How do you value Rolex w and wo papers?

[Gaijin]

In fact, I think I would prefer a Rolex service voucher rather than the warranty paper or card
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Exactly. A serice paper from Rolex is just as good as the original papers in proving authenticity. Plus it tells me that this Rolex has at least been serviced during its life.

I recently bought a new K serial number (old) DD but never worn from an AD. The AD did not have the box or papers because they recieved the watch from another Rolex AD that lost thier right to sell Rolex. Per them Rolex confiscated the boxes and papers of all Rolex that the old AD sold to other AD.

I bought a Rose Gold White Roman Dial Day/Date for $13,000. MSRP is $23,300. Well $13,000 was too good to pass up. I agreed to buy the watch as long as the AD would send the Rolex to the Rolex Service Center and pay to have it serviced. Not too outrageous of a request considering the watch was due anyway for a service regardless that it had never left ADs.

They agreed and now I have a great Rose Gold DD with no box, but service papers from a RSC. I'll take that price and Rolex service papers on a grail Rolex anyday.

[bsodmike]

I would not buy second hand, and will continue to purchase brand new from my AD.

[XELOR]

Rolex papers resulting from a new service (etc.) actually mean something currently relevant about a pre-owned watch.

[GraniteQuarry]

BUY THE SELLER - not the watch!! Papers or not, if the seller has impeccable history and you can check them out that's the bulk of the danger taken out of the equation IMO.

As for value, of course a full set with original warranty cert, tags, original invoice, box with serial on it, etc is super perfect. I personally accept RSC service papers for somewhere 10-20% less esp. if the warranty card is backed up by the actual service invoice. For a bare watch i would only accept at 25-50% below full value, and only after serious checking into the watch and most importantly the seller.

A call to Rolex is always useful to check the stolen watch register, although a watch could obviously not be on the list.

Finally, the addition of a box adds nothing more that a couple hundred dollars to the value, absolutely does not help certify the watch in any way.

Do your homework, if in any doubt walk away, another always comes along.

[SPACE-DWELLER]

I'd agree with Trevor and Larry.

A modern Rolex without papers COULD be stolen. Therefore better make sure it's NOT stolen before buying it by contacting RSC and see if the number is reported stolen. You can also check this overview over stolen watches.

Once you've found out that the Rolex is indeed not reported stolen, then it's not a big issue that the watch does not have its papers. As Larry states, service papers are as good as the original papers.

As for value, it depends on the model and its condition. Price reduction could be anything from 10 % to 25 %.

[mcubed]

I did buy my Rolex without Boxes and Papers, but I bought from a reputable local watchmaker who specializes in Rolex. I know he would not sell Fakes or stolen merchandise because he has a good reputation and has been selling watches for a long time.

Besides all this talk got me thinking, if the warranty paper had my name on it (and address too?) I am not sure I would turn it over if I were to sell the watch, I think that would creep me out...as it does many other people.

I also agree that most people after a year or two do not keep the boxes and papers, the warranty expires, so what good is the warranty paper?

[karmatp]

Originally Posted by pwrslider

Some of mine have papers...some don't..

I would rather have them...but like said before..if the price is good...and I'm going to keep the watch, and not flip it...then who really cares.

ALthough....my Expy II with no papers gets NO respect from the ones that do.

WOW, this was starting to sound like a Omega vs. Rolex thread for a second. These are all personal opinions, some people are going to feel fine over a deal without papers and others have reason for concern, I guess the guy without hesitations may get a good deal, that's life. Basically, their are so many preowned Rolex's out their, so for me, why take any chances. I understand the vintage market, and if I was in the market for a vintage model, RSC service papers would be completely acceptable, actually, RSC service papers would be fine for me on a modern model also. I just want to know the history of the watch, for MY PIECE OF MIND, that's all. If my neighbor bought a Rolex 4 years ago and was selling it and he didn't have any papers, well then I know it's history and would still be interested, but I would also know that I would take a hit if I wanted to sell it in the future.

[Beef]

Wow, this is like the Democratic primaries! Everybody has their own strong prefs and opinions. I'll leave mine off. Gotta say, I just love Rolexes!

[Dan Pierce]

When purchasing a Rolex box and papers are nice extras that could be an example of the previous owners attention to detail. But, not necessarily. I'm with Bubba on this. It wouldn't stop me from buying without them if the deal looks right.
dP

[llamaofdoom]

I buy watches with and without papers. It's the condition of the watch that matters most to me, although I agree that papers and all the bits with a watch will help bring in a few bucks extra.

They don't seem to matter as much on a Datejust, President, etc...but they help when selling something like a Daytona.

Re: stolen merchandise - that's why you buy from people that have to run checks with the local police department on the goods they take in from folks off the street...or are re-selling goods that have been checked by the previous seller. Also, if you ever do manage to get a piece of stolen property, the paper trail linking the watch back to someone in the trade is priceless.

[sherwin]

papers marely provide you with a papertrail of the watch and purchase from whom etc. It also serves it purpose of giving you a warranty of 1yr (or was it 2), and thats it.

I do wish I have papers, but without it, I am not going to cry over it.
If I bought the watch myself personally, I do keep my papers, but if buying preowned, thats a different story altogether.

As for stolen, well, RSC only check against local records, so even if it was stolen in UK, and resold in S'pore or Oz. I would not have the chance of knowing.

[Bobareno]

If your buying a vintage watch, say over 20 years old. Most people don't keep the papers or box. If the watch is say 30 years or older the chance of there being papers and a box seem very small to me. How many people keep a box and some old papers around for over 30 years? A lot of people didn't even keep the box around 30 or more years ago. SO if no papers and box and it's vintage, no big deal, just have it checked out buy a AD or if it has service papers OK!

[sherwin]

keeping in mind that in some climates, the leather box will break down and crack. so some people may just sell/dispose of the box.

[TempoKing]

OK ...YOU "PAPER" & BOX LOVERS OUT THERE....LOL

So a "smart" looking guy comes to you and says....I would like to sell my Rolex.

You look at his watch... and what do you see...?...you see a 6239 exotic dial
Cosmograph with a "honey" of a white dial BLACK REGISTERS..mmmmmm

You check the numbers and it is a watch made in 1969, ...so now you are taking him
to your watchmaker to authenticate the movement that indeed it is a real Rolex
movement.. instead of a "Christmas tree"..Your watchmaker says...yeah...the best!!!

...and now you ask the guy ..HOW MUCH...??

He says I know it's worth some money...so I want 10,000 dollars....wow... i WISH I WAS THERE

Then you say any box or papers..?

I am sorry he says..i have lost them but I will sign a paper

NO I will not buy it - you say - ...because there is no box or papers. ????????

Please tell me that this is exactly what you will do ...so I can rest assured that my fellow
TRF members that ...ONLY buy Rolex watches with box and papers... are later day saints.

Have a nice day, I am late TO AN APPOINTMENT...buying another 16610 A serial NO BOX OR PAPERS.

[sherwin]

Originally Posted by TempoKing

OK ...YOU "PAPER" & BOX LOVERS OUT THERE....LOL

So a "smart" looking guy comes to you and says....I would like to sell my Rolex.

You look at his watch... and what do you see...?...you see a 6239 exotic dial
Cosmograph with a "honey" of a white dial BLACK REGISTERS..mmmmmm

You check the numbers and it is a watch made in 1969, ...so now you are taking him
to your watchmaker to authenticate the movement that indeed it is a real Rolex
movement.. instead of a "Christmas tree"..Your watchmaker says...yeah...the best!!!

...and now you ask the guy ..HOW MUCH...??

He says I know it's worth some money...so I want 10,000 dollars....wow... i WISH I WAS THERE

Then you say any box or papers..?

I am sorry he says..i have lost them but I will sign a paper

NO I will not buy it - you say - ...because there is no box or papers. ????????

Please tell me that this is exactly what you will do ...so I can rest assured that my fellow
TRF members that ...ONLY buy Rolex watches with box and papers... are later day saints.

Have a nice day, I am late TO AN APPOINTMENT...buying another 16610 A serial NO BOX OR PAPERS.

nicely said. I love the way you put it

[jasper]

It's pretty simple isn't it?

Most people here (a specialized group) would be willing to pay extra for box and papers. Some would pay a higher premium than others.

Most people here would also take the opportunity to buy a bargain, and or a rare / desirable piece without box and papers as long as they were assured the watch was neither fake or stolen. That's simply a risk tolerance issue.

Personally, if I was buying a watch to collect or perhaps flip at some point...I'd lean heavily towards geting the pedigree stuff but if I planned to wear the watch everyday, then it wouldn't matter as much.

I bought my 16750 without box and papares from a TRF friend and don't regret it even for a second. I'd still be waiting for the right watch if I hadn't...and they don't come up very often.

In fact I'm taking my new watch to Burlington Arcade in London right now so we can ogle used Rollies all day (ok maybe I'll visit the Tate). I wonder how many of the watches I will see will have b&s.

cheers

[topcat30093]

I would never buy a new Rolex without the papers.
But I might be a little least demanding on a vintage model.
But I would be surprised if it didn't have some form of paperwork

[Hatchet]

Box and papers seem to add a few hundred bucks. I used to worry about sending a watch in and not getting it back because it was stolen. I don't worry as much now because A) I buy from reputable people B) I have a superb horologist that gets genuine parts from Rolex a mile from my house!

[GraniteQuarry]

Originally Posted by TempoKing

OK ...YOU "PAPER" & BOX LOVERS OUT THERE....LOL

So a "smart" looking guy comes to you and says....I would like to sell my Rolex.

You look at his watch... and what do you see...?...you see a 6239 exotic dial
Cosmograph with a "honey" of a white dial BLACK REGISTERS..mmmmmm

You check the numbers and it is a watch made in 1969, ...so now you are taking him
to your watchmaker to authenticate the movement that indeed it is a real Rolex
movement.. instead of a "Christmas tree"..Your watchmaker says...yeah...the best!!!

...and now you ask the guy ..HOW MUCH...??

He says I know it's worth some money...so I want 10,000 dollars....wow... i WISH I WAS THERE

Then you say any box or papers..?

I am sorry he says..i have lost them but I will sign a paper

NO I will not buy it - you say - ...because there is no box or papers. ????????

Please tell me that this is exactly what you will do ...so I can rest assured that my fellow
TRF members that ...ONLY buy Rolex watches with box and papers... are later day saints.

Have a nice day, I am late TO AN APPOINTMENT...buying another 16610 A serial NO BOX OR PAPERS.

Good analogy, but put it this way... what if said seller had a second watch WITH B&P on offer at $15k... and he would sell only one... which one would you buy? !!!!

[CoopJr]

Larry and Anastasios make good points in that many Rolexes are out there w/o papers & box and yes, they can be faked easily.

But personally speaking, I would be very suspicious getting a Rolex from a private individual with absolutely no paperwork. I have always saved everything from each Rolex purchase and I guess naively, think everyone else does too. A new Daytona, TT Sub or Milgauss being offered without papers & box would be a big red flag to me. I would think.."Who spends 10K on a watch and throws away the box and warranty card?"

A RSC receipt, as Tom has also said, is as good, if not better, than original papers. You could buy an older Rolex with original papers and it could be filled with non Rolex parts.

But to answer the OP, if you are buying from a private individual, with no paper whatsoever, I would pass. If it's from a reputable dealer, no B&P but with some sort of written assurance of authenticity, just a small reduction, say 10% or so, would be reasonable....good luck

[Egelber]

How many good deals are on ebay stating the rolex has box and papers. It appears the sellers with little or no feedback are not selling these quick. You must buy the seller first, than the watch. Papers mean nothing if you can verify authenticity, and you buy from a reputable seller. JMO. I bought my SD from a local jeweler in Florida D-ser. It came with a green box, and a paper from the jeweler stating it was authenic. I recently brought it in to a AD for an apprsisal for ins. Now I have a paper from an AD stating the wtch is authentic. And I only paid $3395.00, so did I get ripped, I say hell No

[xkjohn]

This has opened my eyes! I never thought about the possibility of purchasing a stolen watch, that would be horrible for several reasons!

I have been thing about trading up at DeMesy, and was asked about box and papers. I am sure that I have the box, but I do not know offhand (and I have not checked) to see if I have "papers".

The case has been made, in my view, that "papers" are not important!

[Tommer]

for those of you who is willing to purchase a rolex without the original paper to verify it's authenticity i have a question for you.

my wife's rolex was stolen from our home, the following day i've reported to rolex in new york that her watch was stolen. now, somewhere down the line that rolex will require service someday, if the thief decide to take her watch in RSC for service and this is what i was told from rolex they will NOT service a stolen watch.

now say the thief is using his other side of the brain and decided not take into RSC for service and true there are always other mom and pop shop will take your business, however what if the watch sold to the next person and the next and so on......someday, somehow it will end up at RSC whether it's for parts or service.

do you guys still wanna buy your next rolex without authenticate to see if it's legit.? i know i sure don't.

[sherwin]

Originally Posted by Tommer

for those of you who is willing to purchase a rolex without the original paper to verify it's authenticity i have a question for you.

my wife's rolex was stolen from our home, the following day i've reported to rolex in new york that her watch was stolen. now, somewhere down the line that rolex will require service someday, if the thief decide to take her watch in RSC for service and this is what i was told from rolex they will NOT service a stolen watch.

now say the thief is using his other side of the brain and decided not take into RSC for service and true there are always other mom and pop shop will take your business, however what if the watch sold to the next person and the next and so on......someday, somehow it will end up at RSC whether it's for parts or service.

do you guys still wanna buy your next rolex without authenticate to see if it's legit.? i know i sure don't.

i would never buy a stolen watch (or any goods) knowingly and no matter how cheap, that is why when i bought my watch, i make sure it was certified authentic and clean by RSC. However i was told that it only apply in the country you are in, and if the watch is taken to another market the numbers would not have any red light next to it, thus making it a "legit" watch again

[mcubed]

Originally Posted by Tommer

for those of you who is willing to purchase a rolex without the original paper to verify it's authenticity i have a question for you.

my wife's rolex was stolen from our home, the following day i've reported to rolex in new york that her watch was stolen. now, somewhere down the line that rolex will require service someday, if the thief decide to take her watch in RSC for service and this is what i was told from rolex they will NOT service a stolen watch.

now say the thief is using his other side of the brain and decided not take into RSC for service and true there are always other mom and pop shop will take your business, however what if the watch sold to the next person and the next and so on......someday, somehow it will end up at RSC whether it's for parts or service.

do you guys still wanna buy your next rolex without authenticate to see if it's legit.? i know i sure don't.

True, however I guess it depends on who you buy from. If you buy from a brick and mortar store with a good reputation, then you should not have a problem.

Though I would guess that of all the watches bought and sold without box and papers, that the overwhelming majority of them are not stolen.... and that Box and Papers are something that most people have no idea are important.

[fikko]

In Singapore, the difference is less than 10%. Yesterday in one store, I saw they sell Submariner SS A series for 5600 SGD with paper and another A series at 5400 SGD without paper. Quite similiar condition. Which mean the difference is only 3.5%

[nch209]

Personal preference I suppose, but I like a papertrail. With that said, I have bought without paper, my 16750 being the case. It is easily my favorite, but I wish like heck it had paper. Kinda like a title to a car... you can drive without it, but having it is nice too!!!

Good luck
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