iirc


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[unknown]

Originally Posted by lanteanflux

Watch box too just sold one 105-110 iirc


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And this morning I got a notification from chrono24
One just came available.... the only one on chrono24
110,000 USD
Couple of hours later .... “RESERVED”

[unknown]

This one

https://www.chrono24.com/fpjourne/ch...id19734616.htm

[itswb]

Wonder how much stock US dealers have in reserve until we get into severe scarcity pricing

[jenniferjanef]

Originally Posted by unknown

This one

https://www.chrono24.com/fpjourne/ch...id19734616.htm

It is gone. I presume “sold”

[ts3]

Originally Posted by jenniferjanef

It is gone. I presume “sold”

The watch that showed up and quickly disappeared on chrono24 was the EWC watch that was discussed and listed as sold for 109.5k earlier in this thread. Probably just took them a few days to get it listed on chrono24 and it had already sold in the interim.

[jenniferjanef]

I saw plenty of 5711 and 5980 listed on Chrono24 with ridiculously high price tags.. but they are just not moving.. IMHO those are obviously not the market value because on one is buying and is over supplied too. There are 363 nautilus 5711 listed in all metals.

As for CB, if they listed at 109k and it is sold in a day or two, that’s the real market value.

[accountank2000]

Originally Posted by jenniferjanef

As for CB, if they listed at 109k and it is sold in a day or two, that’s the real market value.

But that doesn't mean it really went for 109k. That means it was advertised for 109k by a seller who has a vested interest in letting the market think that 109k is around the going rate for that watch.

The buyer will only pay what he actually wants to pay, and will make an offer and negotiate. It might have been $60-80k for all we know.. The dealer will be happy to have listed a watch for $109k and got it sold quickly, because people on forums will be talking about how the CB listed for $109k got sold and the next one he has could be listed at $100-$120k; the next buyer won't try to negotiate it down to $60k if he thinks the market is showing $100k+ as the 'new normal'. But if you go to Watchfinder or Watchbox to trade in a CB that you own, they won't be offering you $100k for it with the expectation that they can sell it for an easy 10% margin :)

The asking prices on Chrono24 and elsewhere can be misleading if there is not a large amount of supply from unconnected rival sellers. They can list it for whatever they like and see who bites. If they want to make it look like watches are moving at that price, they can buy it from themselves, for a few percent commission to Chrono, and then they have 'established' the price. Same with auction venues although the sky-high commissions can make it expensive to do it too often.

[edhahn44]

Originally Posted by accountank2000

But that doesn't mean it really went for 109k. That means it was advertised for 109k by a seller who has a vested interest in letting the market think that 109k is around the going rate for that watch.

The buyer will only pay what he actually wants to pay, and will make an offer and negotiate. It might have been $60-80k for all we know.. The dealer will be happy to have listed a watch for $109k and got it sold quickly, because people on forums will be talking about how the CB listed for $109k got sold and the next one he has could be listed at $100-$120k; the next buyer won't try to negotiate it down to $60k if he thinks the market is showing $100k+ as the 'new normal'. But if you go to Watchfinder or Watchbox to trade in a CB that you own, they won't be offering you $100k for it with the expectation that they can sell it for an easy 10% margin :)

The asking prices on Chrono24 and elsewhere can be misleading if there is not a large amount of supply from unconnected rival sellers. They can list it for whatever they like and see who bites. If they want to make it look like watches are moving at that price, they can buy it from themselves, for a few percent commission to Chrono, and then they have 'established' the price. Same with auction venues although the sky-high commissions can make it expensive to do it too often.

This might be the case for other rare watches, but looking at how quickly the CBs are moving at the moment and considering recent auction prices, I believe USD 100k+ is the new norm here.

[lanteanflux]

Originally Posted by accountank2000

But that doesn't mean it really went for 109k. That means it was advertised for 109k by a seller who has a vested interest in letting the market think that 109k is around the going rate for that watch.

The buyer will only pay what he actually wants to pay, and will make an offer and negotiate. It might have been $60-80k for all we know.. The dealer will be happy to have listed a watch for $109k and got it sold quickly, because people on forums will be talking about how the CB listed for $109k got sold and the next one he has could be listed at $100-$120k; the next buyer won't try to negotiate it down to $60k if he thinks the market is showing $100k+ as the 'new normal'. But if you go to Watchfinder or Watchbox to trade in a CB that you own, they won't be offering you $100k for it with the expectation that they can sell it for an easy 10% margin :)

The asking prices on Chrono24 and elsewhere can be misleading if there is not a large amount of supply from unconnected rival sellers. They can list it for whatever they like and see who bites. If they want to make it look like watches are moving at that price, they can buy it from themselves, for a few percent commission to Chrono, and then they have 'established' the price. Same with auction venues although the sky-high commissions can make it expensive to do it too often.

Negotiated Watchbox and EWC down to 60k


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[harrison_cheng]

from my experience, usually only 5% discount from their asking.

[BigAppleBill]

A CB just popped up on EWC’s incoming page. Asking price is $116,500.

There’s no reason it shouldn’t sell quickly. The last one was only listed for a day before selling at $109K.

[ts3]

Originally Posted by BigAppleBill

A CB just popped up on EWC’s incoming page. Asking price is $116,500.

There’s no reason it shouldn’t sell quickly. The last one was only listed for a day before selling at $109K.

Somehow I am thinking this is again the watch from a few days ago. The pics look exactly the same. Anybody remember if the earlier one was also from 2019?

EWC play this game all the time, removing listed watches and showing them again under Incoming Watches...

[BigAppleBill]

Originally Posted by ts3

Somehow I am thinking this is again the watch from a few days ago. The pics look exactly the same. Anybody remember if the earlier one was also from 2019?

EWC play this game all the time, removing listed watches and showing them again under Incoming Watches...

It’s not. I checked. Again, the previous one sold for $109.5K in about a day.

I’ve seen EWC re-list watches before, as you say, but those were watches that languished for weeks at the bottom of the for sale listings. Occasionally they re-list those as new incomings. Not this time though.

[ts3]

Originally Posted by BigAppleBill

It’s not. I checked. Again, the previous one sold for $109.5K in about a day.

I’ve seen EWC re-list watches before, as you say, but those were watches that languished for weeks at the bottom of the for sale listings. Occasionally they re-list those as new incomings. Not this time though.

What had me wonder is that the one that sold 10 days ago is missing from their archive of sold watches where I believe to have seen it a few days ago.

[BigAppleBill]

I’ve noticed that occasionally immediately sold watches that never went from “incoming” to “new arrivals” are either not listed in the sold section, or they can appear several days later in the sold section.

[lanteanflux]

Is WatchBox also out of CBs somehow? Never seen them not post one for so long.


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[BigAppleBill]

Originally Posted by lanteanflux

Is WatchBox also out of CBs somehow? Never seen them not post one for so long.


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My pure guess would be that WatchBox has at least a few in the vault and they sporadically offer one for sale as management decides the market price is right.

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by TooWoundUp

Just a PSA: Chronometre Bleu Pricing is absolutely nuts. Three insane results in the last 2 weeks:

1) Phillips Geneva- 106,000 USD
2) Ineichen Auctions Geneva - 110,000 USD
3) European watch Co - 109,500

What just happened lol

I'd rather have a FPJ QP for 2/3 that price.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

I'd rather have a FPJ QP for 2/3 that price.

This is almost the price of a Resonance

[Bearxj86]

Originally Posted by llngoc

This is almost the price of a Resonance

A resonance at retail. Might as well use the CB at retail as a comparison ;/