Interesting fact about 'Ball Watch Company'

[Mosco]

How can I get my hands on this publication you allude to?

[TheBluePrince]

double post

[TheBluePrince]

From the link i put on the other page...

"The English novelist William Kingston wrote 'books for boys', and in 1864 published Ernest Bracebridge, or, Schoolboy Days, which includes this scene:

Ellis seized the bat with a convulsive clutch... Remembering Ernest's advice, he kept his eye on the ball, and hit it so fairly that he sent it flying away to a considerable distance. "Capital!" cried Ernest. "Run! run! - two bases at least."

[Mosco]

Originally Posted by TheBluePrince

From the link i put on the other page...

"The English novelist William Kingston wrote 'books for boys', and in 1864 published Ernest Bracebridge, or, Schoolboy Days, which includes this scene:

Ellis seized the bat with a convulsive clutch... Remembering Ernest's advice, he kept his eye on the ball, and hit it so fairly that he sent it flying away to a considerable distance. "Capital!" cried Ernest. "Run! run! - two bases at least."

Blue - keep trying, mate. You're still at square one. The way it is used in this context is NOT an idiom, but rather a literal description of an action. The subject here is keeping his LITERAL eye on the LITERAL ball - I know you should be able to tell the difference between that, and metaphorical use.

[ParisDakarBmw]

A left jab, followed by a right...Blue Prince stumbles but refuses to go down...Mosco has a second wind, and sees blood. Can he finish him off? The boxers level off...

[WatchTimes]

I got money on the Crushin Russian!!

I hear Gregs uncle is Nikolai Volkoff

Greg grew up training under him and the Iron Shiek!!!

Ladies and Gentleman..... LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE!!!

Ding Ding Ding

[TheBluePrince]

Originally Posted by Mosco

Blue - keep trying, mate. You're still at square one. The way it is used in this context is NOT an idiom, but rather a literal description of an action. The subject here is keeping his LITERAL eye on the LITERAL ball - I know you should be able to tell the difference between that, and metaphorical use.

Yes, and that's an instance of it's use and obviously where the subsequent phrase came from in relation to it's use for ball sports.

You have no sources or proof, other than heresay and old wives tales passed down by railway workers.

And if you believe them then by the same rule you must belive the same heresay and old wives tales that come from the timing ball and the old mariners. So if you belive your source then you must logically believe the same types of source about the timing ball (Which started 60 years before the earliest possible date that the railway ball stories could have started.). If you do not then your opinion is plainly biased, illogical and you're openly refusing to see the truth. I see, have learned about and accept that the railway people started using the phrase in relation to their Ball clocks but i can plainly and sensibly deduce that it's use was already happening long before this.

Your failure to accept or consider any source or idea other than your own shows a clear lack of understanding, reasoning, ability to carry out informed debate and a stubborn refusal to be "wrong" no matter what evidence is presented before you. This is sad as it's not a matter of being wrong or right, it's a matter of learning, gaining knowledge and improving one's self. I accepted your source/story assimilated it into my knowledge along with the other information i knew about and was thus able to draw up a time line of the use of the phrase and how it started to be used in three distinct and seperate cases. You're refusing to see anything other than what you were told and believe. Such an attitude as yours will only hinder your learning and ability to reason, i'm sorry that you continue to think and respond that way.

[everose]

This thread is all......"balls "


Careful the Ninja Mod does not remove such!!!!!

[TheBluePrince]

Originally Posted by everose

This thread is all......"balls "


Careful the Ninja Mod does not remove such!!!!!

I know, it's amusing.

The worst thing is that Ball went from greatness back then to making gaudy watches that light up like tacky christmas tree's now.

[ParisDakarBmw]

Blue Prince is on the offensive..Mosco has several un-answered shots...Blue Pince is working Mosco like a punching bag..Is he just going to stand there?

[TheBluePrince]

It's just going to go around in circles now. Nothing i say or relate to or post reference to is going to make him back down or change/open his mind to anything other than what he already believes. He'll just blindly refuse to be wrong or consider anything else. One of the mods already said this would happen so i guess it's a known thing about his character on here.

[Welshwatchman]

Originally Posted by TheBluePrince

It's just going to go around in circles now. Nothing i say or relate to or post reference to is going to make him back down or change/open his mind to anything other than what he already believes. He'll just blindly refuse to be wrong or consider anything else. One of the mods already said this would happen so i guess it's a known thing about his character on here.

Indeed.

I am always on the ball with my predictions.

BTW - Greg is just joshing with you. He likes the chase more than the kill.

[TheBluePrince]

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

Indeed.

I am always on the ball with my predictions.

BTW - Greg is just joshing with you. He likes the chase more than the kill.

Aaahhh, he's just a troll. That makes sense, and better than just being as closed minded as he apeeared or pretended to be

[Mosco]

Originally Posted by TheBluePrince

Aaahhh, he's just a troll. That makes sense, and better than just being as closed minded as he apeeared or pretended to be

Now you simply need to watch your mouth. At no point did I personally attack you or call you names. But since the gloves are off...

Being closed-minded equals to not accepting your point - interesting concept.

However, I don't feel the need to defend your accusation of me being a 'troll' whatsoever, since people who actually know me around here, I bet, would attest to the contrary. I'm sure there are one or two who'll jump on your squeaky bandwagon, and I'm fine with that. You can have them, sweetheart.

You felt the need to 'disprove' my original post, not vice-versa. Didn't get enough star-stickers in elementary school, eh?

All you have proven thus far is that the word 'EYE' and the word 'BALL' were used in the same sentence prior to the railroad use. Here's a cookie. You keep saying that I am going by a wives tale, or some railway person's account. Wrong. As Jeremy pointed out, and I am assuming he gained this knowledge from the same place I did, is that someone intimately tied with the founding family (who is from this area) stated (and I have a reason to believe them over you any-day of the week) that 'being on the Ball', when refers to timekeeping, originated with the railroad use of Ball Watch Company clocks.

Lastly, your attack of the brand is unfounded. There are several respected members of this forum who own these "gaudy watches that light up like tacky christmas tree's" as you say, and we have an unspoken rule 'round here to not attack others' tastes and horological possessions. Got that, sweetheart?

[ParisDakarBmw]

MOSCO KNOCKED HIS JAW LOOSE WITH AN UPPERCUT! Blue Prince hit below the belt and tasted a knuckle sandwich. Blue prince is down on the mat! Can he get up!

We may have seen a K.O. from Mosco.....

Ther ref's counting

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3


4

[TheBluePrince]

Originally Posted by Mosco

Now you simply need to watch your mouth. At no point did I personally attack you or call you names. But since the gloves are off...

Being closed-minded equals to not accepting your point - interesting concept.

However, I don't feel the need to defend your accusation of me being a 'troll' whatsoever, since people who actually know me around here, I bet, would attest to the contrary. I'm sure there are one or two who'll jump on your squeaky bandwagon, and I'm fine with that. You can have them, sweetheart.

You felt the need to 'disprove' my original post, not vice-versa. Didn't get enough star-stickers in elementary school, eh?

All you have proven thus far is that the word 'EYE' and the word 'BALL' were used in the same sentence prior to the railroad use. Here's a cookie. You keep saying that I am going by a wives tale, or some railway person's account. Wrong. As Jeremy pointed out, and I am assuming he gained this knowledge from the same place I did, is that someone intimately tied with the founding family (who is from this area) stated (and I have a reason to believe them over you any-day of the week) that 'being on the Ball', when refers to timekeeping, originated with the railroad use of Ball Watch Company clocks.

Lastly, your attack of the brand is unfounded. There are several respected members of this forum who own these "gaudy watches that light up like tacky christmas tree's" as you say, and we have an unspoken rule 'round here to not attack others' tastes and horological possessions. Got that, sweetheart?

Sweetheart Hahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaa I like that, you make me Can i call you darling?

I didn't think you were a troll, but you were called out to be by a mod. So i guessed he know's what he's talking about? "Greg is just joshing with you. He likes the chase more than the kill." - That's pretty much a description of trolling in my book. I guess if you're being called out like that you should ask why?

Ok, like i said before more than once - I totally agree that the phrase emerged on the railroads sometime after 1891. I never doubted that. It's not a matter of believing me over them or vice versa, as i agree with them.

BUT, as i have pointed out but you seem to be unable to comprehend or understand, it also emerged from two other sources, long before 1891.

When you first posted and claimed it orginated on the railways you didn't know about, didn't research or consider other posabilites of the origin of the phrase and i pointed them out.

Please tell me, if you don't believe that it was used in relation to the timing ball that dates from 1831, why don't you? Do you simply not believe the phrase was used about it? Despite hundreds of people, historians, sailors, mariners etc saying it was, the knowledge passed down through generations - just like on the railways? Or are you claiming that although it was it was not used until after 1891ish when it was first used on the railways? So it was there, with people setting the time by it, being "on the ball" for over 60 years before the phrase was used to talk about it?

And do you also not believe that with all the ball sports played in the 19th century, that no-one used the phrase in relation to them before 1891? Despite proven littery use of the phrase in relation to sports which of course you're ignoring as it doesn't suit your argument.

The overwhelming weight of probability points towards the phrase being used elsewhere before it was on the railways in 1891.

Ball watches light up like fairy lights. Some like it, some don't, nothing i or you can do about that. They're marmite watches and each to their own.

[Mosco]

Originally Posted by ParisDakarBmw

MOSCO KNOCKED HIS JAW LOOSE WITH AN UPPERCUT! Blue Prince hit below the belt and tasted a knuckle sandwich. Blue prince is down on the mat! Can he get up!

We may have seen a K.O. from Mosco.....

Ther ref's counting

1


2


3


4

You're an instigator


Bleu cheese Ok, fine - this is going nowhere, as you keep alluding to these "hundreds of people, historians, sailors, mariners etc", but you haven't quoted a single one with a verifiable reference. I realize that neither have I, so guess we're at a dead-end.

[TheBluePrince]

Fair enough

[johnswatch]

This is one of the funniest threads I've read in ages.

Here’s a surprise challenger from

Just to weigh in for the fun of it, surely the sporting etymology is more likely to be correct. It's easier to believe that being 'on the ball' refers to keeping your eye on the ball rather than a conductor's timepiece. If that had been the case it would have been 'he's on A Ball' surely?

I often hear people saying 'he's got his eye on the ball; of which 'on the ball' is just a shortening. It's quite likely that the railroad connection is something dreamt up by Ball Watch Company's marketing dept....

[ParisDakarBmw]

Blue Prince sprung from the ground and shocked the crowd. He limped over to Mosco with a bloody nose, and swolen eye. After a few jabs from the contenders, solid body shots are exchanged.

Blue Prince darts left, missing a blow. Mosco centers up and ducks & bobs.

What's this? A crazy fan has entered the ring! The man is wearing a "Johns Watch" t-shirt and daisy dukes! I can't believe this......Fans, we have a third fighter swinging at Mosco.

Unbeleavable! What a fight!

[ParisDakarBmw]

The phrase actually originated from a circus in 1852. The middle performance was a small squirrell monkey walking on a giant ball. When the show was on time, the ringleader would say "On the ball".............

Try that one on for size!

[Mosco]

Paul,

your theory is incorrect. It originated in 1775 as a result of a Norwegian classical composer Fredriksen who, until losing a testicle in a freak butter-churning accident, couldn't write a worthy overture to save his life. Since becoming 'mono-testicular', he sat down 'on the ball' and wrote one of the best pieces of classical music known to man. Coincidence - maybe. We will never know.

[ParisDakarBmw]

Originally Posted by Mosco

Paul,

your theory is incorrect. It originated in 1775 as a result of a Norwegian classical composer Fredriksen who, until losing a testicle in a freak butter-churning accident, couldn't write a worthy overture to save his life. Since becoming 'mono-testicular', he sat down 'on the ball' and wrote one of the best pieces of classical music known to man. Coincidence - maybe. We will never know.

Now that was good!

check this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=los_c...eature=related

[Mosco]

Originally Posted by ParisDakarBmw

Now that was good!

check this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=los_c...eature=related

Bwahahahahaha!!! Wow!!!

[clew84]

Check this out: refutes the UK source of the term "on the ball".

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-ont5.htm

And this source is split to some degree:

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/on-the-ball.html

Therefore, the answer is murky at best. I think what makes sense is that the phrase "on the ball" as it relates to a timely arrival of a train, is most likely attributed to the Ball Watch Co.

Boom goes the dynamite.

[Kokyuryoku]

This is a funny thread.

[TheBluePrince]

Originally Posted by clew84

Check this out: refutes the UK source of the term "on the ball".

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-ont5.htm

And this source is split to some degree:

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/on-the-ball.html

Therefore, the answer is murky at best. I think what makes sense is that the phrase "on the ball" as it relates to a timely arrival of a train, is most likely attributed to the Ball Watch Co.

Boom goes the dynamite.

Thing is with the dictionary of American slang though, it's exactly that. It's not taking into account usage anywhere else other than America. And it doesn't mention trains or Ball clocks at all, just sport. Also the phrase was already in use in Britain in the 1860's in relation to sport as proven already so it wasn't exported from america in relation to sport. And it states that the timing ball was in use in 1833 but then ignore that fact. So that first link is pretty much completely wrong both on the origin of the phrase in America and Europe. And the second link calls it between the timing ball and sports. So how you deduce from them that it's from the trains i don't know

[Kokyuryoku]

Originally Posted by johnswatch

It's quite likely that the railroad connection is something dreamt up by Ball Watch Company's marketing dept....

This makes sense too

[ParisDakarBmw]

This has turned into a drunken bar brawl! Fist are flying all over the place!

[TheBluePrince]

Originally Posted by Kokyuryoku

This makes sense too

Yes, especially as the two guys on this thread who heard that heard it from actual Ball employees, as Greg said "someone intimately tied with the founding (Ball) family"

This definitely add's weight to the argument that Ball made it up as a fantastic piece of marketing.

Even so, i can definitely see that it could and perhaps most likely did come from this source in the US. Just as it's equally likely that it came from a timing ball or ball sports in the UK a few decades before.