College Players

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by rod727

I think I'm not making my point clear......think of it like this..any player should be able to ply his trade and earn money at the professional level. The NFL won't alllow this so elite players end up in college not because they want an education but because they have no other venue where they can showcase their skills.

The NBA allows players to move directly from high school or 1 year after high school. MLB allows them right out of high school. The NFL is three years out of high school before they allow players to be signed so in fact a 19 or 20 year old does not have access or ability to ply his trade.

Agreed, basically it's their only option at this point and I really don't see this changing when it comes to the NFL. In fact many NBA teams have probably found that it would be best if they did the same as well.

[azguy]

No way I would play of I was 1st or 2nd round guy

[BristolCavendish]

Anyone here old enough to remember the annual College All-Star football games? I think they ran until about the mid-1970s and would pit All-American collegiate players against the NFL champions. In 1963, they beat the Green Bay Packers and Lombardi was livid.

The games were probably discontinued due to potential injury risks and the money involved. During the 1960s, the NFL and AFL were actively drafting the same players out of college.

Last point. Is it just me or do others feel there are just way too many college bowl games? When I was a youngster, there were only four (Rose, Cotton, Sugar & Orange). Early on, the Fiesta Bowl was a lower-tiered newbie. There's big money involved in these games and perhaps that's they reason they seem to be proliferating. On an offbeat note, I'd like to see a hypothetical 'Tidy Bowl' (sponsored by the toilet bowl cleaner). It would pit the two absolute worst & incompetent Division I college football teams and I imagine the competition to even be considered for such a game would be vast as well as exclusive in its own unique way.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by rod727

I think I'm not making my point clear......think of it like this..any player should be able to ply his trade and earn money at the professional level. The NFL won't alllow this so elite players end up in college not because they want an education but because they have no other venue where they can showcase their skills.

The NBA allows players to move to pros 1 year after high school so this has created the " one and done " phenomenon . MLB allows them right out of high school. The NFL is three years out of high school before they allow players to be signed so in fact a 19 or 20 year old does not have access or ability to ply his trade.

College football and NCAA at the highest level gets all of the revenue and in turn the player gets a degree....once again that's not why the players are there.

If you remove the barrier that keeps top players from moving to the pros directly from high school then a choice is created. The player can choose to go to college or he can choose to go pro. If he wants paid then go pro if he chooses college then he has that available.

I think the NFL has it right. Maturity plays an important role in the effectiveness of the players. The amount of technical information they need to master in the various schemes is enormous, they are exposed to media constantly, and the minimum salaries still make them quite wealthy. A few more years of emotional development, football intelligence, and exposure to the limelight is important to give these guys the personality tools to perform at a high level.

Additionally, kids out of high school aren't even close to physically ready for the NFL. College exposes them to proper nutrition and professional quality physical training, developing their body for the rigors of the game. There's no way a high school kid is going to survive in a game populated by men who have spent years building mass and explosiveness.

[rod727]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

I think the NFL has it right. Maturity plays an important role in the effectiveness of the players. The amount of technical information they need to master in the various schemes is enormous, they are exposed to media constantly, and the minimum salaries still make them quite wealthy. A few more years of emotional development, football intelligence, and exposure to the limelight is important to give these guys the personality tools to perform at a high level.

Additionally, kids out of high school aren't even close to physically ready for the NFL. College exposes them to proper nutrition and professional quality physical training, developing their body for the rigors of the game. There's no way a high school kid is going to survive in a game populated by men who have spent years building mass and explosiveness.

I agree with you 100% but the only way your going to take away the "pay the college players" argument is to provide them a path to be a professional and then it becomes their choice....if you want to get paid to play football then by all means go and more power too you......now they begrudgingly go to college and in many cases it's all a facade.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by rod727

I agree with you 100% but the only way your going to take away the "pay the college players" argument is to provide them a path to be a professional and then it becomes their choice....if you want to get paid to play football then by all means go and more power too you......now they begrudgingly go to college and in many cases it's all a facade.

To Grady's point, they do pay the players that will be going to the NFL. That talent is all on a full ride. They get housing and lifestyle support, expert professional physical training, expert professional football specialty training, expert medical support, high level game experience, and a some basic college courses.

The value of the college education piece of the scholarship is insignificant compared to the value of the expert professional training they receive in the sport and the game experience. Division I level football training and support would cost an individual tens of thousands of dollars at a training center. And the game experience is priceless.

This is akin to a med student getting all his education, training, internships, residencies, and specialties paid for, then getting top salary right out of school. The notion that the athletes aren't getting paid is a misnomer. They are getting paid in kind and the schools are bearing the costs.

[rod727]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

To Grady's point, they do pay the players that will be going to the NFL. That talent is all on a full ride. They get housing and lifestyle support, expert professional physical training, expert professional football specialty training, expert medical support, high level game experience, and a some basic college courses.

The value of the college education piece of the scholarship is insignificant compared to the value of the expert professional training they receive in the sport and the game experience. Division I level football training and support would cost an individual tens of thousands of dollars at a training center. And the game experience is priceless.

This is akin to a med student getting all his education, training, internships, residencies, and specialties paid for, then getting top salary right out of school. The notion that the athletes aren't getting paid is a misnomer. They are getting paid in kind and the schools are bearing the costs.

Great points and not repeated often enough.....

[DS/B MINI S]

My child just finished their college eligibility in a sport other than football. Performed as both an All Conference and All American selection. I've seen the beast from both sides and have no problem whatsoever with these guys sitting out a meaningless bowl game. The game has used them, now it's time to use the game. Enjoy your payday young man you've earned it.

[77T]

My take is media overhype - less than 2% of college football players make it to the pros. 2 current college players bowed out of bowls (of the thousands who play football) so they represent maybe .02% of players overall. More like a snowflake on the tip of the iceberg but it's making headlines...

People won't like it but these guys are playing it safe.

[Lordofrolex]

Originally Posted by srvrf

I think you'd never know unless you're in LSU's or Stanford's locker room what the other players think of the decisions. They have worked together for years and I still think that the decision was a team decision. Both of those guys played their asses off over their careers and won them many games. They played hurt too like (all players) so when it comes down to the finish where anything that goes wrong can cost them millions of dollars, their teammates probably want what's best for them too.


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Originally Posted by dddrees

Tell that to the kid who receives a career ending injury and 10 years later where is that team now.

As far as I am concerned sports is big business period and in business it's in everybodies interest to lookout for themselves. When I was a kid I was taught to be a good sport, frankly I have a hard time seeing where sportsmanship is even relevant any longer.

Good points and I totally understand it's a business decision.

[Culley22]

As someone who played college sports on full scholarship:

This was a smart move on their part, and the school shouldn't care. The idea behind "student-athlete" is the education part...but it isn't there. They force you to take the easiest class load so that you can fully concentrate on your sport. All the nutritional experts, and fitness experts and....are crap. When you're done, everything they have provided is (for the most part) over and the school and athlete move on. The school "gave"those to the athlete for the School's benefit. No athlete = no big money. The full-ride argument is shit. Rarely does an athlete come away with much more than "elementary education" or "general business" IF (that's a capital "if") they even have enough credits to graduate. Usually they don't. They took the minimum to play, because the work load of practice, weights, dry land, film studies, AND school are too much.

Smart move on their part. I'm guessing both would have played if for a National Championship. But now...now it was just a money grab for their school.

[AzPaul]

So let's play it out a little. Both these players go to the NFL, are drafted fairly high and sign their (mostly) predetermined rookie contracts that last (generally) four years. They experience a good deal of success and after three and a half seasons, are coming up on their first chance at free agency. At that point, will it be okay for them to choose to sit out games at the end of the season in order not to endanger their upcoming pursuit of their first 'big money' contract? After all, monetarily, they'll have a great deal more on the line with those contracts than their rookie contracts.

[Abdullah71601]

My dad and my uncles played Division I ball on full rides. They wouldn't have been able to go to college without football. They all got degrees and have worked off their degrees their whole lives. The notion that student athletes aren't students isn't true for everyone.

These two guys probably didn't go to college to get a degree. More likely they went to college to get football training for the NFL, which means they took a minimum number of communications and underwater basket weaving courses to retain eligibility. The school gave them the training they sought and a platform to demonstrate their talents in front of NFL scouts, and the school made a bunch of money in the process (I think everyone agrees on this).

Now, the question is whether they are being too mercenary for their own good. The NFL is a money league, but passion for the game and work ethic are intangibles considered in draft discussions. Time will tell if missing the post season reps will hurt them.

[austinp]

Im glad he is sitting. He would look real good in a Jags uniform!

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[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by austinp

Im glad he is sitting. He would look real good in a Jags uniform!

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I think you'd be better off with a good coach than an RB with bad ankles.

[teqp]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Now, the question is whether they are being too mercenary for their own good. The NFL is a money league, but passion for the game and work ethic are intangibles considered in draft discussions. Time will tell if missing the post season reps will hurt them.

On April 27, 2017, we will find out if sitting out hurts your draft stock. IMHO, I think the teams picking early in the draft are less picky when it comes to a players character since they believe those players will help their teams immediately. I am sure at the combine during the interviews, they will be asked questions pertaining to their decision.

[dddrees]

Talent Trumps Everything!!

[DeeTee]

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

Who makes more money than the company they work for?

90% of professional athletes. (Many multi billion dollar corps, but that's another discussion)

Most teams in professional sports are NOT profitable year after year. The team owners do this to inflate their ego. When jackasses like Steve Ballmer come in and pay exorbitant sums to own a team is where the owners make their money selling the franchise.

Most of these kids just want to play college football because they are forced to before entering the NFL. Many are dumb as a rock and they can slide right through classes as long as they perform on the field.

NCAA basketball nearly fell apart in the early 2000's when the NBA was plucking everyone in high school. They cried so much and pulled so many strings that they got the NBA to agree force players into one year of mandatory college.

These kids owe these schools and NCAA nothing. Not a dime.
Why risk potential millions of dollars and for most of these kids, a way to get their whole families out of the slums.

[Culley22]

Originally Posted by AzPaul

So let's play it out a little. Both these players go to the NFL, are drafted fairly high and sign their (mostly) predetermined rookie contracts that last (generally) four years. They experience a good deal of success and after three and a half seasons, are coming up on their first chance at free agency. At that point, will it be okay for them to choose to sit out games at the end of the season in order not to endanger their upcoming pursuit of their first 'big money' contract? After all, monetarily, they'll have a great deal more on the line with those contracts than their rookie contracts.

This actually happens. Remember players hold out when they don't feel their current contract reflects their value. Happens all the time.

One thing about football: no guaranteed contracts. That's another reason I full support this. Team signs you to big money, they later decided it wasn't in their best interest: they release the player. Only thing they have to pay is signing bonus and what you've played out. Sometimes contract include language (which is why Joey Bosa and Mariota held out) that if you go elsewhere (get picked up when dropped) you don't get paid by yoru first team.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by teqp

On April 27, 2017, we will find out if sitting out hurts your draft stock. IMHO, I think the teams picking early in the draft are less picky when it comes to a players character since they believe those players will help their teams immediately. I am sure at the combine during the interviews, they will be asked questions pertaining to their decision.

It will be hard to judge with Fournette unless he goes in the top ten. He has injury history that may scare teams off more than sitting out a bowl game. The teams that aren't worried about character will be more likely to be worried about availability and durability.

[austinp]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

I think you'd be better off with a good coach than an RB with bad ankles.

100% agree. The team has lots of holes to fill.

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