scratch on Rolex glass (maybe) - what to do?

[Chuckwagon]

Originally Posted by ragingcao

Wait. There's no scratch and the watch is running within COSC but you're going to full service it anyway and put it away in the back of a cupboard afterwards??

I don't think it was running within its original spec. I would notice it would be maybe about 2-3 minutes ahead after a week.

[Onikage]

Originally Posted by Chuckwagon

- It's not a pre-owned watch. I am the original owner from new.
- I was thinking of selling as I don't wear it much now since I got a new watch. I tend to prefer dress watches on leather. The Rolex submariner is very heavy, I find. However, I am equally happy to keep it.
- the pawnbroker/secondhand jewellery watch dealer said it wouldn't be worth much anyway because of the supposed scratch, and they were not interested in buying it and handed it straight back to me. When I said I could take it to Rolex to have it fully refurbished and would it then be of value, they said "No it doesn't work like that".
- a scratch on the glass would really bother me. I had to know and have it replaced. As it turned out, they lied (whether in good faith or deliberately). Which is actually a relief.
- I'm not haemorrhaging £££s. It's 6 years old and due for its first service anyway. I said that to the desk reception at Rolex St James Square London who agreed and said its actually 5 years interval for my watch. I believe it's only the newer models that are 10 years.

1. It's a preowned watch now.
2. The pawnbroker has no idea what he's talking about. Absolutely none.
3. Rolex wanting to gouge you for a full overhaul + hand replacement on a 6yr old running watch is ridiculous. The 5 year service interval thing is also BS. Authorised Rolex Dealer staff will understandably agree to anything that generates commission. Simple business, and if you agree to that lot then you sir are haemorrhaging £££s.
My advice to you - Find a reputatble prestige watch dealer to get close to market value. scratches and accuracy are negligible when it comes to preowned watches and they'll likely give it a quick refinish and regulating before they sell it.

[Chuckwagon]

Originally Posted by Onikage

1. It's a preowned watch now.
2. The pawnbroker has no idea what he's talking about. Absolutely none.
3. Rolex wanting to gouge you for a full overhaul + hand replacement on a 6yr old running watch is ridiculous. The 5 year service interval thing is also BS. Authorised Rolex Dealer staff will understandably agree to anything that generates commission. Simple business, and if you agree to that lot then you sir are haemorrhaging £££s.
My advice to you - Find a reputatble prestige watch dealer to get close to market value. scratches and accuracy are negligible when it comes to preowned watches and they'll likely give it a quick refinish and regulating before they sell it.

Thanks for your honest thoughts and advise 🙂

Now I'm getting Rolex to give it a full service I think I might as well keep it. Unless I trade it in part towards maybe a new Cellini - as I said I do prefer dress watches, although the submariner is handy for swimming and sports.

I'm pretty sure the Rolex booklets that came with my watch recommend 5 years service interval. Isn't it the newer models that are 10 years and have 5 years warranty because they have been updated with better movements??

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Chuckwagon

Thanks for your honest thoughts and advise ��

Now I'm getting Rolex to give it a full service I think I might as well keep it. Unless I trade it in part towards maybe a new Cellini - as I said I do prefer dress watches, although the submariner is handy for swimming and sports.

I'm pretty sure the Rolex booklets that came with my watch recommend 5 years service interval. Isn't it the newer models that are 10 years and have 5 years warranty because they have been updated with better movements??

The cal 3135 in your watch is basically exactly the same as the cal 3135 that was first introduced in 1988.The only change in the cal 3135 till present day is now they have the in-house made escapement parts but no big deal there.Although Rolex does state now recommend service at 10 years,that would depend on how the watch was used and plain common sense.And now Rolex have introduced this new AVERAGE -2+2 seconds a day spec.What does this mean well the bare uncased movement is still tested at the independent COSC to a AVERAGE -4+6 seconds a day spec to get the certifaction.Rolex when movement is returned before its cased re-tests on a machine to the new -2+2 spec. Movements like the cal 3135 have not got a new genie inside to make them better its all about regulation.Truth be told all the Rolex movements since the 15 series could match this new spec at time of testing on the timing machine.But this new spec does not mean the movement will run exactly the same every day for its life.And will add no Rolex needs to be put in a cupboard they are meant to be worn thats what owning a Rolex is about.

[Chuckwagon]

Thanks for sharing your expert knowledge padi56. That's really interesting to read. It's strange that Rolex would change its recommendation if the newer watches have essentially the same movement.

Do you advise that I should agree to Rolex's suggestion of replacing the hands? It is an extra £77. Also I believe the new glow is blue, and my watch being the older model is green glow, would they replace it with new hands that glow blue, which would look rather odd?!

Also what did they mean by "Monobloc knocked"? what part of the watch is the "Monobloc"?

Thanks again! :)

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Chuckwagon

Thanks for sharing your expert knowledge padi56. That's really interesting to read. It's strange that Rolex would change its recommendation if the newer watches have essentially the same movement.

Do you advise that I should agree to Rolex's suggestion of replacing the hands? It is an extra £77. Also I believe the new glow is blue, and my watch being the older model is green glow, would they replace it with new hands that glow blue, which would look rather odd?!

Also what did they mean by "Monobloc knocked"? what part of the watch is the "Monobloc"?

Thanks again! :)

Monobloc is the new type winding crown as for the hands well its up to you, as they only recommend to change them.But would expect they would try and match the colour green as on the rest of your dial.But crowns are often replaced at service time, crown tubes and mainsprings are always replaced as part of service, but a charge for the winding crown.

[No SUBctitute]

Originally Posted by padi56

The cal 3135 in your watch is basically exactly the same as the cal 3135 that was first introduced in 1988.The only change in the cal 3135 till present day is now they have the in-house made escapement parts but no big deal there.Although Rolex does state now recommend service at 10 years,that would depend on how the watch was used and plain common sense.And now Rolex have introduced this new AVERAGE -2+2 seconds a day spec.What does this mean well the bare uncased movement is still tested at the independent COSC to a AVERAGE -4+6 seconds a day spec to get the certifaction.Rolex when movement is returned before its cased re-tests on a machine to the new -2+2 spec. Movements like the cal 3135 have not got a new genie inside to make them better its all about regulation.Truth be told all the Rolex movements since the 15 series could match this new spec at time of testing on the timing machine.But this new spec does not mean the movement will run exactly the same every day for its life.And will add no Rolex needs to be put in a cupboard they are meant to be worn thats what owning a Rolex is about.

When Rolex changed their specs for the 3135 to +2/-2 seconds per day and a service internal of 7-10 years--without changing anything about the movement itself that would provide greater accuracy and a longer service interval--did they give any explanation as to why they magically deemed the 3135 more accurate and longer lasting between services?

[colt_seavers]

I wouldn't have thought you would need to sell your watch through a pawn broker, as it is a very desirable piece. They are always going to give you a low offer.

[Chuckwagon]

Originally Posted by colt_seavers

I wouldn't have thought you would need to sell your watch through a pawn broker, as it is a very desirable piece. They are always going to give you a low offer.

Thanks for your kind words. I'm not sure it's as desirable as other Rolex models though, as my watch is only an entry level model that's been superseded. My mum helped choose it for me and i do quite like it, except for the weight - it feels heavy on my wrist.

At the AD it was between this watch and the Rolex oyster GMT with the green hand which was quite new at the time and was about £600 more, if memory serves me right. My watch cost £3460 which was the full MSRP back then. The GMT was about £4100, I think. Sometimes I wish I had chosen it instead as I'm sure it would be more desirable, but I'm quite happy with the submariner - it wasn't as thick and I liked the springbar holes which the GMT didn't have. :)

[Chuckwagon]

Oh, I still have the old Rolex catalog from back then as the AD gave me a copy when i bought my watch. It is like a big book with a light green cover. It's at my parents house so I'll retrieve next time I'm back there and check the list prices at that time.

[neilmc]

Out of interest, what price did they offer if at all and which pawnbroker company was it? Your watch is actually very sought after and I find it odd any company would refuse it especially with a lack of stainless steel pre-owned stock in the UK right now.

[Chuckwagon]

Originally Posted by neilmc

Out of interest, what price did they offer if at all and which pawnbroker company was it? Your watch is actually very sought after and I find it odd any company would refuse it especially with a lack of stainless steel pre-owned stock in the UK right now.

I don't want to name names, but it's in a city in NW England. They are in the city centre and I'm sure they are an established reputable business, although my experience has put me off the idea of contemplating selling my watch again. I've never done it before and I don't think I will do it again as I don't think I can trust them and you have no control over what they do with your watch when they take it away out of your sight.

They declined to make any offer for it at all, because of the supposed scratch on the glass (which Rolex St James London has now disproved).

After he disappeared round the back for several minutes I got a bit anxious as I had no idea what was happening to my watch out of sight and I was worried he was going to open it and break the 300m water pressure rating, so I made a bit of a fuss with the other staff who reassured me that they wouldn't open it. I couldn't understand why they couldn't examine it externally with a loupe in front of me. (Even Rolex at St James examines it at their front desk when I took it in!)

Anyway eventually he came back with a colleague and handed me the watch and the card back, and said "there's a scratch on the dial" which alarmed me and I said "there can't be a scratch on the dial, it has never been opened before since new" he then said it was the glass "you can see it" - tbh I couldn't really but was more relieved it wasn't the dial (at this point I had no idea if they opened it and scratched the dial, that was why I was so alarmed). I said "oh the glass - I thought you said the dial". They then said it would cost them too much money to fix it and wasn't worth it (maybe not those exact words, but that was my understanding of the gist of it - they said a new glass would cost £200). I then said "well, I could take it to Rolex in London to have it fully serviced - it's due its first service anyway because it's 6 years old", and they shook their head and said "no it doesn't work like that".

At this point I was just relieved to get my watch and the card back, and anxious to get it checked out as to whether there is a scratch on the glass or the dial, so I said "well, in that case I will keep it if it's not worth much" and they agreed that would be best. So they didn't make me any offer at all - just outright rejected it.

I'm not disappointed as I was kind of in two minds about selling it, just that I don't wear it as much now since I got a new watch and I do find it heavy on the wrist, and was considering getting something for it towards maybe a new watch. I was hoping or expecting about 50% usual depreciation, so about £1800. But I'm equally happy to keep it. . In a way, the negative experience has helped me decide to just keep it, especially now it's with Rolex for full service which will cost £604.72 including new crown and optional new hands.

[Johnnyhayward]

I am sure that you can sell it for way more than £1800 !

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Chuckwagon

I don't want to name names, but it's in a city in NW England. They are in the city centre and I'm sure they are an established reputable business, although my experience has put me off the idea of contemplating selling my watch again. I've never done it before and I don't think I will do it again as I don't think I can trust them and you have no control over what they do with your watch when they take it away out of your sight.

They declined to make any offer for it at all, because of the supposed scratch on the glass (which Rolex St James London has now disproved).

After he disappeared round the back for several minutes I got a bit anxious as I had no idea what was happening to my watch out of sight and I was worried he was going to open it and break the 300m water pressure rating, so I made a bit of a fuss with the other staff who reassured me that they wouldn't open it. I couldn't understand why they couldn't examine it externally with a loupe in front of me. (Even Rolex at St James examines it at their front desk when I took it in!)

Anyway eventually he came back with a colleague and handed me the watch and the card back, and said "there's a scratch on the dial" which alarmed me and I said "there can't be a scratch on the dial, it has never been opened before since new" he then said it was the glass "you can see it" - tbh I couldn't really but was more relieved it wasn't the dial (at this point I had no idea if they opened it and scratched the dial, that was why I was so alarmed). I said "oh the glass - I thought you said the dial". They then said it would cost them too much money to fix it and wasn't worth it (maybe not those exact words, but that was my understanding of the gist of it - they said a new glass would cost £200). I then said "well, I could take it to Rolex in London to have it fully serviced - it's due its first service anyway because it's 6 years old", and they shook their head and said "no it doesn't work like that".

At this point I was just relieved to get my watch and the card back, and anxious to get it checked out as to whether there is a scratch on the glass or the dial, so I said "well, in that case I will keep it if it's not worth much" and they agreed that would be best. So they didn't make me any offer at all - just outright rejected it.

I'm not disappointed as I was kind of in two minds about selling it, just that I don't wear it as much now since I got a new watch and I do find it heavy on the wrist, and was considering getting something for it towards maybe a new watch. I was hoping or expecting about 50% usual depreciation, so about £1800. But I'm equally happy to keep it. . In a way, the negative experience has helped me decide to just keep it, especially now it's with Rolex for full service which will cost £604.72 including new crown and optional new hands.

Look on chrono24 for the going rate for your Rolex 14060, which will be much higher than 1.8K. Then go to Watchfinder and sell it to them, they have some selling for over £7K!!!

[Onikage]

Originally Posted by AK797

Look on chrono24 for the going rate for your Rolex 14060, which will be much higher than 1.8K. Then go to Watchfinder and sell it to them, they have some selling for over £7K!!!

Have to agree with this. It sounds like the watch is in reasonable condition - No bezel insert replacement recommended, barely visible marks that have to be found under a microscope, running at or nearly COSC etc.

[Chuckwagon]

Originally Posted by Johnnyhayward

I am sure that you can sell it for way more than £1800 !

Originally Posted by AK797

Look on chrono24 for the going rate for your Rolex 14060, which will be much higher than 1.8K. Then go to Watchfinder and sell it to them, they have some selling for over £7K!!!

Originally Posted by Onikage

Have to agree with this. It sounds like the watch is in reasonable condition - No bezel insert replacement recommended, barely visible marks that have to be found under a microscope, running at or nearly COSC etc.

Thanks to all the experts here. I really had no idea - those asking prices from dealers are very surprising - they are charging way more than it costed new - as I mentioned the full price was £3460 back then - here is my sales receipt along with the complimentary valuation letter from the AD on purchase:



In a way this whole sorry episode has made me appreciate my watch more than I did before! 🙂🙂 I'm really glad now that the pawnbroker jewellery watch dealer wasn't interested in it because he thought the glass was scratched.

[brettpaul]

Originally Posted by Onikage

1. It's a preowned watch now.
2. The pawnbroker has no idea what he's talking about. Absolutely none.
3. Rolex wanting to gouge you for a full overhaul + hand replacement on a 6yr old running watch is ridiculous. The 5 year service interval thing is also BS. Authorised Rolex Dealer staff will understandably agree to anything that generates commission. Simple business, and if you agree to that lot then you sir are haemorrhaging £££s.
My advice to you - Find a reputatble prestige watch dealer to get close to market value. scratches and accuracy are negligible when it comes to preowned watches and they'll likely give it a quick refinish and regulating before they sell it.

Couldn't agree more - you can get good money for the watch IF you decide to sell. You may also want to try and sell it privately to maximize your cash in hand....best bet is to keep it and enjoy!

[Onikage]

The provenance certainly will help. Since it's with them now a recent Rolex service isn't the end of the world either.

[Chuckwagon]

Originally Posted by brettpaul

Couldn't agree more - you can get good money for the watch IF you decide to sell. You may also want to try and sell it privately to maximize your cash in hand....best bet is to keep it and enjoy!

Thanks I've decided to keep it now and appreciate it more! :)

This forum is full of useful information - According to the Reference Library forum here, serial prefix M = 2007-8, and clasp code PJ = 2008. Therefore my watch must have been made in 2008, as the serial begins with M, and the clasp code is PJ3. Would the 3 mean March, or maybe 3rd quarter??

But anyway if it was made in 2008, and I bought it in 2010, that mean it must have been sitting in the AD window for about 2 years?! would that suggest the basic submariner wasn't a popular model back then?

[Chuckwagon]

Originally Posted by Chuckwagon

Oh, the rap sheet also says Hands marked, so that's why they have advised replacement but optional.

I can see from my photo that there seems to be a mark on the minute hand.

I've emailed Rolex to ask why that would happen? As I know for a fact the watch has never been opened or touched inside since purchased new from the AD 6 years ago. I have sent Rolex pictures of my original sales invoice and the warranty card matching details with my name as proof. I also had shown it to them yesterday and they were very nice and believed me and did not doubt my bona fides at all.

UPDATE:

Got a nice reply from Rolex advising that the hands are "only very lightly marked" but their examiner looks at the watch under 25x magnification and is obliged to highlight any marks observed. They suggested that the hands can become marked if they are knocked slightly out of alignment and rub against each other.

Anyway their view is that "certainly the hands are not marked enough to warrant changing at this time" and that although replacement is an option however they "would not encourage [me] to do so".

I am really impressed by the honest advice from Rolex in London.

[Chuckwagon]

well I finally collected my watch from Rolex... 13 weeks turnaround...

fully serviced, only the crown needed replacing. And so the final Rolex verdict confirms that there was no scratch on the glass after all!

they've done a great job polishing it. The lugs are finely chamfered and all the dings & scratches have gone. It's like a new watch, even got stickers again!

Overall I commend the Rolex service, so glad now that it was unwanted & i'm very happy to keep it after all...

[natosub]

Looks great! Would be a shame to tuck suck a good looking watch away in the cupboard

[BristolCavendish]

This account/reportage is clearly an example of a Rolex driving someone to the near brink of a nervous breakdown (unless neurosis was previously diagnosed by a trained professional). Appears everything worked out OK. It's unfortunate that a nice watch can cause so much internal pain (whether real or imagined).

[Chuckwagon]

Originally Posted by BristolCavendish

This account/reportage is clearly an example of a Rolex driving someone to the near brink of a nervous breakdown (unless neurosis was previously diagnosed by a trained professional). Appears everything worked out OK. It's unfortunate that a nice watch can cause so much internal pain (whether real or imagined).

That's rather unkind :(

The fact is that I was advised by a pawnbroker jeweller in Liverpool that my watch had a scratch on the glass that would cost £200 to replace and that it was essentially of little worth to the secondary market with the scratch. As it was due a service anyway after 6 years, the best way to get the supposed scratch fixed was to take it to Rolex.

It's nothing to do with neurosis, it turned out that I was told false information about the condition of my watch by a professional appraiser.

[Chuckwagon]

Originally Posted by natosub

Looks great! Would be a shame to tuck suck a good looking watch away in the cupboard

Thank you

I haven't even peeled off the stickers yet! I'm going to check the timekeeping to see if it is more accurate after the service.

The new crown winds a lot more smoothly. It doesn't have the same winding resistance as the original crown.

[BristolCavendish]

Originally Posted by Chuckwagon

That's rather unkind :( ...It's nothing to do with neurosis, it turned out that I was told false information about the condition of my watch by a professional appraiser.

No unkindness intended and apologies if my commentary was perceived as such. If anything, you learned that it is much better to have your Rolex inspected by an RSC rather than a pawnbroker trying to juke you out of your watch's true value.

[Chuckwagon]

Originally Posted by BristolCavendish

No unkindness intended and apologies if my commentary was perceived as such. If anything, you learned that it is much better to have your Rolex inspected by an RSC rather than a pawnbroker trying to juke you out of your watch's true value.

Thank you!

I think the servicing has made me appreciate the watch more than i did before. I still find it rather heavy on the wrist but I think I will try to enjoy wearing it more often.

I'm getting that new watch musn't scratch it neurosis though ;) Before it was just a beater that i didn't even think about. In fact when the jeweller guy gave it back to me after rejecting it, I just put it in my trouser pocket and he seemed a little horrified?!

[douglasf13]

Originally Posted by Chuckwagon

Thank you!

I think the servicing has made me appreciate the watch more than i did before. I still find it rather heavy on the wrist but I think I will try to enjoy wearing it more often.

I'm getting that new watch musn't scratch it neurosis though ;) Before it was just a beater that i didn't even think about. In fact when the jeweller guy gave it back to me after rejecting it, I just put it in my trouser pocket and he seemed a little horrified?!

I'm glad you kept that watch. There's no such thing as an "entry level" Rolex. It's simply about the combination of features and materials you desire, and the 14060 is one of the best.

[Chuckwagon]

Well I've timed it since it came back from Rolex and it's running +2s per day 🙂

I'm really pleased with the polishing although the original diagonal grain on the lugs is less defined, but otherwise it looks as good as new...



I think maybe I should keep the stickers on, I quite like the blue stripes 😎

ps. Oh if anyone thinks this thread is a sales thread in disguise, it's not, my story is genuine, and no I am not thinking to sell it anymore, not after I spent £600 including travel costs to take it to Rolex in London... Just hope my experience is a warning to other people to be wary if pawn/watch dealer appraisers claim there's something wrong with your watch 🙂

[Chuckwagon]

Originally Posted by douglasf13

I'm glad you kept that watch. There's no such thing as an "entry level" Rolex. It's simply about the combination of features and materials you desire, and the 14060 is one of the best.

Thank you so much!

I think it was one of the cheapest ones which was partly why my mother & I chose it, as I mentioned we were deliberating between the GMT with the green hand which was quite a new model at the time but it was about £600 more expensive. When the AD pulled them out for me to look at, I was quite smitten by how deep and glossy was the blackness of the dial, I didn't pay too much attention to the weight but it was thinner and a bit lighter than the GMT. 🙂