Daytona C as investment...

[regnant]

Until this Daytona 116500 LN hype or demand slackens the chances for you to sell it over retail price is higher than any other Rolex models. However, if you sell it you may not find another one soon and you can't buy a entry level car from a premium German Brand for the money that comes from the trade even if you would sell it to the highest price as possible.

[Andad]

I have never sold or traded a watch.

If I could buy a 500 for US retail I would do it tomorrow but only to keep it.

Down the track it might be worth more to my wife and kids or it may not be

Only time will tell but it won't be telling me.

[brandrea]

When I think of investing, I think of things like stocks, ETF's, bonds and (real estate to a lesser degree).

When I think of buying a watch, I think of the "feeling" I get when I wear it. Nothing more nothing less.

[Sublovin]

This seems like a bad idea but who knows. The only reason people are paying a premium for this watch is because it is new and they don't feel like waiting in line.
It has nothing to do with scarcity or collectibility. Over time, everyone who wants one and has the money will be able to buy one.
Not exactly a recipe for appreciation

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by crpinto

could you consider to buy the "new" Daytona C for the sole purpose of an investment, if so do you think this particular model will increase it resell value thru the years.

No. Watches are not investments.

To clarify, how long will you hold this "investment" before you sell it and how much do you expect it to appreciate each year, less inflation?

[superstarmar]

Originally Posted by Chute

To me the "investment" aspect regarding Rolex is that you just might be able to buy the right model, wear it for many years, pay to have it serviced and then sell it 5-10 years down the line and not have lost any money but gained the use of it for "free"

100% .... spot on ...

[airchitect]

If you can buy one at msrp and flip it asap you'll make money, otherwise you'll at least beat inflation

[ap1]

Originally Posted by Sublovin

This seems like a bad idea but who knows. The only reason people are paying a premium for this watch is because it is new and they don't feel like waiting in line.
It has nothing to do with scarcity or collectibility. Over time, everyone who wants one and has the money will be able to buy one.
Not exactly a recipe for appreciation

But you just defined scarcity?

[ap1]

116500 at msrp and 5711 are about the safest store of value in watchland. Thats not the same thing as an investment.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by ap1

116500 at msrp and 5711 are about the safest store of value in watchland. Thats not the same thing as an investment.

In the long and medium term for sure. In the short term at retail these are conduits for a quick and easy instant profit. These are kind of like reverse investments, more like stock options.

[ap1]

Originally Posted by AK797

In the long and medium term for sure. In the short term at retail these are conduits for a quick and easy instant profit. These are kind of like reverse investments, more like stock options.

I think you are saying the premium will decay overt ime as the options become worthless. I agree at their inflated pricing. I was more saying if you get these two at msrp, you get a wearable store of value and that's nirvana in this hobby.

[Sublovin]

Originally Posted by ap1

But you just defined scarcity?

Temporarily, yes....there is limited availability. That will go away because this is not a limited production piece. The OP wants to sock it away for 10 years...probably a bad idea. This watch is a better short-term investment than long in my opinion.
Rolex is a lot of things....limited and rare is not usually one of them.

[maxutil]

On a tangent, when do you guys think I could buy a white dial Daytona C at retail or slightly above? I'm not on any waiting lists at AD's, but maybe sometime I will add myself. I live in Los Angeles.

I was hoping that the supply and demand would turn out like the BLNR, and it could become readily available within a couple years after release. But from the looks of it, that isn't happening any time soon.

[Sublovin]

Originally Posted by maxutil

On a tangent, when do you guys think I could buy a white dial Daytona C at retail or slightly above? I'm not on any waiting lists at AD's, but maybe sometime I will add myself. I live in Los Angeles.

I was hoping that the supply and demand would turn out like the BLNR, and it could become readily available within a couple years after release. But from the looks of it, that isn't happening any time soon.

It's been out around a year...give it time and be patient. They are churning them out...it should happen

[Smarties]

There's no option involved, no right to be exercised, and no definitive date of expiry (actually time value works the opposite way in the long run).
I think even if you purchase one at msrp and you wear it for 10 years, you may able to sell it at 10-20% higher than your purchase price (in nominal term, not in real term). Is this a good investment (for monetary return)? Absolutely not. You may say you earn the time to wear the watch on you wrist. But strictly speaking, it's not an investment (for seeking monetary return)!

[AK797]

Originally Posted by ap1

I think you are saying the premium will decay overt ime as the options become worthless. I agree at their inflated pricing. I was more saying if you get these two at msrp, you get a wearable store of value and that's nirvana in this hobby.

Yup, these are very safe value havens long term. Not one to buy and not wear, best to wear it enjoy it and you'll still do well when you sell, as I think supply will continue to be limited and prices will remain above retail for quite some time.

Originally Posted by Smarties

There's no option involved, no right to be exercised, and no definitive date of expiry (actually time value works the opposite way in the long run).
I think even if you purchase one at msrp and you wear it for 10 years, you may able to sell it at 10-20% higher than your purchase price (in nominal term, not in real term). Is this a good investment (for monetary return)? Absolutely not. You may say you earn the time to wear the watch on you wrist. But strictly speaking, it's not an investment (for seeking monetary return)!

Well there's the option to sell. I didn't mean it literally just that these are like trading commodities on insider info, instant large profits to be made, as opposed to the usual buy and hold investments.

[904VT]

Consider it an investment if your investing philosophy is to buy high, sell low

If anything a SS Daytona purchased at MSRP is closer to a store of value like gold is, rather than an investment. You'll never make serious money on a modern Daytona unless you take delivery of an 116500 in the short term and quickly flip it for a profit. IMO though a buyer shouldn't be on a Daytona list if their intent is solely to flip. It's just a waste of everyone's time at that point

[Will1979]

A bit of a tangential but related question: ap1 said above that some Rolex (presumably SS sports models) are a safe store of value, and that's certainly been true since I've been collecting watches, which happened to coincide with an aggresive run-up in retail prices, spurred in large part by demand from Asian markets. Question is: was there a time when even a Rolex was like any other luxury good and just depreciated? How far do we have to look back for the last time they were not safe stores of value, and what are the chances of those days returning? That would be my chief concern with any long-term "investment" play in a "collectible."

[lecorsaire]

It will appreciate like every SS Daytona if held long enough and maintained in excellent condition. But who knows? Past performance has no influence on the future. Perhaps in 10 years the Daytona craze will die down. Maybe a bear market is on the way. Perhaps when this generation grows up they won't have an interest in mechanical watches. The only sure thing is that if you can get one now for retail you can make a quick profit, but that's a really messed up thing to do imo. There are so many people who genuinely want to wear the watch. Honestly I think ADs should make people engrave the caseback to prevent them from being diverted straight to the GM. If it were me I would never get rid of a white dial 116500LN. I know I won't have it for a couple of years but I'm simply in love with the watch.

[904VT]

Originally Posted by AK797

Well there's the option to sell. I didn't mean it literally just that these are like trading commodities on insider info, instant large profits to be made, as opposed to the usual buy and hold investments.

I know exactly what you mean

The buyers from ADs are being given the equivalent of an IPO at a huge discount to market value or as you mentioned free in the money call options. These unofficial free embedded options have huge current deltas i.e. you're screwed with a small supply driven market quantity increase of the underlying because it's the equivalent of floating more equity into the market and diluting the option value. I think this is what the above poster was trying to convey with time value of money near expiration, but delta is a better term since the embedded is technically available in perpetuity (undetermined expiration), so delta is not influenced by an expiration date in practice.

Do you want to invest in that, not I

[s14roller]

Nope

[Speed]

Originally Posted by crpinto

Dear All,



Bought my first and only Rolex in 2010, since I remember always wanted the submariner but end up choosing the GMT II, and wear it in a daily basis.



About 2 or 3 years ago almost bought the submariner, but felt will end with 2 very similar watches, and have to share wrist time and probably buy a winder and a bring a lot of confusion to my life :-)



I guess I like the idea of having only one.



Now the question, and hope not to offend anyone here, could you consider to buy the "new" Daytona C for the sole purpose of an investment, if so do you think this particular model will increase it resell value thru the years.



Does it make a big difference if it is kept in the box unused for let's say 10 or 15 years or is it used very esporadic once or twice a year.



Appreciate your thoughts.



Thank you.

Just what sort of appreciation would get your knees to knocking?

Sure the watch might get you a couple grand more - if discontinued - or not.

But the fact is... it's not a NOS Paul Newman or Double Red Submariner Sea Dweller is it?

Buy it to wear it!

[lhanddds]

Originally Posted by Tools

Typically those pieces that are going for a premium initially, fall back to a normal market price after the production run picks up. Sellers today know that and are trying to make their money now, while they can.

x2