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CEG · 1 October 2007, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gedanken

It's harsh, Dan, but I've heard the same opinion from quite a few F1 fans and Daren's not wrong in reflecting that opinion.

McLaren were very wise right at the start to keep Hamilton from talking to the press because he does have a tendency to put himself in a bad light. Starting with the Melbourne press conference I mentioned earlier, he's out his foot in it quite a few times, e.g.:

- saying that his performance dropped because he cared more about McLaren than Alonso does
- ripping into Alonso for the Spa first corner incident when it was normal racing, taking it back when told to by McLaren, and then backtracking and going at it again
- openly saying that Alonso should go to Ferrari and leave McLaren to himself

On top of that, many pundits are not far off the truth in opining that Hamilton is McLaren's test-tube project, having brought him along since the age of 12. Hamilton's recent comments about his wanting Alonso to leave have not helped dispel that image.

The British press has not done Hamilton any favours whatsoever. They're as nationalisitic as any other country's media, and the British press coverage of Hamilton in comparison to Alonso justifies Daren's description IMHO - he's British, and he's their darling, as much as Alonso is the darling of the Spanish media.

All in all, conventional wisdom has always been that racing drivers need to shut up to the press and do their talking on the track, and young Hamilton would learn well from this. At the current rate, he's been shrink-wrapped, packaged and turned into F1's version of one of the Backstreet Boys.

Maybe I'm just plain biased then. I'll leave it there.

Jimbits76 · 1 October 2007, 10:56 PM

I'm a Brit and I'm a fan of Lewis.

In our climate of overpaid footballing quasi thugs (even our cricketers are turning into them), he has been a breath of fresh air with his media savvy 'grounded' personality. A true talent and star to boot and sporty kids could do a lot worse than look up to somebody like him.

There will always be people in the Uk who turn against their stars...in fact the media have a history of building people up to tear them down.

In my years watching F1, Mansell always seemed full of himself, Hill was just too nice, Brundall (local boy woohoo) and Blundell were only ever really also rans whilst Button has always seemed to fit the F1 playboy mould where he is more effective in a club or on a yacht than he is on a track(though he is a great driver in the wet!).

I say good luck to Hamilton, I hope he wins it although I must say that if Alonso does hop to the prancing ponies, next year's constructors and drivers will be wide open!

CEG · 1 October 2007, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbits76

he has been a breath of fresh air with his media savvy 'grounded' personality. A true talent and star to boot and sporty kids could do a lot worse than look up to somebody like him.

although I must say that if Alonso does hop to the prancing ponies, next year's constructors and drivers will be wide open!

Gedanken · 1 October 2007, 10:58 PM

James, at the current rate, if Alonso does move over, both he and Lewis will be driving Ferraris next year.

Mansell did whinge a bit too much, and Damon Hill never quite got out from under his father's shadow but the job he did filling the #1 slot when Senna died more than made up for it. The one British driver I really did want to see do better was Johnny Herbert - he had talent, but he just never seemed to have the right car.

Jimbits76 · 1 October 2007, 11:01 PM

I just worry about Kimi....he's had some poor luck this year and with Schuey grooming Massa...who's gonna get the bullet?

Gedanken · 1 October 2007, 11:17 PM

To be blunt, Kimi's not one that I've got a lot of faith in. Sure, he's fast, but he just doesn't have the bottle for the times when the chips are down. Then again, looking at Mika, Coulthard and other drivers, that's not such a big deal if you don't consider Kimi's retainer.

One moment of F1 magic I still clearly remember is Suzuka 1989. After crashing with Prost, Senna gets back on the track around 30 seconds behind Alessandro Nanini who's inherited the lead. Senna pulls out all the stops, simply drives around everybody else and hauls Nanini in to take the win - as Murray Walker said at the time, "he's driving like a man possessed". Winning from behind like that is something you don't see much anymore, although Schumacher and Alonso have had their moments, but that's real racing. I'd love to have watched Fangio do his thing at the Nurburgring in 1957, but that was well before my time.

Jimbits76 · 1 October 2007, 11:25 PM

Ayrton Senna....one word in your post said it all....Magic!!!!!

CEG · 1 October 2007, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbits76

Ayrton Senna....one word in your post said it all....Magic!!!!!

Senna was the ultimate IMO - looked like a maniac at times, simply amazing.

S2000 Driver · 2 October 2007, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CEG

Senna was the ultimate IMO - looked like a maniac at times, simply amazing.

This video of Senna qualifying for Monaco in '91 always gives me goosebumps:

Senna at Monaco

Gedanken · 2 October 2007, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S2000 Driver

This video of Senna qualifying for Monaco in '91 always gives me goosebumps:

Senna at Monaco

Now that's something - going round Mirabeau as fast as you can with with one hand on the wheel and the other on the gear lever.

Gedanken · 1 October 2007, 11:30 PM

Two words, my friend, two words: Donnington 1993.

Gedanken · 2 October 2007, 12:14 AM

Ayrton Senna da Silva - he was right up there with Jim Clark and Juan Manuel Fangio.

Tripp11 · 2 October 2007, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gedanken

Ayrton Senna da Silva - he was right up there with Jim Clark and Juan Manuel Fangio.

Ahhh, Fangio - my all-time favorite driver. The quotes he would give to reporters were classic.

My personal favorite:

"To race is to live but those who died while racing knew, perhaps, how to live more than all the others."

Gedanken · 2 October 2007, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripp11

Ahhh, Fangio - my all-time favorite driver. The quotes he would give to reporters were classic.

My personal favorite:

"To race is to live but those who died while racing knew, perhaps, how to live more than all the others."

Classic indeed!

And after his last victory at Nurburgring 1957, winning his fifth WDC, "I don't ever want to have to drive like that again". You have to admire the man's sense of irony.

Tripp11 · 2 October 2007, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gedanken

Classic indeed!

And after his last victory at Nurburgring 1957, winning his fifth WDC, "I don't ever want to have to drive like that again". You have to admire the man's sense of irony.

Fangio was a great, for sure.

That quote always comes to the forefront when another on track tragedy occurs. I still remember the day Tony Renna earned his big break with TCGR and was testing out at the IMS only to have his number called. So young with so much promise...

God speed to all those who have passed.

Tripp11 · 2 October 2007, 12:58 AM

Back on topic though, CEG, what a bizarre race!! With those rooster tails being kicked up I'm sure it was almost impossible to see at certain parts of that track!

CEG · 2 October 2007, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripp11

Back on topic though, CEG, what a bizarre race!! With those rooster tails being kicked up I'm sure it was almost impossible to see at certain parts of that track!

Absolutely, the view from on board camera's showed...............nothing !!

A quick lap (in the dry) round there is 1 min 26 secs - some of those guys were lapping 1 min 30 secs - in terrential rain - unbelievable..

Welshwatchman · 3 October 2007, 04:53 AM

I watched a BBC documentary on the Hamiltons and I was even more impressed by Lewis. Seeing him as a 7 year old doing his stuff, just amazing.

One side comment from a newspaper hack - the Hamiltons are "infected with ambition". What a joke !

With the 2012 Olympics around the corner, the state of our national football team, tennis players etc etc etc, SPREAD THAT INFECTION PLEASE !

Raikonnen - £25m a year
Ralphy - £12.5m a year (for a while)
Alonso - £11m
Button - £9m

Lewis - £250k a year, this year AND next. He does not want a pay rise but sponsors are already falling over each other to stuff his pockets with riches beyond anyone's dreams.

Get used to seeing Lewis at the top of the tree for the next decade. I think history will be kind to this boy, he's a winner.

Gedanken · 3 October 2007, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

Lewis - £250k a year, this year AND next. He does not want a pay rise but sponsors are already falling over each other to stuff his pockets with riches beyond anyone's dreams.

Haven't you heard the latest news, Paul? Two days ago McLaren just raised Hamilton's 2008 salary to £10 million. His base salary this year was indeed £250k, but with his bonuses for points he's taking home at least £1 million this year.

As for his not wanting a pay rise, that's good to know because he's in it for the right game, just like when Senna offered to drive for Williams in 1993 for free - he just wanted to win races.

Welshwatchman · 4 October 2007, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gedanken

Haven't you heard the latest news, Paul? Two days ago McLaren just raised Hamilton's 2008 salary to £10 million. His base salary this year was indeed £250k, but with his bonuses for points he's taking home at least £1 million this year.

As for his not wanting a pay rise, that's good to know because he's in it for the right game, just like when Senna offered to drive for Williams in 1993 for free - he just wanted to win races.

Perhaps now he will stop wearing the Tag and get himself a decent watch sponsor.

Gedanken · 4 October 2007, 01:28 AM

Maybe Omega's scratching about for a new face since Schumacher called it quits.

Tripp11 · 23 October 2007, 04:16 AM

Talk about a driver blowing the World Championship in the last two races!!! I'm confused why Lewis couldn't see the "big picture" when trying to race Alonso so fierce in the opening lap yesterday...oh well. There's always next year!

Might be interesting to see what happens with the McLaren appeal of the fuel for certain points earning teams being too cold during post-race inspection.

Gedanken · 23 October 2007, 09:42 AM

The kids squabble under the not-so-watchful eye of the Photocopy Bandit, and the quiet guy comes up and takes all the goodies. Ladies and gentlemen, the 2007 Formula One Championship was brought to you by Enid Blyton.

Frankly, with the way Hamilton, Alonso and Dennis were carrying on this year, it would have been a travesty if they had won either championship. The hilarious thing is that McLaren made up a replica of the constructors' trophy to give to Ron, claiming a moral victory, but when the last chequered flag fell, Ferrari had more points than Mclaren even if McLaren's disqualification had not held up.

Congratulations to Kimi - he finally made the right move and got the championship while McLaren dropped the ball again and again.

Even better, Bernie Ecclestone gets to choke on his bickies while Kimi, rather than golden boy Hamilton, is crowned the champ.

1 October 2007, 10:58 PM	#4
Gedanken "TRF" Member Join Date: May 2005 Real Name: Sir Location: Melbourne Watch: F-series SD Posts: 8,589	James, at the current rate, if Alonso does move over, both he and Lewis will be driving Ferraris next year. Mansell did whinge a bit too much, and Damon Hill never quite got out from under his father's shadow but the job he did filling the #1 slot when Senna died more than made up for it. The one British driver I really did want to see do better was Johnny Herbert - he had talent, but he just never seemed to have the right car. __________________ You buy a Casio to make sure you're on time; you wear a Rolex because you don't have to be on time.

1 October 2007, 11:17 PM	#6
Gedanken "TRF" Member Join Date: May 2005 Real Name: Sir Location: Melbourne Watch: F-series SD Posts: 8,589	To be blunt, Kimi's not one that I've got a lot of faith in. Sure, he's fast, but he just doesn't have the bottle for the times when the chips are down. Then again, looking at Mika, Coulthard and other drivers, that's not such a big deal if you don't consider Kimi's retainer. One moment of F1 magic I still clearly remember is Suzuka 1989. After crashing with Prost, Senna gets back on the track around 30 seconds behind Alessandro Nanini who's inherited the lead. Senna pulls out all the stops, simply drives around everybody else and hauls Nanini in to take the win - as Murray Walker said at the time, "he's driving like a man possessed". Winning from behind like that is something you don't see much anymore, although Schumacher and Alonso have had their moments, but that's real racing. I'd love to have watched Fangio do his thing at the Nurburgring in 1957, but that was well before my time. __________________ You buy a Casio to make sure you're on time; you wear a Rolex because you don't have to be on time.

1 October 2007, 11:30 PM	#11
Gedanken "TRF" Member Join Date: May 2005 Real Name: Sir Location: Melbourne Watch: F-series SD Posts: 8,589	Two words, my friend, two words: Donnington 1993. __________________ You buy a Casio to make sure you're on time; you wear a Rolex because you don't have to be on time.

2 October 2007, 12:14 AM	#12
Gedanken "TRF" Member Join Date: May 2005 Real Name: Sir Location: Melbourne Watch: F-series SD Posts: 8,589	Ayrton Senna da Silva - he was right up there with Jim Clark and Juan Manuel Fangio. __________________ You buy a Casio to make sure you're on time; you wear a Rolex because you don't have to be on time.

3 October 2007, 04:53 AM	#18
Welshwatchman "TRF" Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Real Name: Paul Location: Wales, UK Posts: 14,578	I watched a BBC documentary on the Hamiltons and I was even more impressed by Lewis. Seeing him as a 7 year old doing his stuff, just amazing. One side comment from a newspaper hack - the Hamiltons are "infected with ambition". What a joke ! With the 2012 Olympics around the corner, the state of our national football team, tennis players etc etc etc, SPREAD THAT INFECTION PLEASE ! Raikonnen - £25m a year Ralphy - £12.5m a year (for a while) Alonso - £11m Button - £9m Lewis - £250k a year, this year AND next. He does not want a pay rise but sponsors are already falling over each other to stuff his pockets with riches beyond anyone's dreams. Get used to seeing Lewis at the top of the tree for the next decade. I think history will be kind to this boy, he's a winner. __________________ ..33

1 October 2007, 10:56 PM	#2
Jimbits76 "TRF" Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: UK Posts: 9,407	I'm a Brit and I'm a fan of Lewis. In our climate of overpaid footballing quasi thugs (even our cricketers are turning into them), he has been a breath of fresh air with his media savvy 'grounded' personality. A true talent and star to boot and sporty kids could do a lot worse than look up to somebody like him. There will always be people in the Uk who turn against their stars...in fact the media have a history of building people up to tear them down. In my years watching F1, Mansell always seemed full of himself, Hill was just too nice, Brundall (local boy woohoo) and Blundell were only ever really also rans whilst Button has always seemed to fit the F1 playboy mould where he is more effective in a club or on a yacht than he is on a track(though he is a great driver in the wet!). I say good luck to Hamilton, I hope he wins it although I must say that if Alonso does hop to the prancing ponies, next year's constructors and drivers will be wide open!

1 October 2007, 11:01 PM	#5
Jimbits76 "TRF" Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: UK Posts: 9,407	I just worry about Kimi....he's had some poor luck this year and with Schuey grooming Massa...who's gonna get the bullet?

1 October 2007, 11:25 PM	#7
Jimbits76 "TRF" Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: UK Posts: 9,407	Ayrton Senna....one word in your post said it all....Magic!!!!!

2 October 2007, 12:58 AM	#16
Tripp11 "TRF" Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Real Name: Josh Location: Indianapolis, IN Watch: TOG,PAM312,BR03-92 Posts: 249	Back on topic though, CEG, what a bizarre race!! With those rooster tails being kicked up I'm sure it was almost impossible to see at certain parts of that track!

4 October 2007, 01:28 AM	#21
Gedanken "TRF" Member Join Date: May 2005 Real Name: Sir Location: Melbourne Watch: F-series SD Posts: 8,589	Maybe Omega's scratching about for a new face since Schumacher called it quits. __________________ You buy a Casio to make sure you're on time; you wear a Rolex because you don't have to be on time.

23 October 2007, 04:16 AM	#22
Tripp11 "TRF" Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Real Name: Josh Location: Indianapolis, IN Watch: TOG,PAM312,BR03-92 Posts: 249	Talk about a driver blowing the World Championship in the last two races!!! I'm confused why Lewis couldn't see the "big picture" when trying to race Alonso so fierce in the opening lap yesterday...oh well. There's always next year! Might be interesting to see what happens with the McLaren appeal of the fuel for certain points earning teams being too cold during post-race inspection.

23 October 2007, 09:42 AM	#23
Gedanken "TRF" Member Join Date: May 2005 Real Name: Sir Location: Melbourne Watch: F-series SD Posts: 8,589	The kids squabble under the not-so-watchful eye of the Photocopy Bandit, and the quiet guy comes up and takes all the goodies. Ladies and gentlemen, the 2007 Formula One Championship was brought to you by Enid Blyton. Frankly, with the way Hamilton, Alonso and Dennis were carrying on this year, it would have been a travesty if they had won either championship. The hilarious thing is that McLaren made up a replica of the constructors' trophy to give to Ron, claiming a moral victory, but when the last chequered flag fell, Ferrari had more points than Mclaren even if McLaren's disqualification had not held up. Congratulations to Kimi - he finally made the right move and got the championship while McLaren dropped the ball again and again. Even better, Bernie Ecclestone gets to choke on his bickies while Kimi, rather than golden boy Hamilton, is crowned the champ. __________________ You buy a Casio to make sure you're on time; you wear a Rolex because you don't have to be on time.

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