How do you feel about....

[dkg1616]

I told my AD I’d come with 100 dollar bills for an additional discount...said nope... didn’t care

[c41006]

Originally Posted by City74

Correct. First, I won’t send a bank transfer to anyone especially a “small business” that can’t even absorb CC fees. Next I pay with CC because in the end I save more money with cash back or points or the like

So if a seller has a watch for sale for $10,000 cash or $10,300 credit you’d rather them just price the watch at $10,300 regardless of how you pay? Then you earn your points/cash back making the whole thing a wash. I don’t get it.

Maybe they should just increase all their prices by 3% and the customers can ask for a cash discount when in communication with the seller

Personally I have absolutely no issue with them posting cash prices and paying an extra 3% if I want to use a card. I can see where you are coming from though as it isn’t the way it’s usually done in other businesses.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by c41006

So if a seller has a watch for sale for $10,000 cash or $10,300 credit you’d rather them just price the watch at $10,300 regardless of how you pay? Then you earn your points/cash back making the whole thing a wash. I don’t get it.

Maybe they should just increase all their prices by 3% and the customers can ask for a cash discount when in communication with the seller

Personally I have absolutely no issue with them posting cash prices and paying an extra 3% if I want to use a card. I can see where you are coming from though as it isn’t the way it’s usually done in other businesses.

This makes too much sense I guess. I tried to convey this in multiple postings and OP just got upset.

Who cares if it’s cash price and +3% for credit card, or ‘normal price’ and 3% discount for cash. It’s the EXACT same thing. That’s quite petty if you’re going to get held up on the wording.

[City74]

Originally Posted by Keadog

Bank wires can't be reversed. Did no one mention that or did I miss it in my hurried reading of the thread?

I stated that I would never bank wire a business money.

[City74]

Originally Posted by c41006

So if a seller has a watch for sale for $10,000 cash or $10,300 credit you’d rather them just price the watch at $10,300 regardless of how you pay? Then you earn your points/cash back making the whole thing a wash. I don’t get it.

Maybe they should just increase all their prices by 3% and the customers can ask for a cash discount when in communication with the seller

Personally I have absolutely no issue with them posting cash prices and paying an extra 3% if I want to use a card. I can see where you are coming from though as it isn’t the way it’s usually done in other businesses.

I’d tell em 10k and I use my card or its a no go

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by dmash

This makes too much sense I guess. I tried to convey this in multiple postings and OP just got upset.

Who cares if it’s cash price or +3% for credit card, or ‘normal price’ then 3% discount for cash. It’s the EXACT same thing. That’s quite petty if you’re going to get held up on the wording.

No you ddn’t. You said the wire price was a discount. It isn’t. The CC price is an added fee. It’s not the customary way of doing business with a CC, and everybody knows it.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

No you ddn’t. You said the wire price was a discount. It isn’t. The CC price is an added fee. It’s not the customary way of doing business with a CC, and everybody knows it.

You can look at it that way though. And I did clarify, after my first post. One could say the CC price is the normal price and the wire price is the discounted price, the Grey seller just chooses not to list it that way.

Again. What is the difference between 1000 cash,add 3% for card or the Grey saying 1030, subtract 3% for wire transfer. All he’s done is tell you the cheapest price up front. But it’s as if you’re claiming there would be no issue, if he stated things as in the latter. I think that’s silly. Nothing changes.


It’s like you guys are treating these as new goods at MSRP, and the greys are selling at MSRP and saying add 3% for card. That’s not the case whatsoever. It’s like the price he’s giving you off the bat is 3% under MSRP, or pay MSRP with your card.



I also disagree with the constant statements regarding ‘notmal’ Business practices. This is 2018, not 2008. There are many, many businesses (b&m and internet alike) who will give discounts if paid via cash, bank transfer or bitcoin. It makes financial sense. They pocket the exact same amount, and they technically undercut competitors if they don’t offer the same deal.

[ItsLows]

Personally, I wouldn't use a credit card to buy a Rolex because you are going to pay interest depending on what card you have. Also, you should just save up the money and buy one you shouldn't have to use a credit card, to begin with.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by ItsLows

Personally, I wouldn't use a credit card to buy a Rolex because you are going to pay interest depending on what card you have. Also, you should just save up the money and buy one you shouldn't have to use a credit card, to begin with.

Yeah, definitely. I guess one can’t make a $10k purchase, grab the points and pay off the amount prior to cycle end, interest free.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by ItsLows

Personally, I wouldn't use a credit card to buy a Rolex because you are going to pay interest depending on what card you have. Also, you should just save up the money and buy one you shouldn't have to use a credit card, to begin with.

You get exactly zero protection paying by wire. Whereas the CC company will refund you and go after the seller if the deal goes south. If you pay off right away, the CC is the smarter move. Provided you don’t get gouged on fees.

The OP has a point. A seller doing millions a year in watch sales could be expected to operate like a normal business.

[ItsLows]

Originally Posted by dmash

Yeah, definitely. I guess one can’t make a $10k purchase, grab the points and pay off the amount prior to cycle end, interest free.

Why are you hurting me?

[Black_5]

How do I feel?

Well that depends on what I’m buying, what I’m getting for my money, and how much it costs relatively speaking.

For example:
If I’m buying a premium/luxury item from a high margin business and paying full RRP, then I will expect all fees (and probably a bit of extra customer service) to be included.

If I’m buying from a high transaction volume, low margin business and getting product at a cheaper/competitive price, I would expect that anything that costs the business more and reduces their margins further is going to cost me more.

As long as the extra charges are reasonable and are not gouging, I don’t have a problem with that.

It’s not reasonable to treat ALL businesses the same way, or to compare all online sellers, (who may have a global presence and have to deal with buyer preferences and legal requirements for compliance from multiple jurisdictions), the same as local “Bricks and Mortar” businesses who typically would engage with a mostly consistent and local catchment with aligned expectations.

Keep in mind that online transactions fees and charges, (in particular for smaller businesses) are often higher than physical stores because of the higher risk of fraud for card not present transactions.

The 1% transaction charge on a single $12,000 transaction from a retailer with margins of 30% (or more) has much less impact on their bottom line than a 3% transaction charge on 2 x $6,000 transactions at 10% (or less) margin.

Ultimately, as a consumer you have a right to spend your money as you see fit and in a way that you are comfortable with.




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[bdex75]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

You get exactly zero protection paying by wire. Whereas the CC company will refund you and go after the seller if the deal goes south. If you pay off right away, the CC is the smarter move. Provided you don’t get gouged on fees.



The OP has a point. A seller doing millions a year in watch sales could be expected to operate like a normal business.

Agree Abdullah. Protection is part of the equation. I think it is clear that there are two different prices that take into account the net cash to the seller. I don’t commonly see the “here is the cash price and add for a credit card purchase” other than at truck stops for diesel fuel. But I am in the Midwest.

I think as long as it is clearly stated what I have to pay for what payment option and I am free to choose I am ok with that.

In this case I would view the CC fee as a form of protection and may choose to use that protection or not depending on the seller I am using.

The reality of the situation is that if a seller has a $10,000 watch to sell and a buyer paying with a CC nets him $9700 and they are not ok with that then they have to do something to hit their net profit margin.




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[c41006]

Originally Posted by City74

I’d tell em 10k and I use my card or its a no go

The point is you’ll always get a better price if you pay cash. If you prefer to use your credit card that’s totally fine but you’ll have to pay for it one way or another.

[ItsLows]

Originally Posted by dmash

Yeah, definitely. I guess one can’t make a $10k purchase, grab the points and pay off the amount prior to cycle end, interest free.

True... I have Amex I didn't think of it that way but you do have a good point.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by ItsLows

True... I have Amex I didn't think of it that way but you do have a good point.

That's not just for charge cards...that's for any credit card Come on man, you utilize credit and don't know this?

but being honest, if you're not aware.......If you had to pay interest on every credit card purchase, you wouldn't have all these advocates who use their CC for everything and rack up points, it would simply be a wash. As long as you pay the bill before close date, you are not hit for interest on those purchases. If you're a responsible spender, you can truly rack up some incredible rewards by putting EVERYthing on your CC

[dmash]

I think the major disconnect some of us are having, is how the Grey is actually calculating his profit margins.

Let's say Apple suggests a $1000 MSRP on its iPhone and apply it to this Grey Seller scenario

I believe, the Grey would say '$970 cash, +3% credit card'. Therefore, he's marketing himself lower than other retailers if paid in cash, but his CC price is the EXACT same as other retailers, who charge the same despite it being CC/cash. Some of you are claiming 'fees on top for CC', but when you look at it this way, how is there any charge being added? You are in no way paying 'extra', it is the exact same price others charge, he's just offering you a cash discount from the beginning.

Now, if the Grey was saying '$1000 cash, +3% credit card', then YES, 100%, that is definitely an upcharge. I personally don't feel this is how they're operating.



How you view the Grey's selling practices, are entirely dependent on which way you believe he's selling. Seeing that this is a reseller, and not a simple business front selling goods at MSRP, it's incredibly hard to say for certain which way it falls. Personally, I believe they're blatantly listing the best price to begin with, or giving you the option for a 'normal price' if paying with CC.

and as an individual who did a fair amount of volume being a 'reseller' throughout my college days, you guys are crazy to think you just 'absorb' that 3% like it's nothing. I always had a set margin I was going for, and that needed to be completely calculated with all fees. If I was selling a watch, my listing would go something like this: '$5000 NET to me'. This alleviated the entire situation you guys speak of, as any buyer would know, that I needed that exact amount, therefore the way he paid influenced his total price. That was obviously not an 'upcharge' to my potential buyers, that was giving them the option to pay how they saw fit.

Again, some of you are forgetting this is a resell business and not a 'get goods at wholesale cost from the manufacturer and sell along with an abundance of other retailers'.

[RHIII]

Honestly I don’t care - it’s all business and about the bottom line.

Net amount to the seller — added ‘fees’ to cover CC few or PayPal fee — I have no problem with - as for a large business or company - overtime these fees can add up to a significant $ amount.

Just my .02


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[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by dmash

I think the major disconnect some of us are having, is how the Grey is actually calculating his profit margins.

Let's say Apple suggests a $1000 MSRP on its iPhone and apply it to this Grey Seller scenario

I believe, the Grey would say '$970 cash, +3% credit card'. Therefore, he's marketing himself lower than other retailers if paid in cash, but his CC price is the EXACT same as other retailers, who charge the same despite it being CC/cash. Some of you are claiming 'fees on top for CC', but when you look at it this way, how is there any charge being added? You are in no way paying 'extra', it is the exact same price others charge, he's just offering you a cash discount from the beginning.

Now, if the Grey was saying '$1000 cash, +3% credit card', then YES, 100%, that is definitely an upcharge. I personally don't feel this is how they're operating.



How you view the Grey's selling practices, are entirely dependent on which way you believe he's selling. Seeing that this is a reseller, and not a simple business front selling goods at MSRP, it's incredibly hard to say for certain which way it falls. Personally, I believe they're blatantly listing the best price to begin with, or giving you the option for a 'normal price' if paying with CC.

and as an individual who did a fair amount of volume being a 'reseller' throughout my college days, you guys are crazy to think you just 'absorb' that 3% like it's nothing. I always had a set margin I was going for, and that needed to be completely calculated with all fees. If I was selling a watch, my listing would go something like this: '$5000 NET to me'. This alleviated the entire situation you guys speak of, as any buyer would know, that I needed that exact amount, therefore the way he paid influenced his total price. That was obviously not an 'upcharge' to my potential buyers, that was giving them the option to pay how they saw fit.

Again, some of you are forgetting this is a resell business and not a 'get goods at wholesale cost from the manufacturer and sell along with an abundance of other retailers'.

I’ve done some business with the grey sellers and never paid their full price. Like any jeweler, they have a good margin built into their price, and have some room to negotiate. IMO, the CC fee is negotiable, just like the price. I have an out the door figure I’m willing to pay. If they aren’t good with that I’m out the door.

There are plenty of watch mongers looking to make a deal. If the fees seem exorbitant, you can spend your money elsewhere.

[City74]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

No you ddn’t. You said the wire price was a discount. It isn’t. The CC price is an added fee. It’s not the customary way of doing business with a CC, and everybody knows it.

I think if a lot of retailer did this there would be a lot more threads like this on various forums

[City74]

Originally Posted by ItsLows

Personally, I wouldn't use a credit card to buy a Rolex because you are going to pay interest depending on what card you have. Also, you should just save up the money and buy one you shouldn't have to use a credit card, to begin with.

I use AMEX for all purchases and pay it off monthly. No interest but lots of rewards

[City74]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

You get exactly zero protection paying by wire. Whereas the CC company will refund you and go after the seller if the deal goes south. If you pay off right away, the CC is the smarter move. Provided you don’t get gouged on fees.

The OP has a point. A seller doing millions a year in watch sales could be expected to operate like a normal business.

Yea paying by wire is something I wouldn’t ever do. I’m really surprised it is so accepted. You have 0 recourse. That makes no sense at all.

Yea a seller selling high end goods and what seems like lots of them as many of these sellers are should operate like any other “normal” business..Same price cash or credit

[City74]

Originally Posted by c41006

The point is you’ll always get a better price if you pay cash. If you prefer to use your credit card that’s totally fine but you’ll have to pay for it one way or another.

That’s only true of the sellers I mentioned who charge extra. Any normal business it’s the same price

[~JJ]

Similar, why do they all use PayPal, I would think larger greys would have a more enterprise level payment processing gateway.

[twitch54]

Originally Posted by dmash

So I ask you both the same thing. You’re really saying, you’d really not have a cheaper option to pay cash/bank transfer?

of course we would, we just don't want to be penalized and pay more when using a CC

[City74]

Originally Posted by ~JJ

Similar, why do they all use PayPal, I would think larger greys would have a more enterprise level payment processing gateway.

I would think that the verified address on Paypal has something to do with it

[City74]

Originally Posted by twitch54

of course we would, we just don't want to be penalized and pay more when using a CC

Yep,exactly

[dddrees]

It’s not a completely an uncommon practice for a number of sites which are non-watch related that I frequent. I attribute the practice to smaller sellers where the fee would affect them more. Some of these same sites actually have other sellers advertising the fact that they have no credit card fees.

[c41006]

Originally Posted by City74

That’s only true of the sellers I mentioned who charge extra. Any normal business it’s the same price

It’s the same thing at ADs. If you go to AD to buy a DD or DJ and you negotiate on the price, they will likely give you better discount by a few points if you pay cash.

[TheVTCGuy]

I don’t see what all the debate is about, it is an added cost to the seller; like a delivery charge. Let’s ASSUME, the bank charges 3% for a CC fee, from my limited experience I think that is about right. It is an added COST to the seller, added on to the price. Let’s say they were selling any product at $ price. If you walked in to the store and purchased it you would pay $ price, but if you wanted it SHIPPED to you, then you would have to pay $ price PLUS THE ADDED COST of shipping. The seller would still get, and IMHO still deserve, the price they have set for their product, the buyer is paying for the extra cost intured in the deal.

Please don’t confuse actual watch shipping in this, I am simply using it as an example of an additional Cost to the seller. Now, the prices are clearly stated prior to the transaction, if the buyer does not agree to the price, or extra cost they would have to cover, that is a completely different topic; but the choice is theirs.