So, it is actually really hard to buy a watch online

[rr-nyc]

Originally Posted by dmash

This is commonly thrown around and is incorrect. If the buyer pays with friends and family and uses a credit card, he can STILL report to his credit card company for fraud, unauthorized transaction, gift sent by mistake, etc etc and they will 99% of the time reverse the transaction. What makes this actually even WORSE for a seller is that with friends and family they have ZERO paypal seller protection against these claims as it was a 'gift' to begin with and you're not losing anything if you didn't receive the payment anyways.

Just clearing this up as I know multiple people who have been burned this way. IT is NOT safe for sellers to accept friends and family if the purchaser uses their credit card. ONLY if they use their paypal balance.

You would be committing fraud yourself if you knowingly and voluntarily sent the money to a "friend or family member" when it was actually a transaction and then reported it as an unauthorized transaction, gift sent by mistake, etc etc as you say when none of those reasons are true.

[JP Chestnut]

Originally Posted by mfer

If you buy from one of the majors you need not worry about trust from them. Thanh, David, Tony, etc have exemplary customer service. If you wire them money you will get your watch. You'll have to pay your import taxes being in Australia.

He wants to PayPal, which suuuuuuucks for the seller. None of those guys are going to do an international paypal deal.

[RolEdx]

Wow, thanks for the warm welcome everyone.

Just to clarify - the reason why I prefer to use my credit card is because of the protection it offers (independent of PayPal) e.g. accidental loss, damage, theft, and extended warranty over the manufacturer's. I'd be happy to pay with CC directly without PayPal if the buyer has the ability to process that.

For the record, I do have a publicly visible eBay profile that shows that I've been a member since 2001 and have a 100% record.

I'll check out the sellers mentioned above. Have already been in touch with DavidSW previously but he had sold the watch I wanted.

Thanks again for all the replies.

Cheers.

[RolEdx]

@tamiya, I'm in Melbourne, but there's no stock and prices in Melbourne/Australia are terrible compared to the US in general.

[tamiya]

Originally Posted by RolEdx

@tamiya, I'm in Melbourne, but there's no stock and prices in Melbourne/Australia are terrible compared to the US in general.

Well... that depends where you look, what you're looking for & what circles you hang about in

If you're after something "high demand' then yeah, I doubt if it'll be any easier finding it on this giant island vs rest of the world. Yeah our local RRPs are crazy high and discounts aren't as common.

But if you know exactly what you want, there's some agents around that can keep an eye out for you.

Otoh... shipping anything decent in will pose GST implications. (So does buying from local dealers, whenever they've bought stock from a private seller). Whereas airfare to Asia or HongKong might only be $1k or hey you could jump on a Jetstar to USA for $1500? If you haven't got rellos who regularly travel for biz or VFR that is.

[RolEdx]

Originally Posted by tamiya

Well... that depends where you look, what you're looking for & what circles you hang about in

Sounds like I need to get into your circles...

[cajunron]

Originally Posted by keschete

Be patient grasshopper! I've been here ten years and bought my first watch from the forum last year

X2. Good things come to those who wait. Sometimes in life you have to pay your dues.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by rr-nyc

You would be committing fraud yourself if you knowingly and voluntarily sent the money to a "friend or family member" when it was actually a transaction and then reported it as an unauthorized transaction, gift sent by mistake, etc etc as you say when none of those reasons are true.

You're completely misunderstanding. I'm stating this because it can potentially happen to a seller. You think a scammer has a moral compass who cares about this? Get real. These are the same people who will get their money back from PayPal by claiming an empty box, etc. when you buy and sell enough through PayPal you see this stuff. It's ridiculous. And PayPal will ALWAYS side with the buyer. *I'm not using this as an example of something I would personally do, I'm saying there are plenty of people who do it.

I've looked into this thoroughly because I got burned a few times and wanted to 100% try to avoid this at all costs. There are literal FORUMS online created to give advice to one another on how to con online sellers. You think their credit card is going to argue with them when they ship it to another address under another name, use a VPN so it shows like the PayPal payment was sent from another country, etc? They'll have a watch, and their money back, zero issue.

[dmash]

OP you just need to realize that this is why a lot of online watch sellers are hesitant with PayPal. It's a breeding ground for con artists.

[RolEdx]

Originally Posted by dmash

OP you just need to realize that this is why a lot of online watch sellers are hesitant with PayPal. It's a breeding ground for con artists.

I certainly appreciate that and would feel the same way if I were the seller. However, I was just wondering why there's such a strong emphasis on post count instead of leveraging established online profiles such as LinkedIn, eBay, Facebook, etc. for verifying someone's identity.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by RolEdx

Sounds like I need to get into your circles...

Come on now, this is a family forum.

[rr-nyc]

Originally Posted by dmash

You're completely misunderstanding. I'm stating this because it can potentially happen to a seller. You think a scammer has a moral compass who cares about this? Get real. These are the same people who will get their money back from PayPal by claiming an empty box, etc. when you buy and sell enough through PayPal you see this stuff. It's ridiculous. And PayPal will ALWAYS side with the buyer. *I'm not using this as an example of something I would personally do, I'm saying there are plenty of people who do it.



I've looked into this thoroughly because I got burned a few times and wanted to 100% try to avoid this at all costs. There are literal FORUMS online created to give advice to one another on how to con online sellers. You think their credit card is going to argue with them when they ship it to another address under another name, use a VPN so it shows like the PayPal payment was sent from another country, etc? They'll have a watch, and their money back, zero issue.

You're completely right. I didn't look at it from a scammers perspective since I'm not a scammer

[Drolexd]

Anybody buy from chronocentric before?

[dmash]

Originally Posted by rr-nyc

You're completely right. I didn't look at it from a scammers perspective since I'm not a scammer

It sucks, I stopped selling high end stuff on eBay after I got burnt on different occasions. I literally couldn't believe the lies they would fabricate and Paypal will ALWAYS side with the buyer. 'I didn't get a computer, he sent me a brick'. or the best is when I had a refund policy, and they actually sent ME back a textbook instead of a $1000 item. Per Paypal, the package was delivered back to me, and that's all they need to refund his money. Unbelievable.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by dmash

You're completely misunderstanding. I'm stating this because it can potentially happen to a seller. You think a scammer has a moral compass who cares about this? Get real. These are the same people who will get their money back from PayPal by claiming an empty box, etc. when you buy and sell enough through PayPal you see this stuff. It's ridiculous. And PayPal will ALWAYS side with the buyer. *I'm not using this as an example of something I would personally do, I'm saying there are plenty of people who do it.

I've looked into this thoroughly because I got burned a few times and wanted to 100% try to avoid this at all costs. There are literal FORUMS online created to give advice to one another on how to con online sellers. You think their credit card is going to argue with them when they ship it to another address under another name, use a VPN so it shows like the PayPal payment was sent from another country, etc? They'll have a watch, and their money back, zero issue.

If we’re going to play out the ‘empty box’ scenario, then the easy way to protect yourself is to take photos of the watch at stages of it being packed up and addressed, as well as ensuring it’s insured for its full value with the courier.
Any claim by the buyer that his CC was somehow compromised, will result in his issuer carrying the loss, not the seller.
If he tries to claim through Paypal, then the photos and emails are the proof that a transaction was conducted, and it goes without saying that only an idiot leaves money sitting in their account, rather than removing it immediately.
It should also go without saying that you do NOT allow Paypal to use your bank account for anything other than depositing funds into – I know there are no fees when paying for things by allowing them to extract funds from your bank account, but it negates the safety net of making Paypal recoup what they believe is theirs, forcing you to chase them for a refund.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by PJ S

If we’re going to play out the ‘empty box’ scenario, then the easy way to protect yourself is to take photos of the watch at stages of it being packed up and addressed, as well as ensuring it’s insured for its full value with the courier.
Any claim by the buyer that his CC was somehow compromised, will result in his issuer carrying the loss, not the seller.
If he tries to claim through Paypal, then the photos and emails are the proof that a transaction was conducted, and it goes without saying that only an idiot leaves money sitting in their account, rather than removing it immediately.
It should also go without saying that you do NOT allow Paypal to use your bank account for anything other than depositing funds into – I know there are no fees when paying for things by allowing them to extract funds from your bank account, but it negates the safety net of making Paypal recoup what they believe is theirs, forcing you to chase them for a refund.

The pictures you talk about don't work. Google it. PayPal will side with the buyer.

Also, not linking bank account, immediately pulling funds, that's all fine and dandy when you're a casual seller. When you're a business doing multiple transactions a day it's a different ballgame and an insane hassle (especially when PayPal is a required accepted payment on eBay.)


Last, when a buyer claims his credit card was compromised or if he didn't get what he paid for, the issuer will give him a credit but then the issuer will chargeback the payment to PayPal. This results in PayPal then docking the sellers account for the money.

I'm speaking from actual experience on all these things, not just what I 'believe' might happen. You can even VIDEO TAPE you packing and shipping a high dollar item. Buyer claims it wasn't there? You're responsible. Per PayPal and ebay policy, the seller is responsible until it is in the buyer's hands.




*not trying to start an argument, but there's just so many misconceptions about the reality of PayPal. I'm incredibly familiar with all of them and it flat out screws sellers for the most part. Super convenient and safe for buyers, but it can turn out to be a major pain when people with not so good intention utilize it. There's a reason a lot of companies selling high end stuff refuse to accept PayPal. These are some of the reasons.

[Tony64]

And THIS, folks, is why wire transfer is the only 100% safe way to sell privately.

It's a shame, but it's easier and safer to just trade/sell to a dealer at wholesale then risk finding a legitimate end user with PayPal.

Maybe a third party escow service would solve the problem? Is there even such a thing for watches?