Random serial numbers- for or against, and why?

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by Saxon007

I think on the used market the "random" serial numbers will increase the demand for watches with original paperwork since the warranty card can be used to date when the watch was sold. In other words, watches with box and papers will carry a higher premium than they do currently.

Personally, I don't care what the serial number says as long as the watch is genuine.

Quite right!! The original warranty plastic card with date will now be a must when buying a used Rolex a few years down the line.

JJ

[Zed Homme]

I wonder how long it will take for some disgruntled employee or computer hacker to reveal the secret to the new "random" numbering system. I'm sure that to some degree rolex will keep track of production dates...

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by Zed Homme

I wonder how long it will take for some disgruntled employee or computer hacker to reveal the secret to the new "random" numbering system. I'm sure that to some degree rolex will keep track of production dates...

Good point, Chris............but as I see these new numbers, doesn't look like there's any secret to them. They are so random and inconsistent that it would ONLY be possible to approximate the year of manufacture from the DATE on the original warranty card.

JJ

[chris russell]

Originally Posted by Tools

I agree with Padi...

The idea that a watch has been sitting for some amount of time, and is, therefore, less desireable than another is ludicrous, or at the very least, silly..

No other watchmaker on the planet has to put up with the silliness about "how old is your watch", or even more recently "What series is your Rolex?".. as if one number is less worthy than another..

As a 'for instance', we all know that the Daytona has had hand and dial changes, ('fat hands', etc.), since it was introduced in 2000. If you happened to be in the market for a Daytona, and the one the dealer offered you at present MSRP less any discount you could negotiate, you could see it was the 'skinny hands', and had originally been priced thousands less; would you grab that one rather than the one across town that you could see was years newer in features, at the same price? If you say you would, I would say you were being deliberately disingenuous.

The reason no other watchmaker has to 'put up with the silliness' of 'how old is your watch' is because NO other watchmaker enjoys the popularity and the desirability, nor the close following of its every new feature and design change, however slight, as Rolex. I can absolutely guarantee you that every other watch manufacturer on the planet would gladly trade their level of popularity and yearly sales for Rolex's, even if it meant having to 'put up with' people tracking their serial numbers for production dates and small changes. Trust me on that.

[Zed Homme]

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

Good point, Chris............but as I see these new numbers, doesn't look like there's any secret to them. They are so random and inconsistent that it would ONLY be possible to approximate the year of manufacture from the DATE on the original warranty card.

JJ

I've never worked in encryption, but it is theoretically possible that there is a long string algorithm that determines the numbers. Then again, I could be reading way too much into this. I agree that the warranty card now becomes more important...

[chris russell]

Originally Posted by padi56

Lets be perfectly honest here Chris most of the Rolex watches especially sports types are not long enough at ADs to gather dust most are gone as soon as AD gets them in. Its only the slower moving models might be at ADs a bit longer. Rolex watches will always command a high resale value no matter what the case date stamp.

However, you won't have to look very far on this very Forum for a post from a disgruntled recipient of a gift Rolex that his wife was led to believe was new, but turned out to be several years old. And she indeed paid more than the watch's original MSRP, despite being told she was getting a 'discount'.

I can absolutely GUARANTEE that tt Rolexes, and especially gold Rolexes, COMMONLY stay in inventory for five or MORE years before moving. If you can give me a logical reason why the customer should be PREVENTED from knowing the production date of a watch he/she is spending hard-earned money on, I will shut up. But we know that won't happen because there is none. I can accept that the vast majority of customers may not care, and that's their prerogative, but to PREVENT me from knowing, when service costs $800? Can't happen.

So, seriously, Padi, please answer the question.

[Zed Homme]

I also wonder if this will make quality control harder for rolex. If a flaw with a certain production run develops, it would be hard for rolex to rectify the problem if there is no way to track their products.

[chris russell]

Originally Posted by Zed Homme

I also wonder if this will make quality control harder for rolex. If a flaw with a certain production run develops, it would be hard for Rolex to rectify the problem if there is no way to track their products.

made. It's their tracking system, and their computer records will be 100% complete and up-to-date at all times. The question is whether they will consider it any of YOUR damned business when the watch was made.

[Zed Homme]

Originally Posted by chris russell

made. It's their tracking system, and their computer records will be 100% complete and up-to-date at all times.

Of course! Now I feel a little stupid for my last post. Somebody will hack it, and we'll debate whether the info shared is accurate...

[Welshwatchman]

I note that my dealer still has a lovely black dialled 2003 Y DD in the display cabinet with the new full price and all stickers attached. I've tried it on three times over the years.

A seven year old new watch that's been in the display window in direct sunlight.

Service required perhaps?

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

Service required perhaps?

Good point, Paul. What happens to watches that have been sitting in AD windows for 5 years or more? Would they need to be re-serviced before being sold to some innocent customer?

JJ

[tgoose1]

No, because Rolex knows that realistic service intervals is greater than 5-years, except for watches used under extreme conditions, and certainly for new watches sitting in a display case for a number of years.

[CoopJr]

If we are going to loosley base a $500+ servicing around the watch's date, I find it peculiar that some folks think dating a watch isnt important. Just my 2 cents.

[buke45]

I just bought a used 2 daytona white dial F series. I had alot of diff choices and the age of tha watch played a big part. How can someone say it does not matter how old a watch is. After all it is a machine. It only benefits a seller never a buyer. Just my 2cents

[MortgageGuy]

I think it is terrible...: I dont believe anyone is alright with this new "system". It is geared to make more $$$ for the Ad's and screw the consumer... If you say your ok with it, let me ask you this...

Its 2010, are you ok buying a BRAND NEW 2002 Mercedes Benz E Class for $60,000.00 USD (the 2010 price)? WHY NOT??? Its brand new and has a full factory warranty...so what if the features are slightly different or the body style has changed ever so slightly... ITS BRAND NEW!!!

Come on, give me a break this is bad for the consumer, you know it, I know it... PERIOD

[MortgageGuy]

Originally Posted by Saxon007

I think on the used market the "random" serial numbers will increase the demand for watches with original paperwork since the warranty card can be used to date when the watch was sold. In other words, watches with box and papers will carry a higher premium than they do currently.

Personally, I don't care what the serial number says as long as the watch is genuine.

You are 100% correct... for V back we will be fine but going forward, I believe without papers (card) you will be worth substantially less than the current price different...

Great point

[Rolex Junky]

Tough luck. Its here to stay. Deal with it.

[Johny]

new or new old stock i just want to know which is which. it seems to me to be a very basic piece of information. The "random serial numbers" are not random. They are just new. No one has worked them out yet. I would imagine that once someone has worked them out they will be pretty straightforward or maybe not. I can see the point of buying something new and expecting it to be new. your money is new. imho

[Rolex Junky]

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

Quite right!! The original warranty plastic card with date will now be a must when buying a used Rolex a few years down the line.JJ

Now the counterfeiters have one more item to mass produce.

[The GMT Master]

Originally Posted by MortgageGuy

I think it is terrible...: I dont believe anyone is alright with this new "system". It is geared to make more $$$ for the Ad's and screw the consumer... If you say your ok with it, let me ask you this...

Its 2010, are you ok buying a BRAND NEW 2002 Mercedes Benz E Class for $60,000.00 USD (the 2010 price)? WHY NOT??? Its brand new and has a full factory warranty...so what if the features are slightly different or the body style has changed ever so slightly... ITS BRAND NEW!!!

Come on, give me a break this is bad for the consumer, you know it, I know it... PERIOD

Whilst I appreciate the analogy, it's not quite the same as what's happening with Rolex. In your analogy, it'd be the same as, for example, selling a 16200 BNIB for the same price as a 116200 through an AD. This simply doesn't happen - when models are discontinued, they remain at the old price (with relative price increases if there's a universal rise), and are not sold at the same price as the new model.

The issue that people have with Rolex is that they could be selling a watch that's been sitting in stock for an extended period of time for the same price as one that's come direct from the factory. I don't have a problem with this - the watch isn't in use, modern lubricants don't dry out anywhere near as quickly as older oils, and if it's been looked after properly by AD staff, it'll be in perfect condition. It won't affect the running of the watch, and even if it did, there's a two year warranty to cover this. The problem is, serial number hysteria is becoming a serious problem for ADs - why should they order another watch when there's a perfectly good one in stock, just to get a perceived "newer" case stamp? It makes no business sense whatsoever - ADs have to make a living as well, and the margins aren't as big as you'd think.

Take, for example, the case in this thread: the 116200 hasn't changed at all, a D serial is identical to a V serial. The client got a factory fresh watch direct from Rolex, but this wasn't seen as good enough. As far as Rolex (and myself) are concerned, the client was getting a brand new Datejust, yet the growing opinion is that unless it's the latest serial number, it's not good enough. This is simply ludicrous, and I'm looking forward to not having to deal with such nonsense any more


Just my

[pcst]

Originally Posted by Saxon007

Personally, I don't care what the serial number says as long as the watch is genuine.

Amen

[MortgageGuy]

Originally Posted by The GMT Master

Whilst I appreciate the analogy, it's not quite the same as what's happening with Rolex. In your analogy, it'd be the same as, for example, selling a 16200 BNIB for the same price as a 116200 through an AD. This simply doesn't happen - when models are discontinued, they remain at the old price (with relative price increases if there's a universal rise), and are not sold at the same price as the new model.

The issue that people have with Rolex is that they could be selling a watch that's been sitting in stock for an extended period of time for the same price as one that's come direct from the factory. I don't have a problem with this - the watch isn't in use, modern lubricants don't dry out anywhere near as quickly as older oils, and if it's been looked after properly by AD staff, it'll be in perfect condition. It won't affect the running of the watch, and even if it did, there's a two year warranty to cover this. The problem is, serial number hysteria is becoming a serious problem for ADs - why should they order another watch when there's a perfectly good one in stock, just to get a perceived "newer" case stamp? It makes no business sense whatsoever - ADs have to make a living as well, and the margins aren't as big as you'd think.

Take, for example, the case in this thread: the 116200 hasn't changed at all, a D serial is identical to a V serial. The client got a factory fresh watch direct from Rolex, but this wasn't seen as good enough. As far as Rolex (and myself) are concerned, the client was getting a brand new Datejust, yet the growing opinion is that unless it's the latest serial number, it's not good enough. This is simply ludicrous, and I'm looking forward to not having to deal with such nonsense any more


Just my

I respect your opinion as well... I agree that the difference from M to V is NILL... However, a D watch from 05/06 that retailed for $3k and now the AD sells at 5400 because of price increases... That doesnt quite seem fair.


I have no problem with selling "NEW" old stock however I do have a problem to continue to mark up the price with all the price increases... This is dishonest IMO. I think they should be sold at the price the were initially...

If Mercedes does a mid year price increase which happens all the time, there could be 2 2010 models on the lot with exactly the same options/packages... and one would be $600-1500 less... They do not peel off the window sticker off the window and stick a new one on for a higher price... Yet this is what Rolex AD's do... Its an unethical practice, justify if anyway you want to but its unethical. Why is this not the case for ROLEX AD's???

PROFIT, thats why

[Chipmunk]

Even if I'm against it, there's nothing I can do about it. It would be
hard though to determine the next service schedule if you got a preowned.

[springbar]

Originally Posted by chris russell

As a 'for instance', we all know that the Daytona has had hand and dial changes, ('fat hands', etc.), since it was introduced in 2000. If you happened to be in the market for a Daytona, and the one the dealer offered you at present MSRP less any discount you could negotiate, you could see it was the 'skinny hands', and had originally been priced thousands less; would you grab that one rather than the one across town that you could see was years newer in features, at the same price? If you say you would, I would say you were being deliberately disingenuous.

A few months ago, I knowingly bought a new, old stock non-COSC 14060M instead of the new model with its COSC certification and engraved rehaut - and for more than its original MSRP. Do you think I'm being deliberately disingenuous?

Price and availability is subject to change. The number on the price tag is today's price - not a guarantee of the sale price five years in the future. If you must have it at today's price, buy it today.

This is true of all products everywhere.

[SSSS]

I recently looked at a DJ Tuxedo with a leather strap and clasp. I noticed that it didn't have a roulette date which that dial is supposed to come with. When I checked the serial, it started with a D. I inquired about it from the AD. Her response was they've had that watch 'for a few years'.

How'd ya like to buy something like with the dough we're spending on these watches?

I see this randomizing of serials as nothing more that Rolex's way of hiding old stock which they undoubtedly have a lot these days. The thing that bothers me about this is that this old stock could be sitting for years before they start up after someone buys them. This can't be good for the movement and will likely necessitate premature service based on the purchase date.

[BigWatchFan]

Originally Posted by TheDude

Perhaps Rolex will be able to confirm 100% of SN queries about watches built from 2010 on...

They may be able to confirm 100% of the queries but do they really share that info?? In other words, if I give Rolex a serial number, will they respond and give me its date of manufacture? If so, then good for them and no harm done.

For my part, I'd be AMAZED if they did ANYTHING resembling that, given their penchant for secrecy!

[BigWatchFan]

Originally Posted by Saxon007

I think on the used market the "random" serial numbers will increase the demand for watches with original paperwork since the warranty card can be used to date when the watch was sold. In other words, watches with box and papers will carry a higher premium than they do currently.

Conversely, there goes the market for "open" papers...

[BigWatchFan]

Originally Posted by chris russell

If you can give me a logical reason why the customer should be PREVENTED from knowing the production date of a watch he/she is spending hard-earned money on, I will shut up. But we know that won't happen because there is none. I can accept that the vast majority of customers may not care, and that's their prerogative, but to PREVENT me from knowing, when service costs $800? Can't happen.

The logical reason is that serving Rolex's needs as a business has a MUCH higher priority than serving your needs as a customer. No contest.

[Art 1]

I really don't care.

[Speed]

Originally Posted by chris russell

.

The reason no other watchmaker has to 'put up with the silliness' of 'how old is your watch' is because NO other watchmaker enjoys the popularity and the desirability, nor the close following of its every new feature and design change, however slight, as Rolex. I can absolutely guarantee you that every other watch manufacturer on the planet would gladly trade their level of popularity and yearly sales for Rolex's, even if it meant having to 'put up with' people tracking their serial numbers for production dates and small changes. Trust me on that.

Very well said Chris!!!