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kingofthehill · 2 March 2018, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myporsche

Correct, if they want to control the secondary market and get the newest and coveted watches in the hands of serious collectors and AP aficionados there's no reason a gray should have the watch, a NEW watch, at a markup before the end user. There are better ways to control the supply chain rather than just closing down AD's, limiting supplies, and only selling at MSRP.

With the digitalisation of their records through the warranty process, I guess that they may well uncover some of those flippers to their disadvantage on future pieces.

Koi6715 · 2 March 2018, 10:04 AM

So what’s people thoughts on the Ti Schumi at £50k and the Lebron at 60k
Almost double the equivalent 44 mm same material equivalent
Both models not exactly 50-200 run models, must be a dozen Ti schumi lebron each on Chrono24, and didn’t think the lebron was that well Received

Marciano490 · 2 March 2018, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koi6715

So what’s people thoughts on the Ti Schumi at £50k and the Lebron at 60k
Almost double the equivalent 44 mm same material equivalent
Both models not exactly 50-200 run models, must be a dozen Ti schumi lebron each on Chrono24, and didn’t think the lebron was that well Received

My thoughts are I’m excited to see where my Summer Edition goes in a few years.

conkers · 2 March 2018, 11:11 AM

I was offered USD50k for the IP but as it hasn’t arrived yet this is tomorrow’s problem!

benlee · 2 March 2018, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koi6715

So what’s people thoughts on the Ti Schumi at £50k and the Lebron at 60k
Almost double the equivalent 44 mm same material equivalent
Both models not exactly 50-200 run models, must be a dozen Ti schumi lebron each on Chrono24, and didn’t think the lebron was that well Received

Ti Schumi is a good buy. At least I dont think price can come down. Lebron... no idea. Never like that.

lapince · 5 March 2018, 01:59 AM

No reason for them not to, IMO each brand, well the few top ones, will have 2-3 impossible/very hard to get models, RM 011, 035 and 055, PP 5711-12, 5167, AP 15202, 15407, it's quite good business on the part of the companies, if all want the hard to get pieces they'll have to invest a lot in the brand before getting the piece they want.
A friend of mine yesterday went to Rolex Bangkok, he wanted to know about the Daytona C or Batman, before getting a chance at the Daytona he had to buy 40K euros of watches, and for the Batman he had to pay 1500 euros more than retail

DCheeta · 2 March 2018, 02:34 PM

Easy decision for me as I can’t afford 30k for one watch, but philosophically speaking I would sooner pay 30 for a 15202 than a 5711.

As a spectator this is really a fun market to watch. Curious to see where it heads.

GB-man · 2 March 2018, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCheeta

Easy decision for me as I can’t afford 30k for one watch, but philosophically speaking I would sooner pay 30 for a 15202 than a 5711.

As a spectator this is really a fun market to watch. Curious to see where it heads.

There is one way for it to go imho

I said it before but if these hit anywhere near 40k i'm selling mine as fast as possible. Wildly overpriced luxury goods double in price?

Cover your ass. If that is not a top I don't know what is.

tng11 · 3 March 2018, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GB-man

There is one way for it to go imho

I said it before but if these hit anywhere near 40k i'm selling mine as fast as possible. Wildly overpriced luxury goods double in price?

Cover your ass. If that is not a top I don't know what is.

Let's make a pact. Even though mine has sentimental value, it's definitely on the way out at 40K too. Too many other good watches to be had in that price range to say no to such an offer!

tonupbklyn · 3 March 2018, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tng11

Let's make a pact. Even though mine has sentimental value, it's definitely on the way out at 40K too. Too many other good watches to be had in that price range to say no to such an offer!

GB-man · 3 March 2018, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tng11

Let's make a pact. Even though mine has sentimental value, it's definitely on the way out at 40K too. Too many other good watches to be had in that price range to say no to such an offer!

No pact needed if I order a new car this thing might be on the block regardless. Not that I don't like it, I sure do, it is just the collection getting fatter than I require.

Vipes · 3 March 2018, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GB-man

No pact needed if I order a new car this thing might be on the block regardless. Not that I don't like it, I sure do, it is just the collection getting fatter than I require.

Nothing wrong with a fat collection

tng11 · 3 March 2018, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GB-man

No pact needed if I order a new car this thing might be on the block regardless. Not that I don't like it, I sure do, it is just the collection getting fatter than I require.

No harm in that. You wore and enjoyed the piece for a couple of months, and you stand to make some money on it too. Winning!

Rachdanon · 2 March 2018, 09:46 PM

AP can only go higher when Patek goes higher which they have, so no surprises. As long as the rankings are there, the higher the better in the veblen goods market. We humams are so funny :-)

kingofthehill · 3 March 2018, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Redbulls

Talk about crazy...a trusted seller is asking over $29K for an unworn 15202. Any takers??

Supporting the view of many that this model has been under-appreciated by collectors in the context of current market environment, the referenced piece has been sold in rather quick fashion.

tng11 · 4 March 2018, 12:26 AM

Looks like it sold.

Anyone want to place bets on the price of the next one? $35K?

tyler1980 · 4 March 2018, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tng11

Looks like it sold.

Anyone want to place bets on the price of the next one? $35K?

whats USD retail? I forgot

tng11 · 4 March 2018, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyler1980

whats usd retail? I forgot

$22,700

A meteoric rise in 15202 prices makes less sense to me than the 5711 as there are viable alternatives available (i.e. the 15400 and 15450). It's more a niche piece for WIS and has less mainstream appeal IMO.

kingofthehill · 4 March 2018, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tng11

A meteoric rise in 15202 prices makes less sense to me than the 5711 as there are viable alternatives available (i.e. the 15400 and 15450). It's more a niche piece for WIS and has less mainstream appeal IMO.

Having agonised for hours on end between these variants and being an owner of several, I can happily say that the 15450/15400 are not substitutes for the 15202. Though I agree it is more of a niche piece for WIS, of course.

AK797 · 4 March 2018, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tng11

$22,700

A meteoric rise in 15202 prices makes less sense to me than the 5711 as there are viable alternatives available (i.e. the 15400 and 15450). It's more a niche piece for WIS and has less mainstream appeal IMO.

I think pre-forums and just looking in ADs this would have been the case but now they are never in ADs and with most buyers looking online and seeing we "experts" equate the 202 with the 5711 and it's the original Genta etc, then buyers become more discerning.

scuba77 · 4 March 2018, 01:58 AM

This watch had Rrp of £16k in UK 2 years ago and now although not available from AD is £19k .There has been no price rise in the US and forgetting the so called hype for this watch now the US RRP is very low. Even with price in the high 20s in US it nothing compared to rises 5711/5712 had with the greys it’s still trading close to the list price everywhere else in the world !

GB-man · 4 March 2018, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conkers

I will keep it. I think it will be a great addition to the collection.

Even better

tyler1980 · 4 March 2018, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scuba77

This watch had Rrp of £16k in UK 2 years ago and now although not available from AD is £19k .There has been no price rise in the US and forgetting the so called hype for this watch now the US RRP is very low. Even with price in the high 20s in US it nothing compared to rises 5711/5712 had with the greys it’s still trading close to the list price everywhere else in the world !

its cheaper in the UK without tax. AP isnt making money on the 20% vat.

Its $21k in the UK vs $22,700 in the US... at "retail" pricing before tax is factored in. That's an MP issue not an AP issue

Id say UK price is low if any. I know they try to get worldwide pricing close, but if one place has 20% VAT and another has 8.25% sales tax, AP would have to make less money in the higher tax country if they want to make retail prices truly the same across the board.

scuba77 · 4 March 2018, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyler1980

its cheaper in the UK without tax. AP isnt making money on the 20% vat.

Its $21k in the UK vs $22,700 in the US... at "retail" pricing before tax is factored in. That's an MP issue not an AP issue

Id say UK price is low if any. I know they try to get worldwide pricing close, but if one place has 20% VAT and another has 8.25% sales tax, AP would have to make less money in the higher tax country if they want to make retail prices truly the same across the board.

Good point on the VAT , so only really more in UK when buy from reseller/ grey as there is no VAT in effect and or can’t claim it back .

tyler1980 · 4 March 2018, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scuba77

Good point on the VAT , so only really more in UK when buy from reseller/ grey as there is no VAT in effect and or can’t claim it back .

the VAT thing is a big deal. High VAT locations with similar RRP to low tax locations get raided by tourists. If they would just make VAT not reclaimable on luxury purchases over a certain amount then there might actually be some stock for locals. The US is a big market but there isnt the same incentive to bring home a bunch of watches from vacation as it is for visitors to Europe.

The government loses on all the tax revenue when it gets refunded and the locals who would pay the tax dont get watches because they are competing with the entire world. Its lose lose.

kingofthehill · 4 March 2018, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyler1980

the VAT thing is a big deal. High VAT locations with similar RRP to low tax locations get raided by tourists. If they would just make VAT not reclaimable on luxury purchases over a certain amount then there might actually be some stock for locals. The US is a big market but there isnt the same incentive to bring home a bunch of watches from vacation as it is for visitors to Europe.

The government loses on all the tax revenue when it gets refunded and the locals who would pay the tax dont get watches because they are competing with the entire world. Its lose lose.

Except that such policies support tourism and there are benefits derived to the economy from that.

mbalmz · 4 March 2018, 02:06 AM

aren't 15202s also much easier to get from ADs (in the US at least) than 5711s? my thinking was one could go to an AP boutique, put in a deposit and get one eventually (i.e. a wait but not a fake/non-existant amount of time like a 116500ln or a 5711). am i just completely behind on this?

GB-man · 4 March 2018, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbalmz

aren't 15202s also much easier to get from ADs (in the US at least) than 5711s? my thinking was one could go to an AP boutique, put in a deposit and get one eventually (i.e. a wait but not a fake/non-existant amount of time like a 116500ln or a 5711). am i just completely behind on this?

Last I checked the US boutiques were not taking any more deposits and the ADs just are not getting them.

TopherMins · 5 March 2018, 01:32 AM

An AD that I deal with is losing the AP brand (as has been discussed on this forum before) so I walked in and they had a rose gold Jumbo. I paid $41k for the watch brand new. It is truly mind boggling that someone would pay $12k less for the steel model but I guess that's what makes a market.

GB-man · 5 March 2018, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopherMins

An AD that I deal with is losing the AP brand (as has been discussed on this forum before) so I walked in and they had a rose gold Jumbo. I paid $41k for the watch brand new. It is truly mind boggling that someone would pay $12k less for the steel model but I guess that's what makes a market.

Congrats! Cellini? I bought my first AP off cellini on madison a few years back.

2 March 2018, 11:11 AM	#4
conkers "TRF" Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Real Name: Roger Location: Hong Kong Watch: Too many! Posts: 6,116	I was offered USD50k for the IP but as it hasn’t arrived yet this is tomorrow’s problem! __________________ IG: @conkers1971 Revolution Video Feature: https://www.revolution.watch/collect...f-conkers1971/

2 March 2018, 10:04 AM	#2
Koi6715 "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Uk Posts: 192	So what’s people thoughts on the Ti Schumi at £50k and the Lebron at 60k Almost double the equivalent 44 mm same material equivalent Both models not exactly 50-200 run models, must be a dozen Ti schumi lebron each on Chrono24, and didn’t think the lebron was that well Received

5 March 2018, 01:59 AM	#6
lapince "TRF" Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Mars Watch: 5712 Posts: 11,509	No reason for them not to, IMO each brand, well the few top ones, will have 2-3 impossible/very hard to get models, RM 011, 035 and 055, PP 5711-12, 5167, AP 15202, 15407, it's quite good business on the part of the companies, if all want the hard to get pieces they'll have to invest a lot in the brand before getting the piece they want. A friend of mine yesterday went to Rolex Bangkok, he wanted to know about the Daytona C or Batman, before getting a chance at the Daytona he had to buy 40K euros of watches, and for the Batman he had to pay 1500 euros more than retail

2 March 2018, 02:34 PM	#7
DCheeta "TRF" Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Real Name: Dave Location: NYC Posts: 7,181	Easy decision for me as I can’t afford 30k for one watch, but philosophically speaking I would sooner pay 30 for a 15202 than a 5711. As a spectator this is really a fun market to watch. Curious to see where it heads.

2 March 2018, 09:46 PM	#14
Rachdanon "TRF" Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Singapore Posts: 266	AP can only go higher when Patek goes higher which they have, so no surprises. As long as the rankings are there, the higher the better in the veblen goods market. We humams are so funny :-)

4 March 2018, 12:26 AM	#16
tng11 "TRF" Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: N/A Posts: 3,634	Looks like it sold. Anyone want to place bets on the price of the next one? $35K?

4 March 2018, 01:58 AM	#21
scuba77 "TRF" Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: UK Posts: 334	This watch had Rrp of £16k in UK 2 years ago and now although not available from AD is £19k .There has been no price rise in the US and forgetting the so called hype for this watch now the US RRP is very low. Even with price in the high 20s in US it nothing compared to rises 5711/5712 had with the greys it’s still trading close to the list price everywhere else in the world !

4 March 2018, 02:06 AM	#27
mbalmz 2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Real Name: marc Location: nyc Posts: 1,366	aren't 15202s also much easier to get from ADs (in the US at least) than 5711s? my thinking was one could go to an AP boutique, put in a deposit and get one eventually (i.e. a wait but not a fake/non-existant amount of time like a 116500ln or a 5711). am i just completely behind on this?

5 March 2018, 01:32 AM	#29
TopherMins "TRF" Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: FL Watch: AP, RM Posts: 273	An AD that I deal with is losing the AP brand (as has been discussed on this forum before) so I walked in and they had a rose gold Jumbo. I paid $41k for the watch brand new. It is truly mind boggling that someone would pay $12k less for the steel model but I guess that's what makes a market.

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