My 1680 - an interesting example? Thoughts welcome!

[springer]

Originally Posted by marcello pisani

: the dial belongs to the 2nd series of replacement dials for " white " 1680 made by Beyeler with luminova ( end of the 90s -early 2000s ) :

Save it Marcello!!!!!!!!!!!!

In Texas we say - even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then.

[springer]

Originally Posted by laphroaig007

All documents looks fine with same writing.
So your 1680 might just have service parts.
Congrats !

Sorry, but the Garantie paper is not correct...read my other post.

[Guitarfan]

Thanks Springer! I think the number on the paperwork is an internal 'Watches of Switzerland' reference number.

The guarantee has all the right watermarks and looks 100% correct to me, and the receipt paper looks and smells old. They all seem 'right' in that regard, and they definitely refer to a 1680 Sub with date.

I guess an inexperienced sales person could have pulled a blank guarantee paper from the pile (rather than the matching chronometer paperwork) and didn't know what number to use so they used the stock reference number? That might explain why they show what they do.

It doesn't explain the high case number though.

I went to my local AD today to order some correct endlinks (which I think should be 580s) so when they call me back on Monday/Tuesday I'll see if they can contact Rolex UK about my 5.8m case number. Maybe they'll give them some information?

[springer]

Originally Posted by Guitarfan

Thanks Springer! I think the number on the paperwork is an internal 'Watches of Switzerland' reference number.

The guarantee has all the right watermarks and looks 100% correct to me, and the receipt paper looks and smells old. They all seem 'right' in that regard, and they definitely refer to a 1680 Sub with date.

I guess an inexperienced sales person could have pulled a blank guarantee paper from the pile (rather than the matching chronometer paperwork) and didn't know what number to use so they used the stock reference number? That might explain why they show what they do.

It doesn't explain the high case number though.

I went to my local AD today to order some correct endlinks (which I think should be 580s) so when they call me back on Monday/Tuesday I'll see if they can contact Rolex UK about my 5.8m case number. Maybe they'll give them some information?

I never said the paper was counterfeit. It is incorrect for your watch. Collectors would never consider it correct for the reasons I mentioned in my other post. Personally, it would add no value to the watch - it is the wrong Rolex document and it does not have the serial number. I have over 300 warranty papers and have seen many others in the past. I've never seen that type of number before.

Seems like you're trying to make this watch into something it isn't. Personally, between the dial, and documents being incorrect, I'd visit the dealer that sold it to you and have a nice sit down with him. I'd want to be walking out with my cash back, and the dealer holding the "bag."

[Guitarfan]

I'm still not convinced about the 2nd series service dial by the way guys. Marcello's pic is a little blurred, but it looks like it has open 6s at 660ft.

There are some good pics of one here that clearly has open 6s:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/20767...25+with+hands-

My watch definitely has CLOSED 6s for 660ft and the plots/hands have yellowed - they are not bright white and they do not glow at all. Surely a 15 year old luminova dial would still glow? My 20 year old tritium Speedmaster still glows faintly.

[Guitarfan]

Cross post - thanks for all your information Springer, it's very much appreciated.

I think I should have a chat with the dealer as you say....

[stevedssd]

Originally Posted by Guitarfan

Cross post - thanks for all your information Springer, it's very much appreciated.

I think I should have a chat with the dealer as you say....

Let us know how you get on, as Springer has said, the dealer should be holding the bag, if you are not happy with what comes out of the chat.

Contacting the RSC at Bexley may not be necessary following the meeting with the dealer but if it is, do it direct rather than through an AD.

Good luck with the outcome.

[Vincent65]

Originally Posted by Guitarfan

Cross post - thanks for all your information Springer, it's very much appreciated.

I think I should have a chat with the dealer as you say....

This was my point quite a few posts back...

[Guitarfan]

Oh yes of course, thanks Vincent. It's been great hearing all of your opinions on this watch.

I've learnt a lot!

[scottb2]

can you please post the pictures of inside the caseback ? maybe the puzzle will become a bit more clear from a fresh perspective

[KlausM]

Sorry to say this but there is nothing which links the paperwork here to the watch. The set of papers you have most likely come from another watch.
BR
Klaus

[Guitarfan]

Thanks Klaus, I think that's the case.

Scott - I haven't got the tool to remove a caseback I'm afraid so I can't get in there myself.

[KlausM]

The watch is still nice though
Get a watchmaker to open it so you don't damage the caseback.
BR
Klaus

[Guitarfan]

Thanks Klaus, it is a lovely watch but it's not what I thought I was buying (an original 1975 Sub date with papers). I paid top money for it!

I've emailed the dealer today about the things raised in this thread so I'll see what they say. I'm not touching the watch until I've heard back from them.

[KlausM]

You should only pay top money for paperwork if there is no doubt about the authenticity. Regardless of what the seller says it is what is on the papers and info provided by Rolex which counts in the end. I guess you are aware of this now.
Good luck!
BR
Klaus

[Guitarfan]

Yes, indeed. I 'bought the seller' as they say and assumed everything would be in order, but that doesn't quite seem to be the case in this instance.

I'll let you know what the dealer says...

[RLX-lvr]

As the others have said, I would return the watch as well to the "respected dealer". May we ask who this is?

Papers don't match up to the watch properly, I can spot 2 different handwriting as well. Also take Marchello's advice. He knows what he talking about.

I also believe the sale date and the serial do not line up. Should be 1978-9 ish I think.

And you should never, ever have a watch that you have to explain.

Cheers

[Guitarfan]

Thanks guys, it's very much appreciated.

I'd rather not say who the dealer is until I've heard back from them, and I'd be very surprised if they don't 'make this right' in some way

[springer]

Originally Posted by RLX-lvr

As the others have said, I would return the watch as well to the "respected dealer". May we ask who this is?

Papers don't match up to the watch properly, I can spot 2 different handwriting as well. Also take Marchello's advice. He knows what he talking about.

I also believe the sale date and the serial do not line up. Should be 1978-9 ish I think.

And you should never, ever have a watch that you have to explain.

Cheers

[Guitarfan]

Something amusing you Springer? I think you've lost me!

[springer]

Originally Posted by Guitarfan

Something amusing you Springer? I think you've lost me!

Wasn't meant for you.

[Johny]

hi any word back from the dealer?

[Guitarfan]

Just now as it happens!

I've been assured of the provenance of the watch, and that it is indeed a 1975 model - the case number is an inconsistency for Rolex but not impossible. The original owner did not recall any alterations to the watch (dial, hands etc) but there is no service documentation to state what was done at each trip to RSC UK.

As I expected, I've been told I can return the watch if I wish.

I'm unsure what to do to be honest...

[Johny]

Originally Posted by Guitarfan

Just now as it happens!

I've been assured of the provenance of the watch, and that it is indeed a 1975 model - the case number is an inconsistency for Rolex but not impossible. The original owner did not recall any alterations to the watch (dial, hands etc) but there is no service documentation to state what was done at each trip to RSC UK.

As I expected, I've been told I can return the watch if I wish.

I'm unsure what to do to be honest...

thank you. did they explain anything about what some of the members here have described as the wrong warranty/ guarantee paper?

[Guitarfan]

No, but I spoke to someone else who told me that Watches of Switzerland are known for putting the wrong numbers/paperwork together when watches were originally sold. If they couldn't find the 'proper' papers, they used a blank ordinary guarantee paper and filled in the details - using an internal stock code reference in place of the serial number.

[marcello pisani]

Originally Posted by Guitarfan

Just now as it happens!

I've been assured of the provenance of the watch, and that it is indeed a 1975 model - the case number is an inconsistency for Rolex but not impossible.

[marcello pisani]

Originally Posted by Guitarfan

No, but I spoke to someone else who told me that Watches of Switzerland are known for putting the wrong numbers/paperwork together when watches were originally sold. If they couldn't find the 'proper' papers, they used a blank ordinary guarantee paper and filled in the details - using an internal stock code reference in place of the serial number.

[marcello pisani]

Originally Posted by Guitarfan

As I expected, I've been told I can return the watch if I wish.

I'm unsure what to do to be honest...

are you really still thinking what to do ?????

[Guitarfan]

Yes I am still thinking what to do, Marcello.

I trust the dealer as I think would a lot of people in the Rolex world.

[bplein]

Originally Posted by Guitarfan

Just now as it happens!

I've been assured of the provenance of the watch, and that it is indeed a 1975 model - the case number is an inconsistency for Rolex but not impossible. The original owner did not recall any alterations to the watch (dial, hands etc) but there is no service documentation to state what was done at each trip to RSC UK.

As I expected, I've been told I can return the watch if I wish.

I'm unsure what to do to be honest...

Guitarfan,

I think what you have, at best, is an honest dealer who was handed a bunch of paperwork by the prior owner, and does not have the same background and resources as some of the experienced people here who have responded. Maybe the paperwork belonged to another watch by the same owner (simple mistake) or maybe the prior owner was less than honest.

The watch could be from the later years, or a replacement case on what was legitimately a 1975 watch. Nobody here seems to think that it could be a late model serial sold in an early year (but as noted, strange things have happened)

What you have, at worst, is a less than honest dealer who has pieced together some stuff and sold it to you at inflated prices.

As said by a few people already, if you can return it to the dealer, you will have greater peace of mind. You won't think about it every time you look at the watch or see similar pieces here on RolexForums.

If you like the watch enough, and the dealer is willing to buy the paperwork back, essentially putting it back to a street price of a 1975-1978 Sub without papers and with some service parts, then that's an option for you too.

I'd go with the former, and look longer for that watch that fits your desire to have a clean history and paperwork.