1680 Red mark I help

[Kenrocks]

I'm a newbie to the Rolex world (new or vintage). I've been eyeing on the 1680 red sub over the last month or so.

I saw two of these actual watches during my scouting around today (sorry no pics as I wasn't allowed to take any in the 2 respective stores where I found them), and based on the info I leaned from this link I have attached at the bottom they happen to have the Mark I dial (the stores told me -without showing me - that the series nos for these two are both 2,0xx,xxx; so they both seem to pass the dial-vs-series-number test).

Both watches have good patina with dials that are clean but possibly services (?). Both watches have hands that look very good so possibly serviced (?). Also both have clear crystals in good shape with reasonable signs of wear.

Being concious that I want a 1680 red and therefore may be biased, I was telling myself to be honest and to stay critical about the condition of the two watches I saw today compared to the images of similar watches on chrono24 and Instagram. My own judgement (as a newbie to the vintage rolex world) is that both of these two watches are in more than fine condition.

The one thing that holds me back the most: neither of these watches have papers (one of them is a big used/vintage Rolex seller in Hong Kong so likely I will get a period-correct box if I buy from this shop).

I don't want to rush myself into an acquisition that involves quite an amount of money for a watch (they both go for about 21k). So I come here hoping I could get some help from TRFers who tend to have very good knowledge and are willing to offer good advices.

I have read a number of articles lately but don't think there's enough that would help me identify if these two are good examples vs Franken versions. The only thing I know I could do is to ask them to actually show me the series number between the lugs.

Also I know it's not exact science but there seems to be a lack of guidance in terms of price range vs condition vs paper/no-paper.

I would be really grateful if some of you could shed some light on a few questions and help me make a decision:

1. Should I just walk out because these watches have no paper? Is 21k reasonable price range for a 1680 red sub with no paper these days? Or what would be the negotiation strategies to get price down the price for a watch with no paper?

2. If the dial and hands are services would it mean the watch is a "Franken"?

3. What is the best way to assess if a watch has been polished? and what level of polishing would make a watch over-polished?

4. Is there something I can do to more accurately evaluate whether these two are genuine, period-correct 1680 red sub which don't have their dial replaced to look like a much rarer Mark I?


http://www.watchprosite.com/rolex/ro...49211.4075146/


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