Fake or gen? Rolex 5512 PCG

[Yousefsl]

Originally Posted by gtnator

How does he have "100% positive feedback"?


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Most dodgy sellers on eBay have 100.0% rating for some reason.

[1675-David]

He'll be back from his meeting any moment now...

[Kiaraff]

The dial is also fake, typical MQ aftermarket dial.
Just look at the markers where the lume is applied.


On the picture you can clearly see that the seconds hand is wrong to.

[springer]

Below is a 1961 5512 case back along with a dial photo to compare the hands. The sweep seconds hand from the watch on ebay is definitely aftermarket absent of the typical taper found on genuine seconds hands. The other two hands might be genuine as they appear in the auction photos. Insert, as noted, is something besides original.

The movement should have the butterfly rotor from that era and it does not. Possibly it has been replaced or the complete movement has been changed. The case back also appears suspect based on the photos - the fonts do not appear correct and the inner case back is missing the typical Rolex swirling or finishing marks normally found on the inside of case backs. Additionally, if the smooth inner case back was extensively polished in the past to remove the swirling marks, the stamped fonts would also have been polished extensively and appear more worn down. As far as the mid case goes, I have not completely formed an opinion on the case based on the photos provided on ebay.

Gilt dials, found on the vintage Rolex, are not easy to photograph and do not usually depict their true gilt color, but depict more of a somewhat faded gilt color when photographed. They often times appear to be a muddy white color more so than gilt. When I see some of these vintage dials that clearly depict a clean, gilt color, it is a red flag for me which might indicate that the dial is refinished or not genuine.

[Kiaraff]

Genuine IV.62 caseback

[Kiaraff]

http://m.ebay.com/itm/322170684396?_...57&_mwBanner=1

Another 5512 pcg from the same seller.

Thx to Member ROM.

[linesiders]

Insert and hands are fake - I don't like the CGs and crown. I am not qualified on the dial* to tell. Without clear photos of the engravings I would not reverse on the rest of it.

* Dial lume loolks like one of those VN / SG dials on Ebay, aged. The Exclamation dot is big enough to land a Seahawk on in a stormy sea.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by watchgroupcorp

Hi... The "5512" on the 1960 and 1961 models is in a different font than the font used on the 1962 versions.

Guys, I have a Sunday Meeting to attend, so I will be disappearing for a few hours now. I will be back on here later, today... After 1:30 p.m. MST.

Clock is ticking....

[TimeToGo]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Moving this to the Vintage forum for a while.

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Clock is ticking....

I think the search for a vintage part in this watch is getting harder...

[Old Expat Beast]

Hmmm.... www.facebook.com/royalcustomtimepieces/

[crowncollection]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Hmmm.... www.facebook.com/royalcustomtimepieces/

not really consistent with his high moral ground in this post check post 49.

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthrea...=482732&page=2

post 49 cut and pasted

I'm on your side in this debate, but Parcel pro does allow different insured value and declared value. However, if you do this, you will get a warning pop up box, and they told me (when I opened my account) that they will not pay insurance claims on items that are seized due to the declared value being different than the insured value.

I don't understand how there could be a 3rd party insurer that provides insurance and will pay out if somebody under-declared the value and the item was seized to the inaccurate declaration. Maybe it happens so seldomly that such insurance company is raking in a bunch of free money.

The thought about paying for a service and pretending the watch is simply being returned to the customer may be viable, but it is not honest, and if you are pressed by a detective or investigator or judge to provide proof (open the books), they will see that the client made two payments to you. One for the fake service and one for the item.


For me, I would question the overall integrity of a seller who enacts such a scheme. People always say to "buy the seller," but if the seller conducts himself dishonestly regarding taxes, how can you trust him?

It's similar to somebody asking you to break a confidentiality agreement. If you break the confidentiality agreement to tell your buddy a secret, he will know that you didn't honor your promise to keep that matter confidential. He may not say anything, but he will always know that you can not be trusted with confidential matters.

To me, honesty and integrity should be comprehensive and cover a sellers entire business conduct. If the seller conducts himself dishonestly in a portion of the transaction, then how can you possibly believe that he has conducted himself honestly in all other aspects of the transaction.

I would be willing to bet that a number of "minty" "unpolished" and "100% original*" watches have been shipped with under-declared values.

#integrity

[*footnote - "100% original" means that no part has ever been changed or replaced - even with a 100% genuine Rolex part. This is a different term than "100% authentic" or "100% genuine" which both mean that the watch is completely genuine, but don't go so far as to guarantee that RSC nor any other watchmaker or jeweler didn't make a part swap at some point during service or repair.]
__________________
Best,

[Kiaraff]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Hmmm.... www.facebook.com/royalcustomtimepieces/

Love the Comex on his FB page

So again Tim, did you build them yourself?

[Yousefsl]

If anyone remembers the post about the argument between a buyer called jmeta that posted about a Rolex 6202 with a refinished dial then disappeared never to comment again and the seller lukerottman who we found out has connections with Bob Maron, watchgroupcorp left a comment a few weeks ago on that form page part of what he said was this "My dealings with Bob Maron and Rob Spayne have always been good." I'm seriously wondering if they connected now too.

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[Kiaraff]

https://www.google.be/search?q=watch...d9rxmyBI56EV4A

[themaninblack]

Originally Posted by Kiaraff

https://www.google.be/search?q=watch...d9rxmyBI56EV4A

Yikes!
http://youtu.be/9JD9it6SmB8

[Old Expat Beast]

Time to put this back where it belongs, in WatchOut.

Watchgroupcorp, you have 12 hours to respond.

[Kiaraff]

He's selling these bad replica's on Instagram, youtube, Facebook...
Weird he wasn't caught sooner.

Hope the 5512 buyer from Ebay will read this thread!

[swatty]

Good catch Kiaraff

[brandrea]

This forum continues to amaze me. The knowledge and insight is incredible.

[Dr.Brian]

It's NOT a replica... It's custom.

[joe100]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Time to put this back where it belongs, in WatchOut.

Watchgroupcorp, you have 12 hours to respond.

I'm betting he doesn't.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by joe100

I'm betting he doesn't.

I don't think anyone's holding their breath.

[Yousefsl]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

I don't think anyone's holding their breath.

*Passes out*

[bricksinthewall]

http://www.ebay.ph/itm/1970-Rolex-16...kAAOSwqBJXUP4O

Sheesh I almost bought this watch....

[Yousefsl]

A potential seller of this what needs help here is a link to the forum page please help him

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=484211

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[watchgroupcorp]

Respectfully, we know that it is impossible to argue against members of a watch forum and come out of the argument with anything other than damage, and that's why our friends like Paul Altieri and Robert Maron (amongst others) choose not to take part in defending themselves against allegations made in watch forums. I have been advised to not even make this comment to the forum, but I am doing so in order to provide some closure on the matter. I will not be responding further.

[Kiaraff]

Everyone makes mistakes and yes it could happen to you.
You could have bought a bogus watch and resold it.

BUT.....

The only problem here is that all your watches are fake and that is not just coincidence, it's because you are the builder/shaper.

Bye bye

[enginerd]

Originally Posted by Kiaraff

He's selling these bad replica's on Instagram, youtube, Facebook...
Weird he wasn't caught sooner.

Hope the 5512 buyer from Ebay will read this thread!

He must have, because I just received a "second chance offer" to buy.

I know, I know, I should have done more research beforehand. However, with the payment specified by seller (anything over $6000 to be paid by credit card), I felt safe with placing a bid and coming here after the fact. That has proven to be true. It's still "mine" for the next 23 hours ;).

I've had very good luck on eBay in the past, and only twice in the 20 or so purchases I've made has a watch turned out to be "not as described." Both were returned and refunded within a week. One time I got an 1803 that looked great, but had no serial nor reference number (rubbed off) and I filed a claim instantly. The seller stated he never received the return (although he signed for it) and that I should contact the shipper to collect the insurance. Ha, nice try! He's since been banned on eBay.

[Kiaraff]

I'm glad we stopped him and glad you didn't pay him ;)

[greekbum]

Originally Posted by watchgroupcorp

Respectfully, we know that it is impossible to argue against members of a watch forum and come out of the argument with anything other than damage, and that's why our friends like Paul Altieri and Robert Maron (amongst others) choose not to take part in defending themselves against allegations made in watch forums. I have been advised to not even make this comment to the forum, but I am doing so in order to provide some closure on the matter. I will not be responding further.

As a long term collector and dealer your comments above don't make any sense If you feel you have been caught with your pants down so to speak then yes it's wise to run and not defend your name if that's what your friends told you..... If you are honest then why not admit a wrong or look for some answers on a watch you own? It looks like you build watches and have tooling to make stuff? But now you look a bit guilty of making and selling fakes and you've added guilt by association names to your list of friends....