Where is Rolex in the pyramid of Swiss watchmakers?

[bulldogdaddy]

The "rankings" in the chart Patrick posted could probably have been roughed out from memory by any number of WIS's on this forum who have long followed the watch trade.

In terms of newly manufactured watches (not vintage, etc.) THE watch in collector's circles these days is F.P. Journe. Made completely by hand from start to finish by its namesake master watchmaker, each watch is inscribed in Latin "Invenit et Fecit", which is Mr Journe's way of telling everyone "I invented it and I made it". And connoisseurs worldwide are devouring his creations as fast as he can make them at prices beginning around US$40K and soaring to US$200K Guess GQ didnt' catch that ;-)

[AIKO]

Originally Posted by chrono1g

lol @ the brainwashed rolex owners in this thread.

AP, PP, VC, etc >>>>>>>>>>>> rolex

to say that rolex is #1...haha, ridiculous.

It IS a Rolex forum, there are decades of service, generations of watches passed down, ruggedness above most others-forget marketing and image. Those attributes will put Rolex near the top of any pyramid.

[Paracentesis]

Watch ranking fun:

1. PP, VC, JLC, and some of the small companies like Journe.
2. Rolex, IWC
3. Omega, Breitling
4. Others

[chrono1g]

Originally Posted by AIKO

It IS a Rolex forum, there are decades of service, generations of watches passed down, ruggedness above most others-forget marketing and image. Those attributes will put Rolex near the top of any pyramid.

Yeah, it is a rolex forum, but you don't see BMW forum members claiming that their cars are superior to ferraris. completely different league.

[Porsche]

I think we are all missing the forest for the trees...

There is no such thing as "best" in isolation, you need to reference it against something....

eg. What is the "best" car in the world?.
Well, is it best sports car (think Ferrari), luxury car (think RR), all-rounder (maybe BMW M5?)?

So the "best watch? Well, would that be best mecahnical, robust, reliable etc, probably Rolex?

What about if we include things like "handmade" or "complications", or "accuracy"? Could be any of them.

Just saying, I don't believe we can debate "best" without referencing some parameters....

[dddrees]

It just depends on what your ranking is based upon.

Is it based on how much they sell, how much money they gross per year in earnings, or how much their watches cost like the list already provided?

Would you rank them based on the complications they produce? What criteria would you use?

Besides the list provided earlier I can't see how any other list could be anything other than someone's opinion anyway as to which brand is best.

[stalkerman]

As far as marketing and image are concerned Rolex will be near the top of any pyramid! However, when it comes to watch-making excellence, they are FAR from the summit!

I would sum Rolex up as "pile 'em high, sell 'em dear". From a marketing perspective that's the perfect place to be.

That also sits well with the BMW analogy made earlier.

Anyway I think we're still looking for the OP's "definitive pyramid", which I'm guessing establishes some rules to rank the elite of swiss watchmaking.

[kkwn98]

Originally Posted by bulldogdaddy

The "rankings" in the chart Patrick posted could probably have been roughed out from memory by any number of WIS's on this forum who have long followed the watch trade.

In terms of newly manufactured watches (not vintage, etc.) THE watch in collector's circles these days is F.P. Journe. Made completely by hand from start to finish by its namesake master watchmaker, each watch is inscribed in Latin "Invenit et Fecit", which is Mr Journe's way of telling everyone "I invented it and I made it". And connoisseurs worldwide are devouring his creations as fast as he can make them at prices beginning around US$40K and soaring to US$200K Guess GQ didnt' catch that ;-)

While that might have been true when Journe first hit the scene many years ago, that isn't really the case anymore. The genuinely serious crowd these days go for Smith, Dufour, Voutilainen, Ferrier, etc.

[Paracentesis]

Rolex make good-quality, mid-range "beaters". People who bling-up the basic steel models with gold and diamonds are completely missing the point, IMO. Anyone who thinks they are "the best" knows very little about watches, again, IMO.

[SCD]

I'd put it near the top of Swiss watches, which as a group fit just beneath Casio.

[Esquire]

I love Rolex, but it is nowhere near the top.

Rolex is like Apple; great marketing, well-made products, little original innovation, and high prices.

Rolex has not produced a tourbillion at this point. Rolex has not produced a minute repeater. I could go on. To say that Rolex is the pinnacle of watch making is really just ignorant. I have one and will own others, but that's because I like them a lot. I have owned JLC and IWC, and currently own two Omegas. Just my current taste. JLC is the next watch I will purchase and I will own that forever. It is just an absolutely elegant and under-appreciated brand.

[RedwinGV]

Originally Posted by Esquire

I love Rolex, but it is nowhere near the top.

Rolex is like Apple; great marketing, well-made products, little original innovation, and high prices.

Rolex has not produced a tourbillion at this point. Rolex has not produced a minute repeater. I could go on. To say that Rolex is the pinnacle of watch making is really just ignorant. I have one and will own others, but that's because I like them a lot. I have owned JLC and IWC, and currently own two Omegas. Just my current taste. JLC is the next watch I will purchase and I will own that forever. It is just an absolutely elegant and under-appreciated brand.

Great points. Folks, face it, Rolex is a great brand, but great marketing and good pieces have allowed them to command the prices that they do. There are options out there, that just because the Roles crown is missing, doesn't mean they aren't as good or better than a Rolex.

That being said, Rolex does make a great product- but not the only one to do so.

[Xpert37]

Just to be objective, I love Rolex and would own my sub forever. But I agree that it is not the top watchmaker in the world in terms of innovation. Surely, Rolex's reputation and marketing precedes itself and everyone recognizes what the brand means. But there are quite a few underappreciated brands that make supberb watches. I would not categorize Rolex with Patek, Vacheron, GO and etc, but I would group it with JLC, IWC and Zenith.

[Zed Homme]

Originally Posted by chrono1g

lol @ the brainwashed rolex owners in this thread.

AP, PP, VC, etc >>>>>>>>>>>> rolex

to say that rolex is #1...haha, ridiculous.

I couldn't agree more, but that's what you get for a Rolex board. However, these types of responses definitely separate the Rolex aficionados from the true WIS. There are many brands well above Rolex which to me would be like a nicely optioned Toyota camry...

[SS Oyster]

I got this one off here a while ago

[Xpert37]

Originally Posted by SS Oyster

I got this one off here a while ago

This is very nice. Good to know!

[crowncollection]

hi guys. i love rolex, but my father is a watchmaker with 40 years experience and he states inside patek phillipe is the best watch

[onryo]

I think there are two different dynamics at hand here: build quality and brand value. I don't care what a pyramid says, Rolex owns brand value trophy. Build quality is another argument.

[htc8p]

Originally Posted by SS Oyster

I got this one off here a while ago

nice strategic map.

rolex is in a good position. i wouldnt want to spend 100k on a watch

[vancity]

These threads really turn into a circle jerk with rolex owners.

I LOVE my 16750 GMT.....but I've always considered rolex to be middle of the pack when it comes to luxury watches. There also seems to be a lot of omega bashing in these here forums....IMO, rolex and omega are pretty much on par these days when it comes to the quality of build.

[ArcticMoose]

Originally Posted by SS Oyster

I got this one off here a while ago

Interesting!

Are "precious" and "technical" really considered to be mutually exclusive qualities?

[htc8p]

Originally Posted by ArcticMoose

Interesting!

Are "precious" and "technical" really considered to be mutually exclusive qualities?

the brand/company would tend to gravitate towards either of the 2. it would be very difficult to do both

[snowbird]

Originally Posted by Xpert37

I would consider Rolex at the top of luxury watch brands (along with Cartier, JLC and IWC), above Omega and Breitling, but below Patek, Vacheron, Blancpain, Breguet, A. Lange & Sohne, GO, and etc (which I consider to be elite luxury).

I agree. Rolex is certainly the most recognizable luxury watch brand (and my personal favorite), but a step below Patek, Breguet etc.

[masterkiller]

I would say that diagram is about right...

/masterkiller

[Atomant]

It doesn't matter to me. IMO Rolex is in a world of it's own 'a league of it's own'. This is also the reason why I don't feel envious of people with PP, AP or any other brand with significantly higher value. I choose Rolex because its a Rolex.

[duckdown]

Neat graphs and pics in this thread

[jamesbondOO7]

I must confess that I have never been really interested by other brands. Rolex suits me fine, there is not a lot to expect from a watch. I am interested by various car makes but a car is much more interesting than a watch. Watches are a solitary pleasure.....

[speedo]

what a meaningless discussion! what makes a "better" watch?
preciseness? then nothing beats a radio controlled quartz.
complications? if you consider the watch as a tool telling the time, what is the point of complications other than pointlessly proving the craftmanship of its maker?
value? it is pure jewelery not watchmaking. just because pp or vc is worth more, it is better? i doubt it. again it has nothing to do with a watch as an instrument.

there is no objective list. you can't dive in a pp and presumably you won't wear a dssd when getting the nobel laureate.
what we can say i guess that within the mechanical watches there are the in-house movements and the mass produced etas, sellitas, etc. differentating the manufacturers based on that makes sense to me but then what is exactly un or others do in this list?

[Lol-x]

Originally Posted by Esquire

Rolex has not produced a tourbillion at this point. Rolex has not produced a minute repeater. I could go on. To say that Rolex is the pinnacle of watch making is really just ignorant.

Who said Rolex can't produce a tourbillon (not tourbillion ) if they wanted to do so. The technical talent and creative ability at Rolex could easily create haute horological pieces.

Just because Rolex decides to make the watches they do which function extremely well doesn't make them a lesser brand than one who might aim at making a tourbillon watch.

JLC don't make watches with Rolex movements. If you want a JLC then buy a JLC. I've owned a JLC and it was a great watch but it lacked many of the attributes that I get in a Rolex.

Get what you want and don't worry about 'pinnacle' labels.

[speedo]

Originally Posted by SS Oyster

I got this one off here a while ago

interesting indeed. based on this chart, both tag and breitling (both mainly using mass produced movements until very recently) are more "technical" than rolex which uses exclusively in-house movements. good to know.