A poll regarding honesty and integrity...

[Bryant Park]

The follow up poll will ask for 10k, 15k or 20k would your answer change. The story below applies.

Winston Churchill at a pub asks a single lady "my fair maiden for a million pounds would you consider sleeping with me". She responds "for a million pounds I would have to consider it". He quickly retorts "how about for 5 pence". She angrily responds "what do you take me for". Churchill dryly answers "we have established that we are now squabbling over price".

[geebob]

I would tell them that I already had one.

Forgive me, but I fail to see honesty or integrity issue here. In the scenario above, I had an opportunity to buy it. IMHO the fact that I already had one didn't mean anything, unless there's a law that forbid us from owning two Daytona. But since there's no law was broken and no one was hurt nor going to be hurt, if I wanted to have two Daytonas I would buy it.

[Bryant Park]

Originally Posted by geebob

I would tell them that I already had one.

Forgive me, but I fail to see honesty or integrity issue here. In the scenario above, I had an opportunity to buy it. IMHO the fact that I already had one didn't mean anything, unless there's a law that forbid us from owning two Daytona. But since there's no law was broken and no one was hurt nor going to be hurt, if I wanted to have two Daytonas I would buy it.

I hate to be overly nuanced but one can display a lack of integrity in the absence of breaking the law. While it is debatable the degree of harm the person next on the waiting list would incur, they would in fact be harmed by virtue of further delay. Further it would be a matter of honesty as dealers anticipate your intent is to be a "true" owner. If truthful that you already own it or intend on flipping it most dealers would not sell to you. Lastly the poll anticipated people trying to find fault or exceptions so that the unlikely scenario that you own one and want another identical watch could be incorporated into the "other" response.

Thank you for your constructive input and criticism. It is noted and taken under advisement.

[Chewbacca]

Your character is fine along with your integrity and I don't think anyone, nor you should lose sleep over the matter.

[Bluside]

I like to think that I have a good relationship with my local AD. That relationship would probably be ruined if they knew I bought it just to flip.

If it was some AD that I have no relationship with, I'd probably buy it and flip it.

[BNA/LION]

Other (please describe)...

Buy It! Offer it on TRF to a Watch Lover and just cover your costs...

The good things you do for others will come back to you. Every positive action creates multiple positive reactions.

[GradyPhilpott]

I don't think this has much to do with honesty and integrity.

Is it wrong to buy a product when it is offered?

Is it wrong to sell your own property, whether or not a profit is made?

This is what's called the free market in my humble judgement.

[tamiya]

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

I don't think this has much to do with honesty and integrity.

Is there even a law (or AD agreement) against owning multiples?

Does it make difference if your earlier unit was bought grey with markup?

[Flywheel]

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

I don't think this has much to do with honesty and integrity.

Is it wrong to buy a product when it is offered?

Is it wrong to sell your own property, whether or not a profit is made?

This is what's called the free market in my humble judgement.

Thank you. The very premise of this question wrong. It implies there's some element of high-minded charity in buying and selling luxury watches. Just be clear, rolex is a business in the business of making money.

[Bryant Park]

Originally Posted by Flywheel

Thank you. The very premise of this question wrong. It implies there's some element of high-minded charity in buying and selling luxury watches. Just be clear, rolex is a business in the business of making money.

Actually I don't have any issue at all with buying and flipping. I am as much a capitalist and believer in free markets as anyone.

I have however grown tired of the endless stream of people complaining about scarcity of Daytonas, the unfair reality that they can't buy a 5522, under production, etc and blaming Rolex and PP. We should look in the mirror and stop whining. A significant percentage of our community is exposing a view that creates their very own inablilty to get the watches they covet yet we blame the brands.

I have always been able to get what I wanted from my AD because they know I am loyal and don't resell unless an exception to the rule. Many of the responses suggest they want their cake and eat it to. I don't think they are wrong just unrealistic.

So now I know I will be attacked for this view but that is the answer to how I have managed to get some amazing hard to get watches. You can hate on my saying it but the results are what they are.

[Flywheel]

Originally Posted by Bryant Park

Actually I don't have any issue at all with buying and flipping. I am as much a capitalist and believer in free markets as anyone.

I have however grown tired of the endless stream of people complaining about scarcity of Daytonas, the unfair reality that they can't buy a 5522, under production, etc and blaming Rolex and PP. We should look in the mirror and stop whining. A significant percentage of our community is exposing a view that creates their very own inablilty to get the watches they covet yet we blame the brands.

I have always been able to get what I wanted from my AD because they know I am loyal and don't resell unless an exception to the rule. Many of the responses suggest they want their cake and eat it to. I don't think they are wrong just unrealistic.

So now I know I will be attacked for this view but that is the answer to how I have managed to get some amazing hard to get watches. You can hate on my saying it but the results are what they are.

It's not an attack, and it's certainly not hatred. I just don't accept the premise that a question of flipping is related to honesty or integrity.

[Bryant Park]

Originally Posted by Flywheel

It's not an attack, and it's certainly not hatred. I just don't accept the premise of the question.

Sorry not taken that way at all

[SearChart]

Well you've 'waited' and this is essentially free money.

[martinr]

I'd flip it. What's funny is we call people on here trusted sellers and flippers is exactly what they are. I'd also try and get as much as I could for it. It's not an honesty and integrity issue.

[City74]

I would buy it and sell it. There is nothing wrong with making a profit. That’s called free enterprise. That’s what keeps things going, money. Do you think our “friends” in the for sale section aren’t making something? I have no clue how this has anything to do with honesty nor integrity.

[mailman]

Go on take the money and run.

[MonBK]

I would buy it, flip it and sleep well.

What does this have to do with honesty and integrity?

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Bryant Park

The scenario is as follows:

You already own a SS white face ceramic Rolex Daytona. A long forgotten dealer call yields a call saying " your name came up the watch is yours at list". Please answer honestly and whichever most describes the driving factor behind your action.

This was driven by a discussion on PP and no character attacks should result please.

IMO there is a difference so i voted "other". Flipping a mass produced daytona for a profit is acceptable to me where as flipping a LE Patek is less acceptable to me personally. I personally make a distinction between a collectors piece and a commodity. I might be splitting hairs here but we all have our own definition of what we are ok with and what we are not.

[SDRider]

Someone here had the same thing happen to him and he offered the chance to purchase the watch up to another forum member which I thought was a very nice gesture. So, that is what I would do in your situation.

Flipping it for a profit would certainly be a possibility but I wouldn’t want to hassle with it personally.

[themast]

Voted 'other'

I would try to hook the dealer up with a friend who I know wants the watch.

[1William]

It would depend on my relationship with the store. If it was a list Daytona from an AD I had no relationship with or expectation that we might do business again I would purchase and then do what I wanted. I was number two on my AD list from original release date For a new Daytona-C and I took my name off the list because I was not over the top with the watch. I also have a long term relationship with them that I would not do anything to harm. I do not see this as an ethical situation unless you misrepresent information.

[codecow]

For me scalping a watch is not worth the hassle, so no.

[Bigblu10]

There is no lack of integrity buying and flipping a luxury watch for profit. After all, the guys selling watches in the for sale section are in business to do exactly this!

Lack of integrity to me is; Big box retailers selling $5 cases of bottled water for $50 in the wake of a natural disaster such as a devastating flood or natural disaster. That is not capitalism, IMO.

[AzPaul]

In the name of keeping my integrity intact, I'd hold on to the new one and sell the one I already have.

[Bryant Park]

Originally Posted by AzPaul

In the name of keeping my integrity intact, I'd hold on to the new one and sell the one I already have.

Well played

[KarlS]

I was nt looking and was offered a blackdial in September. I went through the normal protestations asking who would I be depriving , is he a good customer, more deserving blah blah blah...I shouldn't as somebody is probably desperate and I am ambivalent etc etc...3 days later said "bollocks...I have bought the right to play and said yes...send it to me" at the moment I wear it and I don't know if it's a long term keeper...life ain't fair ..that's just reality!

[codecow]

Originally Posted by KarlS

I was nt looking and was offered a blackdial in September. I went through the normal protestations asking who would I be depriving , is he a good customer, more deserving blah blah blah...I shouldn't as somebody is probably desperate and I am ambivalent etc etc...3 days later said "bollocks...I have bought the right to play and said yes...send it to me" at the moment I wear it and I don't know if it's a long term keeper...life ain't fair ..that's just reality!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.....

j/k

[justdate]

What is unethical about taking the profit? It's as though people should have the right to buy an underpriced luxury watch and flippers deprive them of that right! It's not like Rolex is a charity and is passing on a much loved piece for you to treasure, it's all just business, if they wanted to change the market conditions they very easily could by no longer underpricing/undersupplying these models - it is the Rolex strategy that creates this issue, not market participants who are acting rationally.

Offer me a watch I can resell for a profit and I'll take it, I'll try it for a few days and see if I like it and what I personally think it's worth. If it's worth more to me than the trade in, I'll keep it, if it's worth less to me than trade in then I'll sell it. I just see it as a free option to try something new.

[Bryant Park]

Originally Posted by justdate

What is unethical about taking the profit? It's as though people should have the right to buy an underpriced luxury watch and flippers deprive them of that right! It's not like Rolex is a charity and is passing on a much loved piece for you to treasure, it's all just business, if they wanted to change the market conditions they very easily could by no longer underpricing/undersupplying these models - it is the Rolex strategy that creates this issue, not market participants who are acting rationally.

Agreed so pay up, build a relationship with a dealer or wait. No more tears. It's business. But to say you would flip and then complain about scarcity or the price is pure hypocrisy in my opinion.

[justdate]

Originally Posted by Bryant Park

Agreed so pay up, build a relationship with a dealer or wait. No more tears. It's business. But to say you would flip and then complain about scarcity or the price is pure hypocrisy in my opinion.

The flipping is a result of the undersupply and underpricing, it's the supply issue which fuels the demand. That is why Rolex do it. Fix retail pricing or supply and the demand will reduce significantly, as will hype, desirability and secondary values.

The list price is pretty meaningless, the secondary value is the true price of the watch. If you wouldn't buy one at secondary price, then acting rationally if you bought one at list you should resell it if someone offered you than the secondary market value for it. Why would you not sell something that you can get more for than you think it's worth!

And if you think it's worth the secondary price, then you could go and buy one right now anyway.


I don't have any issue with the tactics of undersupply or underpricing, I think it is truly genius how well it works and how much these companies have got us paying for simple watches. If I wanted a Daytona Ceramic I would go and order one online right now for £15k, it's not tricky and I have no issue paying the market price for something.