ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

chrono1g · 12 October 2010, 07:27 AM

^

This kid is retarded. He clearly knows nothing about watches.

457689 · 12 October 2010, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1000ft

Sorry 'dudes'. I'll keep to myself. Enjoy your g-shocks.

Case and Point

Frogman4me · 12 October 2010, 07:31 AM

Hahaha g shocks are made by casio, not seiko. Owning a rolex does not make you smart

1000ft · 12 October 2010, 07:39 AM

Okay, we're getting a little childish here. You have g-shock watches - enjoy them.

slevin kelevra · 12 October 2010, 07:55 AM

So between the New Sub and no offence, a Seiko there are some guys on here who would have the Seiko?? I realise that Seiko has gret history but so does Rolex.

You could give me 10 seikos or the Sub and I'd still choose the Sub.

Each to their own I guess......

chrono1g · 12 October 2010, 08:16 AM

If you find both watches to be equally pleasing (aesthetically), i highly recommend you look into the seiko! You really have to see and feel the GSSD in person to truly appreciate it for what it is. Before seeing one in person, i was rather skeptic. But when i visited Tokyo a few months ago and saw one for myself, the rest was history. I purchased it on the spot. The build quality was unquestionably superior to my old subc. The GSSD is quite the value, really. On the other hand, if brand recognition is a top concern for you, go with the rolex.

You can't go wrong with either option!

multimedia · 12 October 2010, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roxas

I think it's about 30 years. IMO, GS Spring Drive is superior than Rolex in every way except brand recognition and resale value.

I agree 100%

Quote:

Originally Posted by slevin kelevra

So between the New Sub and no offence, a Seiko there are some guys on here who would have the Seiko??

Personally, I would choose the Grand Seiko over the New Sub, any day of the week.

Cheers,
Joe

AA717driver · 12 October 2010, 02:40 PM

Does one HAVE to be "better" than the other? The GS is a great watch, I'm sure.

It has a cachet--in Asia and among watch geeks (not a negative term).

Rolex is what it is for a reason. It's recognized WORLDWIDE (and is AVAILABLE worldwide) for its consistency and quality.

If the folks who build the GS want to avoid these discussions among watch geeks, they'd best get cracking on that world wide distribution network.

I'd love to have a GS. It's a great piece but until I can go down to my AD (instead of flying to NRT), I don't think it can truly be considered the "equal" of Rolex. JMO.

TC

BH13GMT · 12 October 2010, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AA717driver

Does one HAVE to be "better" than the other? The GS is a great watch, I'm sure.

It has a cachet--in Asia and among watch geeks (not a negative term).

Rolex is what it is for a reason. It's recognized WORLDWIDE (and is AVAILABLE worldwide) for its consistency and quality.

If the folks who build the GS want to avoid these discussions among watch geeks, they'd best get cracking on that world wide distribution network.

I'd love to have a GS. It's a great piece but until I can go down to my AD (instead of flying to NRT), I don't think it can truly be considered the "equal" of Rolex. JMO.

TC

This Echo's my view, spot on. I would have a GS as well as a Rolex Diver prob SDDS. if it was an "either or" scenario I would go Rolex for the reasons posted above.
If I saw a guy with any Grand Seiko on his wrist I would consider him a well informed wearer of fine watches.

Roxas · 13 October 2010, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slevin kelevra

So between the New Sub and no offence, a Seiko there are some guys on here who would have the Seiko?? I realise that Seiko has gret history but so does Rolex.

You could give me 10 seikos or the Sub and I'd still choose the Sub.

Each to their own I guess......

Do you know about Grand Seiko Spring Drive? For me, if somebody will give me 10 GS Spring Drive or a Sub, it is no brainer to choose.

FYI, the MSRP of GS Spring Drive is about the same as Sub C.

austinnh · 12 October 2010, 01:04 PM

This post contains first some opinions about brand names, then some technical thoughts about GS movements, then some opinions about GS aesthetics.

Brand names:

Many people gladly and openly choose a Rolex over Seiko just because of the brand name. To each his own, but I think it's silly to pay so much money for just a name.

I am personally of the opinion that brands like Acura and Lexus and Infinity etc are just meaningless wrappers to confuse the ignorant. Someone who knows any thing about cars knows that an Acura is a Honda, Lexus a Toyota, and Infinity a Nissan etc. I really hope Seiko does not create such a ghost brand. If it's make by Seiko, it should say Seiko on the dial.

Movements:

Now that I'm past all that brand name stuff, from everything I've heard and read the Seiko is of excellent quality. I love the principle of the Spring Drive movement. But it has not yet taken the test of time. Exploded diagrams of Grand Seiko mechanical watches appear to show MANY more moving parts that the Swiss counterparts, which concerns me from the standpoint of long term servicing and maintenance. The Spring Drive movements in particular appear to have the Seiko "magic lever" winding system, which I'm not too fond of. Seiko has all but admitted that the "magic lever" is inferior by giving the 9S65 movement a conventional reverser mechanism and thereby improving the efficiency (according to Seiya's website [1]).

[1] http://www.seiyajapan.com/product/S-...o-SBGR051.html

Aesthetics:

But my BIGGEST problem with the GS diver is just that it's so darn ugly. In fact this is my problem with most of the Grand Seiko watches. I've only seen them in pictures so maybe I'd like them in person. But to my eye, they just don't look good. No matter how technically superior a watch may be, I must like the way it looks in order to consider buying it.

Just my thoughts,
-Austin

EDIT: Oh yeah and most of the GS lineup is too big in my opinion (for my wrists).

Tachymeter · 12 October 2010, 01:52 PM

I had the chance to view them both during my last trip to Japan. The Seiko is truly magnificent, I only wish it wasn't so large, at 42mm it would be perfect!

Both watches are great to wear and have their own perks. It would be tough to decide a clear winner.

dwr · 12 October 2010, 02:57 PM

I like both, have had good experiences with mulitple Seikos. They are like Honda, very dependable maintance free.

marshallr47 · 12 October 2010, 03:00 PM

After doing some research, I find the GS very interesting. Seiko has a great history. They make all their parts in-house. Even high end Swiss watches hire out for movements..not that theres anything wrong with it. However, I have respect for a watch company that can produce their own movements. If I were given a choice between Rolex or Seiko, I'd chose Rolex. Not because Seiko is inferior, but because I love the Rolex tradition. Great discussion.

457689 · 12 October 2010, 03:25 PM

I have a Grand Seiko SBGR023. It is simply the most beautiful work of art you'll ever find:

Baco Noir · 12 October 2010, 03:35 PM

I have a regular Seiko Orange Monster and I love the styling on that watch. The Grand Seiko Diver, while far superior on the inside to the Monster, does not cut it for me on the stlying at all - hands and bracelet are

n: for me. I'd take the Sub C anyday.

457689 · 12 October 2010, 03:50 PM

I agree. The Grand Seiko Spring Drive watch is ugly, like someone hit it with the ugly stick for 3 weeks straight.

HOWEVER,

how bout this Seiko diver. Not a spring drive, uses the 8L35 movement (a notch down from the 9S55's found in the Grand Seikos), it's the SBDX001 Marinemaster:

le_baroudeur · 12 October 2010, 04:07 PM

the sbdx001 marinemaster is BIG compared to the submariner... And it seems to be less accurate.

457689 · 12 October 2010, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by le_baroudeur

the sbdx001 marinemaster is BIG compared to the submariner... And it seems to be less accurate.

you know, I should do a side by side of the two and do an accuracy test on the two.

my camera is broken and I'm working to pay off the sub, so, soon I will

multimedia · 12 October 2010, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by le_baroudeur

the sbdx001 marinemaster is BIG compared to the submariner... And it seems to be less accurate.

Let internet be you friend.

Comparative Review: Seiko SBDX001 Marinemaster vs Rolex 16610LV

Cheers,
Joe

457689 · 13 October 2010, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by multimedia

Let internet be you friend.

Comparative Review: Seiko SBDX001 Marinemaster vs Rolex 16610LV

Cheers,
Joe

that's what i tell my wife when she catches me late at night on the internet...

lordcon · 13 October 2010, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by le_baroudeur

the sbdx001 marinemaster is BIG compared to the submariner... And it seems to be less accurate.

I had a MM300 for about a year and it was much more accurate than any Rolex ive owned.

-j

457689 · 13 October 2010, 04:10 AM

but, but, but....This is a disaster! There's no pedigree in a seiko. They make 30 dollar watches..

autofiend · 13 October 2010, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordcon

I had a MM300 for about a year and it was much more accurate than any Rolex ive owned.

-j

The 8L35 in the MM 300 is basically a non-adjusted Grand Seiko 9S55, with some minor differences. If regulated properly, it is easily capable of exceeding COSC specs. From the factory they are around -10, +15 secs a day. From what I hear, most are within 5 secs a day out of the box.

The MM300 is a great watch--it's on my list.

Andad · 12 October 2010, 05:52 PM

Thanks for the link Joe - an excellent review.

multimedia · 12 October 2010, 07:09 PM

No worries, Eddie. Yeah, that review is great!

Cheers,
Joe

kmleffler · 13 October 2010, 03:09 AM

Thanks for all the responses to the post. As far as I am concerned the only thing that bothers me is that the Seiko warranty for the Grand Seiko is not valid outside of the Far East. However, I have read that Seiko intends to start selling the Grand Seiko in the United States sometime this year.

GradyPhilpott · 13 October 2010, 11:16 AM

The GS seems to owe an awful lot of its styling to both Rolex and Omega.

I can't really speak to the movement, but +/- 15 sec./mo. isn't that spectacular.

I have nothing bad to say about Seiko, but the specs aren't that great for a quartz movement and the styling is derivative to the max.

The beat rate has never really been an issue for me, so that doesn't even count except as a novelty.

vukotab · 13 October 2010, 11:52 AM

I think that I`m alone in this, but I`d rather go for Spring Drive! That`s one distinguished watch, a treasure for the one that KNOWS what he have!
It has real horological marvel inside, and it`s maybe the future of watchmaking.
On the other hand, Sub will always be THE ultimate sport watch, and will surely keep better resale value.
Both remarkable watches, without a doubt!

dogtown · 13 October 2010, 11:56 AM

tell you what I'll take the Sub and you take the Grand Seiko, that deal works for me any time LOL

12 October 2010, 03:00 PM	#14
marshallr47 "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Real Name: Ron Location: Alabama Watch: Daytona,TT Sub,GMT Posts: 4,673	After doing some research, I find the GS very interesting. Seiko has a great history. They make all their parts in-house. Even high end Swiss watches hire out for movements..not that theres anything wrong with it. However, I have respect for a watch company that can produce their own movements. If I were given a choice between Rolex or Seiko, I'd chose Rolex. Not because Seiko is inferior, but because I love the Rolex tradition. Great discussion. __________________ Ron

12 October 2010, 05:52 PM	#25
Andad 2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Real Name: Eddie Location: Australia Watch: A few. Posts: 37,533	Thanks for the link Joe - an excellent review. __________________ E

12 October 2010, 07:09 PM	#26
multimedia "TRF" Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Real Name: Joe Location: Hong Kong Posts: 1,835	No worries, Eddie. Yeah, that review is great! Cheers, Joe __________________ "Design is not just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works." - S.J.

13 October 2010, 11:16 AM	#28
GradyPhilpott 2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: New Mexico Watch: Seiko #SRK047 Posts: 34,460	The GS seems to owe an awful lot of its styling to both Rolex and Omega. I can't really speak to the movement, but +/- 15 sec./mo. isn't that spectacular. I have nothing bad to say about Seiko, but the specs aren't that great for a quartz movement and the styling is derivative to the max. The beat rate has never really been an issue for me, so that doesn't even count except as a novelty. __________________ JJ Inaugural TRF $50 Watch Challenge Winner

13 October 2010, 11:52 AM	#29
vukotab "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Real Name: Vukota Brajovi Location: Belgrade,Serbia Watch: ing movies! Posts: 3,812	I think that I`m alone in this, but I`d rather go for Spring Drive! That`s one distinguished watch, a treasure for the one that KNOWS what he have! It has real horological marvel inside, and it`s maybe the future of watchmaking. On the other hand, Sub will always be THE ultimate sport watch, and will surely keep better resale value. Both remarkable watches, without a doubt! __________________ My fashion blog and Instagram: https://stylebyvukota.com/ https://instagram.com/vukotabrajovic/

12 October 2010, 07:27 AM	#1
chrono1g "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: USA Posts: 147	^ This kid is retarded. He clearly knows nothing about watches.

12 October 2010, 07:31 AM	#3
Frogman4me Banned Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Maryland Posts: 6,268	Hahaha g shocks are made by casio, not seiko. Owning a rolex does not make you smart

12 October 2010, 07:39 AM	#4
1000ft Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Vancouver, B.C Watch: Submariner 14060m Posts: 45	Okay, we're getting a little childish here. You have g-shock watches - enjoy them.

12 October 2010, 07:55 AM	#5
slevin kelevra "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Scotland Watch: 14060m Posts: 631	So between the New Sub and no offence, a Seiko there are some guys on here who would have the Seiko?? I realise that Seiko has gret history but so does Rolex. You could give me 10 seikos or the Sub and I'd still choose the Sub. Each to their own I guess......

12 October 2010, 08:16 AM	#6
chrono1g "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: USA Posts: 147	If you find both watches to be equally pleasing (aesthetically), i highly recommend you look into the seiko! You really have to see and feel the GSSD in person to truly appreciate it for what it is. Before seeing one in person, i was rather skeptic. But when i visited Tokyo a few months ago and saw one for myself, the rest was history. I purchased it on the spot. The build quality was unquestionably superior to my old subc. The GSSD is quite the value, really. On the other hand, if brand recognition is a top concern for you, go with the rolex. You can't go wrong with either option!

12 October 2010, 02:40 PM	#8
AA717driver "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Indianapolis Watch: SSub 14060 "K" Posts: 62	Does one HAVE to be "better" than the other? The GS is a great watch, I'm sure. It has a cachet--in Asia and among watch geeks (not a negative term). Rolex is what it is for a reason. It's recognized WORLDWIDE (and is AVAILABLE worldwide) for its consistency and quality. If the folks who build the GS want to avoid these discussions among watch geeks, they'd best get cracking on that world wide distribution network. I'd love to have a GS. It's a great piece but until I can go down to my AD (instead of flying to NRT), I don't think it can truly be considered the "equal" of Rolex. JMO. TC

12 October 2010, 01:04 PM	#11
austinnh Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Philly Posts: 156	This post contains first some opinions about brand names, then some technical thoughts about GS movements, then some opinions about GS aesthetics. Brand names: Many people gladly and openly choose a Rolex over Seiko just because of the brand name. To each his own, but I think it's silly to pay so much money for just a name. I am personally of the opinion that brands like Acura and Lexus and Infinity etc are just meaningless wrappers to confuse the ignorant. Someone who knows any thing about cars knows that an Acura is a Honda, Lexus a Toyota, and Infinity a Nissan etc. I really hope Seiko does not create such a ghost brand. If it's make by Seiko, it should say Seiko on the dial. Movements: Now that I'm past all that brand name stuff, from everything I've heard and read the Seiko is of excellent quality. I love the principle of the Spring Drive movement. But it has not yet taken the test of time. Exploded diagrams of Grand Seiko mechanical watches appear to show MANY more moving parts that the Swiss counterparts, which concerns me from the standpoint of long term servicing and maintenance. The Spring Drive movements in particular appear to have the Seiko "magic lever" winding system, which I'm not too fond of. Seiko has all but admitted that the "magic lever" is inferior by giving the 9S65 movement a conventional reverser mechanism and thereby improving the efficiency (according to Seiya's website [1]). [1] http://www.seiyajapan.com/product/S-...o-SBGR051.html Aesthetics: But my BIGGEST problem with the GS diver is just that it's so darn ugly. In fact this is my problem with most of the Grand Seiko watches. I've only seen them in pictures so maybe I'd like them in person. But to my eye, they just don't look good. No matter how technically superior a watch may be, I must like the way it looks in order to consider buying it. Just my thoughts, -Austin EDIT: Oh yeah and most of the GS lineup is too big in my opinion (for my wrists).

12 October 2010, 01:52 PM	#12
Tachymeter Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Australia Posts: 82	I had the chance to view them both during my last trip to Japan. The Seiko is truly magnificent, I only wish it wasn't so large, at 42mm it would be perfect! Both watches are great to wear and have their own perks. It would be tough to decide a clear winner.

12 October 2010, 02:57 PM	#13
dwr "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Real Name: Doug R. Location: MidWest USA Watch: Rolex Datejust Posts: 130	I like both, have had good experiences with mulitple Seikos. They are like Honda, very dependable maintance free.

12 October 2010, 03:25 PM	#15
457689 Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Hollywood Posts: 198	I have a Grand Seiko SBGR023. It is simply the most beautiful work of art you'll ever find:

12 October 2010, 03:35 PM	#16
Baco Noir "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Real Name: Roger Location: Colorado Watch: this ya'll Posts: 4,971	I have a regular Seiko Orange Monster and I love the styling on that watch. The Grand Seiko Diver, while far superior on the inside to the Monster, does not cut it for me on the stlying at all - hands and bracelet are n: for me. I'd take the Sub C anyday.

12 October 2010, 03:50 PM	#17
457689 Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Hollywood Posts: 198	I agree. The Grand Seiko Spring Drive watch is ugly, like someone hit it with the ugly stick for 3 weeks straight. HOWEVER, how bout this Seiko diver. Not a spring drive, uses the 8L35 movement (a notch down from the 9S55's found in the Grand Seikos), it's the SBDX001 Marinemaster:

12 October 2010, 04:07 PM	#18
le_baroudeur "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Rennes, FRANCE Posts: 802	the sbdx001 marinemaster is BIG compared to the submariner... And it seems to be less accurate.

13 October 2010, 04:10 AM	#23
457689 Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Hollywood Posts: 198	but, but, but....This is a disaster! There's no pedigree in a seiko. They make 30 dollar watches..

13 October 2010, 03:09 AM	#27
kmleffler "TRF" Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Real Name: Ken Location: New York, NY Watch: GS SD GMT Posts: 389	Thanks for all the responses to the post. As far as I am concerned the only thing that bothers me is that the Seiko warranty for the Grand Seiko is not valid outside of the Far East. However, I have read that Seiko intends to start selling the Grand Seiko in the United States sometime this year.

13 October 2010, 11:56 AM	#30
dogtown "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 12	tell you what I'll take the Sub and you take the Grand Seiko, that deal works for me any time LOL

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