Need advice - buyer claims watch received fake

[dysondiver]

hope you get a good result ...
i had a similar e bay problem a few years ago with a bike ,,, but one of my friends belongs to a fairly big motor bike club , for a small donation they sent a local representative to resolve the issue on my behalf ,,, job done .
but it made me wary of e bay
e bay is great if every one plays honestly , but they dont , and thats where the problems arise.

[yxc145]

Originally Posted by dysondiver

hope you get a good result ...
i had a similar e bay problem a few years ago with a bike ,,, but one of my friends belongs to a fairly big motor bike club , for a small donation they sent a local representative to resolve the issue on my behalf ,,, job done .
but it made me wary of e bay
e bay is great if every one plays honestly , but they dont , and thats where the problems arise.

how was the "Job done"?

[tamiya]

Plenty of bikie gangs down in Melbourne too, if needs be...

[Ouro9999]

I think this is a scam. Well if you have the original purchase invoice, i would file it as stolen at RSC and Police. I think this guy took a fake one instead of your watch to RSC. So if one day your watch ever goes to service it may be returned to you. As for the money i believe you have lost it.

Enviado de meu SM-G955F usando Tapatalk

[michaelodonnell123]

Ask the scammer to show the following:
An official police report of his claim that you scammed him
An official letter from Rolex that he brought it to them and they said it was fake
Evidence that he actually went to the Rolex service center (video footage, parking receipt, a letter from an employee there that says he was actually there)
Photos of the watch he says is fake (including photos of the movement)
A letter from a third party jeweler indicating the watch is fake along with photos of the jeweler and the 'fake' watch
...keep him busy by putting the burden of proof upon him.

[michaelodonnell123]

Originally Posted by 007timer

... The truth is on your side. Now you just need to put up a fight and prove it.

...The truth is a terrible defense.

[roach7]

Originally Posted by michaelodonnell123

Ask the scammer to show the following:
An official police report of his claim that you scammed him
An official letter from Rolex that he brought it to them and they said it was fake
Evidence that he actually went to the Rolex service center (video footage, parking receipt, a letter from an employee there that says he was actually there)
Photos of the watch he says is fake (including photos of the movement)
A letter from a third party jeweler indicating the watch is fake along with photos of the jeweler and the 'fake' watch
...keep him busy by putting the burden of proof upon him.

Should I contact him directly or communicate this to PayPal? Once he escalates the claim I no longer can comment on the dispute on the PayPal system...

Thanks

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by roach7

Should I contact him directly or communicate this to PayPal? Once he escalates the claim I no longer can comment on the dispute on the PayPal system...

Thanks

I think he'll tell you to pound sand if you present him with that laundry list - I know I would. He's under no obligation to send you all that documentation and probably knows it.

Best you can do is ask for a qualified letter proving that the watch is fake. If he can present that to eBay then I'm afraid you'll lose. It's his word against yours and unless he's got a shady history with eBay, I think he'll prevail.

Not at all fair, but to expect anything else is wishful thinking.

Have you checked his eBay feedback?

[roach7]

The twist here is he's bypassing eBay and escalating the claim directly with PayPal... Why would he do that?

[michaelodonnell123]

Originally Posted by roach7

Should I contact him directly or communicate this to PayPal? Once he escalates the claim I no longer can comment on the dispute on the PayPal system...

Thanks

Since the transaction began with eBay and PayPal, then you should continue this through eBay and PayPal and not with him. Ask them to ask him to furnish all of the requested documents.

[michaelodonnell123]

Originally Posted by Tony64

I think he'll tell you to pound sand if you present him with that laundry list - I know I would. He's under no obligation to send you all that documentation and probably knows it.


Have you checked his eBay feedback?

Actually he is under obligation. If he claims that it is a fake then he has to prove it.

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by michaelodonnell123

Actually he is under obligation. If he claims that it is a fake then he has to prove it.

Yes, but to who's satisfaction? Yours or eBay's??

All eBay is likely to require is a letter from a qualified expert stating that the watch is fake. Video footage, parking receipts, affidavits from the store employee that he spoke with, photos of the employee, etc, are beyond what is usually expected, in my opinion of course.

eBay/PayPal will decide for themselves what documentation they require. I'm just saying that the buyer/scammer has no obligation to provide these things to the seller. "Keeping him busy" as you say, I don't think will prove an effective strategy, but I hope I'm wrong.

[Tony64]

PayPal/eBay is notoriously buyer friendly, and the reason so many sellers accept only wire transfer.

Sending a watch from NYC to Australia and acccepting PayPal as payment is an enormous risk unless the buyer has impeccable references.

I wouldn't expect a happy ending, but a lesson learned the hard way.

[yxc145]

I think Ebay or some third party (FEDEX or UPS) should provide service to authenticate, confirm product functional, or as witness for sellers when packaging/shipping their products. That way, they can act as witness, provide evidence for cases like this.
Of course, not authenticate jewelry or watches like this since it takes a lot more than FEDEX or UPS clerk to do that. But at least they can do the basic like matching serial numbers, making sure item was not damaged, etc.

[breitlings]

I had a couple of issues selling iPhones internationally with eBay and PayPal. Including one you describe. However, I would be very concerned the seller has a fake watch and is going to send that back to you and use that as evidence. I would show the AD receipt and respond to every thing the seller says in eBay message center as Ewok suggested above. I did win everytime but it does make me hesitant to deal with high ticket items and do not ship internationally anymore.

[gmooreil]

Interesting

[yxc145]

Originally Posted by breitlings

I had a couple of issues selling iPhones internationally with eBay and PayPal. Including one you describe. However, I would be very concerned the seller has a fake watch and is going to send that back to you and use that as evidence. I would show the AD receipt and respond to every thing the seller says in eBay message center as Ewok suggested above. I did win everytime but it does make me hesitant to deal with high ticket items and do not ship internationally anymore.

The problem is.. the scammer can say that the watch he received is not the same watch as the one seller purchased from AD. Scammer can argue that seller did not package/ship the real watch. That's why without 3rd party witness the package/shipping process, it is hard to prove.
I filed a report with the Cyber crime division with FBI, but I doubt they will do much to help your case. Especially this scammer is in a different country.

[epc2]

Did you keep a copy of the warranty card or do you have it on the receipt?

You can ask him to provide proof that he went to the RSC and that that serial # belongs to a fake watch , of course he won't provide that.

I hope you can resolve this issue, I think your feedback here on this forum might help with the claim.

I hate these scammers.

[crowncollection]

I feel for you this is my worst nightmare when I occasionally sell on ebay, this is an old scam, you really cannot avoid, he likely did take a fake to rolex and has a letter, I have seen before, the seller had sold thousands of watches, paypal side with the buyer almost every time even thought the buyer in the case i mentioned had almost no feedback. Last time we started by mentioning his name and ebay ID in every response post so when people google searched his name came up as a scammer, Have you tried to find him on social media sites ?

[roach7]

Latest update - I have contacted PayPal and they will give the buyer 3 days to upload evidence of his claims. I will also upload the bill of sales and picture of the warranty card to PayPal as well.

Thanks for everyone's help so far!

[GLADIATOR]

sounds good

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by roach7

Latest update - I have contacted PayPal and they will give the buyer 3 days to upload evidence of his claims. I will also upload the bill of sales and picture of the warranty card to PayPal as well.

Thanks for everyone's help so far!

this is promising.

hope it works out.

[amg55]

One option I'd consider is to tell the scammer that you are filing a fraud report with the Victorian police and you'll personally fly over to see it through. Perhaps this may knock some senses into this scammer. Sadly, PayPal is just too biased towards the buyers.

[Classique Breguet]

I would go the hiring the local muscle route. You can demonstrate that you too know the difference between illegal and unenforceable. These scammers are usually let off way too easy. No penalties if they get caught.

They really should be taught that there are other means of justice available and by perpetrating such a crime, they lose control of their personal safety and freedom, even if the police are too lazy and ebay doesn't care and paypal falls for it again and again.

[socalwatchcollector]

Standard bait and switch online scam.. He will send you back a clunker after he gets his money from Paypal.

[socalwatchcollector]

Check Linkedin.. Same name came up and says he is in marketing out of Melbourne.

[tamiya]

If you care to reveal which suburb buyer is in I can advise where's the local copshop.

Worth giving them a chat on the blower, costs next to nothing these days with VoIP.

Peter Kryvonosov. Marketing Consultant at Melbourne Web Co. Location: Mill Park, Victoria, Australia; Industry: Marketing and Advertising. Current. Melbourne Web Co.

[tamiya]

Mill Park vicpol
Opening Hours: 24 Hours.
Street Address: 151 Centenary Drive.
Suburb: Mill Park.
State: VIC
Postcode:3082
Phone: (03) 94073333
Fax: (03) 94073303
Email: [email protected]

&

Rolex Service Centre
7/18 Oliver Ln, Melbourne VIC 3000
Ph (03) 9654 3988

fwiw. Wish you best luck in getting matter sorted amicably.

[roach7]

Originally Posted by tamiya

Mill Park vicpol
Opening Hours: 24 Hours.
Street Address: 151 Centenary Drive.
Suburb: Mill Park.
State: VIC
Postcode:3082
Phone: (03) 94073333
Fax: (03) 94073303
Email: [email protected]

&

Rolex Service Centre
7/18 Oliver Ln, Melbourne VIC 3000
Ph (03) 9654 3988

fwiw. Wish you best luck in getting matter sorted amicably.

this is good to know, the police is less than 3km from his house

[cajunron]

Good luck Henry. I know you have been here for many years and know you have an outstanding reputation. I can vouch for that. Maybe Paypal will view this thread and let it be confirmation of your character.