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DadsWatch72 · 25 November 2009, 10:50 AM

No response? How can this thread NOT be directly related to Rolex watches? Why would it be moved to part of the forum that has nothing to do with watches?

Welshwatchman · 25 November 2009, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DadsWatch72

I don't understand why this thread was moved. Scroll down and look at all the other posting topics. Mine is about selling a Rolex watch, not about bicycling across America or something.

Perhaps the moderators don't understand the rules then.

BTW - I didn't move it but that's only because I didn't see it first.

If the watch was bequeathed to you then I can't see how it would attract taxes. It wouldn't here in the UK (providing the total estate didn't exceed £300,000-600,000.

DadsWatch72 · 25 November 2009, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

Perhaps the moderators don't understand the rules then.

BTW - I didn't move it but that's only because I didn't see it first.

If the watch was bequeathed to you then I can't see how it would attract taxes. It wouldn't here in the UK (providing the total estate didn't exceed £300,000-600,000.

I don't understand what your saying, and why your saying this.

DadsWatch72 · 25 November 2009, 11:04 AM

The United States is unlike other countries in that its citizens are subject to U.S. tax on their worldwide income no matter where in the world they reside. U.S. citizens therefore find it difficult to take advantage of personal tax havens. Although there are some offshore bank accounts that advertise as tax havens, U.S. law requires reporting of income from those accounts and failure to do so constitutes tax evasion.

Welshwatchman · 25 November 2009, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DadsWatch72

I don't understand what your saying, and why your saying this.

In the United Kingdon we have something called Inheritance Tax.

If I inherited a Vintage watch worth £17,000+ I would not pay a penny tax unless the bequeather's estate exceeded £300-600,000. Then the watch would attract tax at 40%.

Did you not inherit this watch from your Dad, Dadwatch?

DadsWatch72 · 25 November 2009, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

In the United Kingdon we have something called Inheritance Tax.

If I inherited a Vintage watch worth £17,000+ I would not pay a penny tax unless the bequeather's estate exceeded £300-600,000. Then the watch would attract tax at 40%.

Did you not inherit this watch from your Dad, Dadwatch?

It was my fathers, my mother gave it to me when he passed away. So I didn't inherit it from him, I was given it as a gift from a living person. I could be wrong but I think they are different situations and it wouldn't be considered inheritance.

And the thread wasn't started to talk about when I received the watch, but rather if I were to sell it now. And BTW, if that were the case and I would have to pay 40% tax on this watch, I would revolt and it would be revolution.

Omega_Precision · 25 November 2009, 11:18 AM

In the United States, you wouldn't be taxed for the property you inherited, if the giver was still alive. You would just report the cost of the watch that his dad had paid for. If you inherit something after someone's death, then you are taxed for "fair market value" of the watch.

The government has no way proving that he inherited the watch before or after death. So that is not the concern.

Now selling the watch for a gain or profit is another thing.

DadsWatch72 · 25 November 2009, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega_Precision

In the United States, you wouldn't be taxed for the property you inherited, if the giver was still alive. You would just report the cost of the watch that his dad had paid for. If you inherit something after someone's death, then you are taxed for "fair market value" of the watch.

The government has no way proving that he inherited the watch before or after death. So that is not the concern.

Now selling the watch for a gain or profit is another thing.

They could ask my mother, she is still alive and doing well.

And my father never paid a dime for it. It was a gift from a diver he knew. He was British.

Omega_Precision · 25 November 2009, 11:23 AM

You are ok my friend.....the only thing you have to worry about is the tax on capital gain, if you do decide to sell it.

Since you are going to make a pretty good sum of change for it.

Welshwatchman · 25 November 2009, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DadsWatch72

And the thread wasn't started to talk about when I received the watch, but rather if I were to sell it now.

You didn't seem to understand that the former is crucial to establish the latter.

DadsWatch72 · 25 November 2009, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega_Precision

You are ok my friend.....the only thing you have to worry about is the tax on capital gain, if you do decide to sell it.

Since you are going to make a pretty good sum of change for it.

Thanks and I appreciate all of your advice. Finance and business isn't my strong area. It would be a shame if I did sell it and not go about it properly. I don't want to do anything illegal anymore than I want to do something just plain stupid.

DadsWatch72 · 25 November 2009, 11:47 AM

I can't make heads or tails of this but I think it holds the "key" to the entire matter.

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/itax/Edi..._taxrelief.asp

Its a pitty that this information won't be included in the main section of TRF. Its good information but will be lost among talk of cars and other non-watch related topics.

Omega_Precision · 25 November 2009, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DadsWatch72

I can't make heads or tails of this but I think it holds the "key" to the entire matter.

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/itax/Edi..._taxrelief.asp

That is what I explained in a nutshell.

You are long-term...

and subject to 15% tax on the item sold.....unless your taxable income is in the 28% bracket. Then 28% would be taxed from your gain.

You see how the goverment taxes you...if you don't make enough and you have a gain, you are taxed less than those who make more and receive the same gain, with two similar items.

In your case, it's a little complicated as compared to dealers, who sell for a living.

DadsWatch72 · 25 November 2009, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega_Precision

That is what I explained in a nutshell.

You are long-term...

and subject to 15% tax on the item sold.....unless your taxable income is in the 28% bracket. Then 28% would be taxed from your gain.

You see how the goverment taxes you...if you don't make enough and you have a gain, you are taxed less than those who make more and receive the same gain, with two similar items.

In your case, it's a little complicated as compared to dealers, who sell for a living.

I would be better off to hold on to it and then, die. Then my son wouldn't have to pay any tax. Correct?

Omega_Precision · 25 November 2009, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DadsWatch72

I would be better off to hold on to it and then, die. Then my son wouldn't have to pay any tax. Correct?

Hold and give it to him....because he wouldn't have to report it. The "basis" of his inheritance/estate would be the cost, you or your father acquired the watch for, which is nothing.

....as compared to.....

If he receives the watch after you pass, then his capital gain would be "fair market value" of the watch/estate, whatever the appraisal comes out to be. He would have to report the inheritance at market price, which can be current market price.

Like I said, there is no way of proving when your son inherited the gift....everything is ok.

A CPA can help you more with estate planning...when the time comes, or if you decide to sell the watch.

Idle Swede · 25 November 2009, 12:10 PM

Pardon my ignorance but what is the actual, todays sales value of this watch?

DadsWatch72 · 25 November 2009, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Idle Swede

Pardon my ignorance but what is the actual, todays sales value of this watch?

I don't know exactly. Its more than what Rolex values it, I know that. It would have to be apraised by someone that can give an accurate value who knows vintage watches. Its worth what someone will pay for it. Anybody else that can throw out figures is welcome to do so.

Idle Swede · 25 November 2009, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DadsWatch72

I don't know exactly. Its more than what Rolex values it, I know that. It would have to be apraised by someone that can give an accurate value who knows vintage watches. Its worth what someone will pay for it. Anybody else that can throw out figures is welcome to do so.

Ok, let me rephrase my question.

What are similar watches going for in todays market?

DadsWatch72 · 25 November 2009, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Idle Swede

Ok, let me rephrase my question.

What are similar watches going for in todays market?

Find one that is still under warranty by Rolex USA and then you will have your answer.

Omega_Precision · 25 November 2009, 12:24 PM

I have seen some go up to 30k and more, from auctions sites not named Ebay.

Yours look mint.

Let's say you spend $100 for instruction booklet of that time period and $200 box and anchor (don't know if they gave anchors then) and whatever came with the watch......It would increase the value.

First thing I would do, is to try and complete it...it will be well worth it.

I have seen Red Subs fetch for a certain amount but I have seen them fetch for more because the watch was complete with box and papers, instructions all that good stuff.

Obviously this is nothing new when you see dealers selling booklets and boxes for hundreds of dollars. More collectors are trying to get the watch like "new old stock" COMPLETE.

DadsWatch72 · 25 November 2009, 12:36 PM

It would come with the original 9315/285 bracelet, the 93150 bracelet (unsized and unworn), 2 service warranty cards, 2 service boxes, a few letters from Rolex including a service agreement, a green pouch, rolex cloth, and thats it. I'm not going to track down all the original boxes ect. It seems excessive. I might buy a superdome in the near future but I won't install it. It would be there if someone wanted to install it later upon purchase. I also want to have the original bracelet serviced by Dalton soon. I have already spoke with him and its "on deck" for an overhaul.

DadsWatch72 · 26 November 2009, 06:36 AM

I spoke with a CPA today. Now I have a good idea what the tax would be based on my income. If I bequeath it to my son, he would be able to sell it right after my death and not have to pay any tax. If he holds on to the watch and it appreciates in value, he will have to pay tax on the difference in value (if it appreciated from the time he inherited the watch). Example.....If the watch is worth 45K and it appreciates to 55K, he will pay taxes on 10K.

Omega_Precision · 26 November 2009, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DadsWatch72

I spoke with a CPA today. Now I have a good idea what the tax would be based on my income. If I bequeath it to my son, he would be able to sell it right after my death and not have to pay any tax. If he holds on to the watch and it appreciates in value, he will have to pay tax on the difference in value (if it appreciated from the time he inherited the watch). Example.....If the watch is worth 45K and it appreciates to 55K, he will pay taxes on 10K.

Good stuff!...taxes suck...it is just that.

Let us know what you decide...if you keep it or sell it.

DadsWatch72 · 26 November 2009, 07:30 AM

If it was yours, how much would you sell it for?

kyle L · 26 November 2009, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DadsWatch72

If it was yours, how much would you sell it for?

I wouldn't sell it in this market right now.

Omega_Precision · 26 November 2009, 07:55 AM

I would personally hold on to it for a little longer.

I don't know your situation for selling it but I know you want top dollars for it. I would wait...again, this is my personal opinion.

You are on your own with this piece because this isn't a "sell it and buy it back on a later date" watch.

Wish I could be of help.

Omega_Precision · 26 November 2009, 08:05 AM

Perhaps staring price of 45k?

This is based off an article I read this past summer. The watch is very similar to yours in which it has service papers and it is already sold. Do some research or contact Delgado and ask for his opinion as well.

http://www.hodinkee.com/blog/2008/11...of-the-ha.html

Dealer selling the watch.....

http://www.watchesofdistinction.com/...el%20No%201665

DadsWatch72 · 26 November 2009, 08:06 AM

What if things don't get better? What if this is as good as it gets?

Then I would have to have an "End of the World" sale or something.

(maybe)

Omega_Precision · 26 November 2009, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DadsWatch72

What if things don't get better? What if this is as good as it gets?

Then I would have to have an "End of the World" sale or something.

(maybe)

The "what if's"....as long as there are collectors out there, then there will always be a market for your watch.

Damn!...you sure have a puurty watch

DadsWatch72 · 26 November 2009, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega_Precision

Perhaps staring price of 45k?

This is based off an article I read this past summer. The watch is very similar to yours in which it has service papers and it is already sold. Do some research or contact Delgado and ask for his opinion as well.

http://www.hodinkee.com/blog/2008/11...of-the-ha.html

Dealer selling the watch.....

http://www.watchesofdistinction.com/...el%20No%201665

45K seems to be the figure that is thrown out often. That price is a few years older and I don't see many of these watches for sale now. I have found that they were "gobbled up" in the past few years. Finding one now is very difficult, especially in the condition mine is in. Times are tough right now so some say less and some say more since they are even more rare and hard to find now. And thanks for the compliment. Its toooo nice. Too rich for my blood. I'm more of a meatloaf kind of guy. This is Prime Rib and not in my budget. I couldn't afford to buy this watch, ever.....

Its kinda funny. All of you collectors out there with so many watches in your collection, and many want THIS watch but don't have it. I don't have any other watches and I have a DR. Kinda ironic.

25 November 2009, 10:50 AM	#31
DadsWatch72 Banned Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: USA Watch: DRSD 1665 #3551XXX Posts: 2,401	No response? How can this thread NOT be directly related to Rolex watches? Why would it be moved to part of the forum that has nothing to do with watches?

25 November 2009, 11:04 AM	#34
DadsWatch72 Banned Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: USA Watch: DRSD 1665 #3551XXX Posts: 2,401	The United States is unlike other countries in that its citizens are subject to U.S. tax on their worldwide income no matter where in the world they reside. U.S. citizens therefore find it difficult to take advantage of personal tax havens. Although there are some offshore bank accounts that advertise as tax havens, U.S. law requires reporting of income from those accounts and failure to do so constitutes tax evasion.

25 November 2009, 11:18 AM	#37
Omega_Precision Banned Join Date: Dec 2008 Real Name: Henry Location: CA, US Watch: ing basketball Posts: 2,977	In the United States, you wouldn't be taxed for the property you inherited, if the giver was still alive. You would just report the cost of the watch that his dad had paid for. If you inherit something after someone's death, then you are taxed for "fair market value" of the watch. The government has no way proving that he inherited the watch before or after death. So that is not the concern. Now selling the watch for a gain or profit is another thing.

25 November 2009, 11:23 AM	#39
Omega_Precision Banned Join Date: Dec 2008 Real Name: Henry Location: CA, US Watch: ing basketball Posts: 2,977	You are ok my friend.....the only thing you have to worry about is the tax on capital gain, if you do decide to sell it. Since you are going to make a pretty good sum of change for it.

25 November 2009, 11:47 AM	#42
DadsWatch72 Banned Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: USA Watch: DRSD 1665 #3551XXX Posts: 2,401	I can't make heads or tails of this but I think it holds the "key" to the entire matter. http://www.bankrate.com/brm/itax/Edi..._taxrelief.asp Its a pitty that this information won't be included in the main section of TRF. Its good information but will be lost among talk of cars and other non-watch related topics.

25 November 2009, 12:10 PM	#46
Idle Swede Suspended Join Date: Oct 2008 Real Name: Leo Location: Boca Raton Posts: 13,820	Pardon my ignorance but what is the actual, todays sales value of this watch?

25 November 2009, 12:24 PM	#50
Omega_Precision Banned Join Date: Dec 2008 Real Name: Henry Location: CA, US Watch: ing basketball Posts: 2,977	I have seen some go up to 30k and more, from auctions sites not named Ebay. Yours look mint. Let's say you spend $100 for instruction booklet of that time period and $200 box and anchor (don't know if they gave anchors then) and whatever came with the watch......It would increase the value. First thing I would do, is to try and complete it...it will be well worth it. I have seen Red Subs fetch for a certain amount but I have seen them fetch for more because the watch was complete with box and papers, instructions all that good stuff. Obviously this is nothing new when you see dealers selling booklets and boxes for hundreds of dollars. More collectors are trying to get the watch like "new old stock" COMPLETE.

25 November 2009, 12:36 PM	#51
DadsWatch72 Banned Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: USA Watch: DRSD 1665 #3551XXX Posts: 2,401	It would come with the original 9315/285 bracelet, the 93150 bracelet (unsized and unworn), 2 service warranty cards, 2 service boxes, a few letters from Rolex including a service agreement, a green pouch, rolex cloth, and thats it. I'm not going to track down all the original boxes ect. It seems excessive. I might buy a superdome in the near future but I won't install it. It would be there if someone wanted to install it later upon purchase. I also want to have the original bracelet serviced by Dalton soon. I have already spoke with him and its "on deck" for an overhaul.

26 November 2009, 06:36 AM	#52
DadsWatch72 Banned Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: USA Watch: DRSD 1665 #3551XXX Posts: 2,401	I spoke with a CPA today. Now I have a good idea what the tax would be based on my income. If I bequeath it to my son, he would be able to sell it right after my death and not have to pay any tax. If he holds on to the watch and it appreciates in value, he will have to pay tax on the difference in value (if it appreciated from the time he inherited the watch). Example.....If the watch is worth 45K and it appreciates to 55K, he will pay taxes on 10K.

26 November 2009, 07:30 AM	#54
DadsWatch72 Banned Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: USA Watch: DRSD 1665 #3551XXX Posts: 2,401	If it was yours, how much would you sell it for?

26 November 2009, 07:55 AM	#56
Omega_Precision Banned Join Date: Dec 2008 Real Name: Henry Location: CA, US Watch: ing basketball Posts: 2,977	I would personally hold on to it for a little longer. I don't know your situation for selling it but I know you want top dollars for it. I would wait...again, this is my personal opinion. You are on your own with this piece because this isn't a "sell it and buy it back on a later date" watch. Wish I could be of help.

26 November 2009, 08:05 AM	#57
Omega_Precision Banned Join Date: Dec 2008 Real Name: Henry Location: CA, US Watch: ing basketball Posts: 2,977	Perhaps staring price of 45k? This is based off an article I read this past summer. The watch is very similar to yours in which it has service papers and it is already sold. Do some research or contact Delgado and ask for his opinion as well. http://www.hodinkee.com/blog/2008/11...of-the-ha.html Dealer selling the watch..... http://www.watchesofdistinction.com/...el%20No%201665

26 November 2009, 08:06 AM	#58
DadsWatch72 Banned Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: USA Watch: DRSD 1665 #3551XXX Posts: 2,401	What if things don't get better? What if this is as good as it gets? Then I would have to have an "End of the World" sale or something. (maybe)

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