I thought they didn't make 14060 with SELs? What the??

[moviefreak]

Originally Posted by broncophil

i wouldnt trust any dealer that uses a PTOUCH machine to label their rolex displays

So it is not an original stand...

[Dweller of the Sea]

Originally Posted by broncophil

i wouldnt trust any dealer that uses a PTOUCH machine to label their rolex displays

It´s not an AD

[slevin kelevra]

So do we think that a braclet from a 16610 with lug holes would fit straight on a 14060?


Can anyone confirm if the case on the 16610 with lug holes differs from one without? I know from the pictures posted previously that the 16610 has a lip between the lugs that accepts the SEL and the 14060 doesn't. Is this lip only on 16610's without lug holes??

[moviefreak]

Originally Posted by Dweller of the Sea

It´s not an AD

He said D ... Not AD..

[Johny]

Originally Posted by slevin kelevra

So do we think that a braclet from a 16610 with lug holes would fit straight on a 14060?


Can anyone confirm if the case on the 16610 with lug holes differs from one without? I know from the pictures posted previously that the 16610 has a lip between the lugs that accepts the SEL and the 14060 doesn't. Is this lip only on 16610's without lug holes??

x2. anyone?

[Johny]

bump

[donq]

My A series Sub has lug holes and the cut away for the SEL bracelet. Since the Sub Date uses a different case from the Sub, and the Sub Date case had to be redesigned to accept the SEL bracelet, I don't see how a SEL bracelet would fit a Sub.

[Johny]

Originally Posted by donq

My A series Sub has lug holes and the cut away for the SEL bracelet. Since the Sub Date uses a different case from the Sub, and the Sub Date case had to be redesigned to accept the SEL bracelet, I don't see how a SEL bracelet would fit a Sub.

yes but people on this thread are saying that they have done it.

[donq]

I'm saying the case on my A series (circa 1999) has lugholes AND the cutaway for the SEL bracelet. It came with a hollow end link bracelet. There is not a special SEL bracelet for lughole cases, or they wouldn't have provided the cutaway. Maybe the Sub case is substantially different to the point where the SEL bracelet fits anyway? Seems unlikely to me but possible. Many aftermarket SEL bracelets look similar from the top but differ greatly in actual construction. Could be an aftermarket bracelet. So far only one member has claimed to have done this. He didn't say if the bracelet was genuine or aftermarket, only that it came off his Sub Date.

[slevin kelevra]

Originally Posted by donq

I'm saying the case on my A series (circa 1999) has lugholes AND the cutaway for the SEL bracelet. It came with a hollow end link bracelet. There is not a special SEL bracelet for lughole cases, or they wouldn't have provided the cutaway. Maybe the Sub case is substantially different to the point where the SEL bracelet fits anyway? Seems unlikely to me but possible. Many aftermarket SEL bracelets look similar from the top but differ greatly in actual construction. Could be an aftermarket bracelet. So far only one member has claimed to have done this. He didn't say if the bracelet was genuine or aftermarket, only that it came off his Sub Date.

So, Forgive me if I have read this wrongly but your Sub came with a lug hole case and SEL lip but a non SEL bracelet?

So we think it would accept the SEL bracelet?

That still doesn't help with my question but thanks for the info...

[rms]

Originally Posted by Johny

yes but people on this thread are saying that they have done it.

I have both watches. A Sub Date with Lug Holes / SEL 93250 bracelet and a Sub with standard 93150. If I have a little time this weekend I'll try (carefully) to put the SEL 93250 onto the 14060M. My guess is that it wouldn't fit without at very least forcing the springbars into place by bending them.

Check back on Sunday or Monday morning.

[Johny]

Originally Posted by donq

I'm saying the case on my A series (circa 1999) has lugholes AND the cutaway for the SEL bracelet. It came with a hollow end link bracelet. There is not a special SEL bracelet for lughole cases, or they wouldn't have provided the cutaway. Maybe the Sub case is substantially different to the point where the SEL bracelet fits anyway? Seems unlikely to me but possible. Many aftermarket SEL bracelets look similar from the top but differ greatly in actual construction. Could be an aftermarket bracelet. So far only one member has claimed to have done this. He didn't say if the bracelet was genuine or aftermarket, only that it came off his Sub Date.

so your sub with the cutaways...which model?

[Johny]

Originally Posted by rms

I have both watches. A Sub Date with Lug Holes / SEL 93250 bracelet and a Sub with standard 93150. If I have a little time this weekend I'll try (carefully) to put the SEL 93250 onto the 14060M. My guess is that it wouldn't fit without at very least forcing the springbars into place by bending them.

Check back on Sunday or Monday morning.

great at last. well done richard. it's an interesting puzzle. hoped to hear back from the original poster.

[slevin kelevra]

Great. I'll be keeping an eye on this too.

Thanks

[subtona]

Originally Posted by donq

I'm saying the case on my A series (circa 1999) has lugholes AND the cutaway for the SEL bracelet. It came with a hollow end link bracelet.

"There is not a special SEL bracelet for lughole cases, or they wouldn't have provided the cutaway. "

Maybe the Sub case is substantially different to the point where the SEL bracelet fits anyway? Seems unlikely to me but possible. Many aftermarket SEL bracelets look similar from the top but differ greatly in actual construction. Could be an aftermarket bracelet. So far only one member has claimed to have done this. He didn't say if the bracelet was genuine or aftermarket, only that it came off his Sub Date.

i thought the same but....a picture is worth a lot of words:
Replaced original bracelet (non SEL/hollow end link style) watch is an E serial... years before SEL were introduced into sub date.
new bracelet is a 93250 "no slots" and it fits perfect.

[donq]

Good information! My Sub Date A series has that same case. So we know an SEL bracelet will retrofit to a Sub Date with a 93150, now we need to see if that applies to the Sub.

[Johny]

Originally Posted by subtona

i thought the same but....a picture is worth a lot of words:
front and back, replaced original bracelet (non SEL/hollow end link style) watch is an E serial... years before SEL were introduced into sub date.
new bracelet is a 93250 "no slots" and it fits perfect.

that looks great. more good information.

[Johny]

Originally Posted by donq

Good information! My Sub Date A series has that same case. So we know an SEL bracelet will retrofit to a Sub Date with a 93150, now we need to see if that applies to the Sub.

and so far we have a pic and a member who said that he had done it...all very interesting. hope that the original poster gets back with some more info.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by subtona

i thought the same but....a picture is worth a lot of words:
front and back, replaced original bracelet (non SEL/hollow end link style) watch is an E serial... years before SEL were introduced into sub date.
new bracelet is a 93250 "no slots" and it fits perfect.

Originally Posted by Johny

that looks great. more good information.

if i had to guess, id say this is a rare bracelet, if you used this for a case with no lugholes the results could be disastrous....
explaining why we usually see SEL bracelets with slots (for the spring bar fork tool) even stock on watches with lugholes (read: straight spring bars/no lips)... specifically, i have seen a lot of pics of SD's showing the redundant combo.

i believe SD to be the first watch to start using the SEL's (please correct me if im wrong)

[Johny]

Originally Posted by subtona

if i had to guess, id say this is a rare bracelet, if you used this for a case with no lugholes the results could be disastrous....
explaining why we usually see SEL bracelets with slots (for the spring bar fork tool) even stock on watches with lugholes... specifically, i have seen a lot of pics of SD's showing the redundant combo.

i believe SD to be the first watch to start using the SEL's (please correct me if im wrong)

possible or not it is all very interesting. beats...can i wear my watch in the rain.... would love some more info/pics from the shop. i remember reading larry tools feature on changing the shape of the sel link.

[dnagwhogas]

Originally Posted by Johny

and so far we have a pic and a member who said that he had done it...all very interesting. hope that the original poster gets back with some more info.

Mr. John, I am hoping I could go to the mall (this weekend) to get some more info. I watch this thread everyday. =) As much as I would like to take the band off, look at the serials, check out the modifications etc... I think the shop owner won't let me do that (hmmm....well, I can always ask). I might just be able to get the numbers from the band....assuming it's authentic. I'll keep you guys posted! Thank you!

[Johny]

Originally Posted by dnagwhogas

Mr. John, I am hoping I could go to the mall (this weekend) to get some more info. I watch this thread everyday. =) As much as I would like to take the band off, look at the serials, check out the modifications etc... I think the shop owner won't let me do that (hmmm....well, I can always ask). I might just be able to get the numbers from the band....assuming it's authentic. I'll keep you guys posted! Thank you!

hi m you have started a very interesting thread you may have to purchase the watch to get the info.

[dnagwhogas]

Originally Posted by Johny

hi m you have started a very interesting thread you may have to purchase the watch to get the info.

No problem. Just PM me your credit card info. I'll ask about their return policy as well.

We'll see what happens.

[Ed Rooney]

Originally Posted by Jake B

Really? Did your 16610 have lug holes?

Yes. Y-serial.

[Johny]

Originally Posted by dnagwhogas

No problem. Just PM me your credit card info. I'll ask about their return policy as well.

We'll see what happens.

couldn't find my card so just sent cash by untraceable bank wire.

[slevin kelevra]

Great Info! Thanks!

Very intrigued to see if the SEL bracelet fits straight onto the Sub. Larry's thread demonstrates the reasons why it shouldn't but Subtona's post contradicts that entirely. Do we think there are two different types of SELs?


Now I really don't mind my Non SEL bracelet but I would prefer the SEL version on my Sub!

[Explorer 2011]

Originally Posted by dnagwhogas

I was at the mall the other day and saw this at the window of one of the jewelry shops. A 14060 with SEL? I thought they didn't make any Sub NDs with SEL? (I learned that here on TRF!....) So the band was probably replaced? Your thoughts.

That was a great spot on the sticky tape stand

I think I would turn and walk away as soon as i saw that!!

Great tutorial from Larry though as always. !

[donq]

All Subtona proved was that an SEL bracelet will fit a Sub Date with lug holes. Sub uses a different case from Sub Date.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by slevin kelevra

Great Info! Thanks!

Very intrigued to see if the SEL bracelet fits straight onto the Sub. Larry's thread demonstrates the reasons why it shouldn't but Subtona's post contradicts that entirely. Do we think there are two different types of SELs?


Now I really don't mind my Non SEL bracelet but I would prefer the SEL version on my Sub!

Originally Posted by donq

All Subtona proved was that an SEL bracelet will fit a Sub Date with lug holes. Sub uses a different case from Sub Date.

to clarify:
the illustrations are meant to show that at some point SEL bracelets were made without the slots (slots are required in the SEL to remove the spring bars when lugholes are not in case frame)

as an example, look at the last few years of Seadwellers that were equipped with lugholes (Y serial and before), you see that the supplied 93160 bracelets also had the slots (although no slots are required for case frames with lugholes)

and finally yes my 16613 sub originally came with old style bracelet and i replaced it with the newer SEL style.... it fit perfectly with no modification of any sort.


below see a picture of typical slots and note how they are missing from my sub in my earlier post.
pic borrowed from other forum member and cropped to highlight SEL

[rms]

Hi everyone,
As promised here is a real world test using the following 4 watches.

1) Sub 04060M Y serial cira 2004. 93150 bracelet with 501B hollow end links.

2) Sub Date 16610 K serial circa 2002. This came with Lug Holes and a 93250 SEL bracelet.

3) GMT II 16710 Y serial circa 1992. Lug Holes (of course) and 78360 bracelet with 501B hollow end links.

4) EXP II M serial circa 2008. No lug holes and SEL bracelet.


As expected, the 93250 SEL bracelet does NOT fit on a 04060M Sub. As you can see from the pictures, the end links fit into place and look like the could / should fit but there is no way to get the springbars to snap into the lug-holes. Holding everything in place and looking through the lug-holes into a light bulb reveals that the holes don't line up. They are just enough off that the springbars will not click-in. That said, I do believe that with a cheaper thinner springbar you might be able to force it in but obviously I wouldn't recommend that.

Also as expected the 93150 bracelet will fit onto the Sub Date with SEL shelf cut-out although it seemed a bit loose to me. The 501B hollow end link did not fit as snugly as it did on the 04060M

What was a real surprise to me was that my GMT II 16710 Y serial from 1992 has the shelf cut-out and both SEL bracelets I have fit it perfectly. If one of our more knowledgable moderators (Tools, Padi etc.) read this, could you offer any insight as to why a watch case milled around 1992 would have the modification for an SEL end-link that didn't come out until nearly a decade later.

Anyway, I hope you found this helpful.

Richard