Lesson learned: Tips for you when trying to buy a pre-owned Rolex, Kermit

[FinWatch]

Originally Posted by T4ME

Buy your Rolex watch from AD if you want to be 100% sure that everything is alright. THIS

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[FinWatch]

Originally Posted by Chrispare

Thanks for this vers informative post

Just a point : the original papiers are actally les important than the prof of a service by Rolex IMHO

Your example shows this watch had original papiers and was a frankenwatch

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[FinWatch]

Originally Posted by lamkinpark

Thanks OP for sharing this story. Glad to hear that u get your money back.

Thanks!


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[FinWatch]

Originally Posted by jrs146

Glad you got your money back!


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[FinWatch]

Originally Posted by severeclear

Wow. Great read. Thankyou and sorry for your trouble.


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Thanks!


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[Fleetlord]

It was a bit of a nasty one...

Somebody got a hold of a flat 4 bezel and Maxi dial from ???? and built one.

What's interesting is when is this considered acceptable / unacceptable?

It happens frequently in the vintage sector and nobody seems to fret too much over it...

[FinWatch]

Originally Posted by doctorstrange

on the original paper, the company chau sang sang is a very reputable company in HK. its a listing company on the HK stock market with market cap. of over 10B. they are also a rolex AD and i cant imagine they will sell a fake flat 4 hulk to customers.

They sold original black sub—no harm done at that phase!


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[FinWatch]

Originally Posted by Neek

Since the OP bought it from Italy, sometime between the initial sale from HK and when Paradiso in Italy acquired it, it was modified.

Which is why a recent RSC servicing is better proof of current authenticity than the original papers at first sale. Lots can happen to a watch after the initial sale which was illustrated by this thread.

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[hhtwaijri]

Originally Posted by Neek

The wider hands, Maxi-dial and green aluminum bezel would be correct on a 16610LV. Those are the parts that were placed on this watch to “turn it” into an LV

I always assumed that the 16610LV had similar details (hands, dial, markers etc.) as the 16710, 14060 and so on. Except for the green bezel of course. Good to know.


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[FinWatch]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

It was a bit of a nasty one...

Somebody got a hold of a flat 4 bezel and Maxi dial from ???? and built one.

What's interesting is when is this considered acceptable / unacceptable?

It happens frequently in the vintage sector and nobody seems to fret too much over it...

You are very right:
There is nothing wrong tuning your watch. That’s not the issue.
The problem is that after tuning you are trying to sell yout watch as a completely different model than it was originally. To get some more money.. this is the problem here. You just can’t sell the watch as an original Kermit flat4, if it is originally black sub with parts from another model.
If you decide to sell your tuned watch, in your ad you should clearly sell the watch as a tuned watch.
Very simple and common business:
Don’t lie about your product that you are selling.

[Neek]

Originally Posted by hhtwaijri

I always assumed that the 16610LV had similar details (hands, dial, markers etc.) as the 16710, 14060 and so on. Except for the green bezel of course. Good to know.


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Yup the 16610LV was actually the first time the (new at the time) Maxi dial was used in a Sub

[jaySL350]

Thanks for sharing
Glad it worked ok for you as it could have ended much worse,,


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[Nikrnic]

Glad that nightmare worked out for you, Good thing you had it checked out immediately. Are you going to find another one or something else ?

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[FinWatch]

Originally Posted by jaySL350

Thanks for sharing
Glad it worked ok for you as it could have ended much worse,,


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Yep, thanks! All the best!


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[FinWatch]

Originally Posted by Nikrnic

Glad that nightmare worked out for you, Good thing you had it checked out immediately. Are you going to find another one or something else ?

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Thanks! Always searching for something, but at the moment: nothing to replace Franken-Sub.



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[CLG23]

Originally Posted by FinWatch

You are very right:
There is nothing wrong tuning your watch. That’s not the issue.
The problem is that after tuning you are trying to sell yout watch as a completely different model than it was originally. To get some more money.. this is the problem here. You just can’t sell the watch as an original Kermit flat4, if it is originally black sub with parts from another model.
If you decide to sell your tuned watch, in your ad you should clearly sell the watch as a tuned watch.
Very simple and common business:
Don’t lie about your product that you are selling.

Exactly

[misterpeanut]

Thanks for the helpful thread. I disagree about your comment regarding the service, however, and your complaint that the company took a week to return your money.

If a business took every customer's story at face value every time, they would not be in business for long. It is perfectly reasonable for them to engage in the same level of investigation as you, if not more (to ensure the customer is not trying to scam), and to me one week is a perfectly reasonable time frame to accomplish this. I do understand that from your perspective, this would be incredibly unnerving.

[hhtwaijri]

Originally Posted by Neek

Yup the 16610LV was actually the first time the (new at the time) Maxi dial was used in a Sub

That is interesting information!.. Weird thing is, this is the watch that got me into watches 15 years ago. And because the Speedmaster was more affordable to me back then (used all my savings), I sort of stopped pursuing it. Had I known...


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[Johny]

Originally Posted by rominvicta

Hey Adam,
Just for sake of info these countries you mention do not differ from rest of the world. I bought many things(not only watches) from Italy and got never in a tight situation. Just buy the seller! It does not matter where he originates from. I was many times in Romania, once in Albania and over a 100 times in Italy. People there are much nicer than in many places in Western part of Europe. Strangerwise I mean.
So, please do not make such like statements when you are not aware at all how these countries look like and what kind of people live there!
Respect all people around the world!

Well said.

[FinWatch]

Originally Posted by CLG23

Exactly

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[77T]

And now many new members understand why Rolex tries their best to control distribution of their parts. The maxi dial and green insert required a parts account holding watchmaker to return the damaged parts.

Also this is why a dial swap requires return of original dial for any model to control the Dr. Frankenstein‘s out there.

It helps protect the brand value of limited pieces like the anniversary models.

Of note in this thread, the original papers would have been printed as 16610V had it been a true 50th.

Even the later papers (after punched went out of circulation) would note the difference. Here are some examples - credit to Takuya’s listings for the last 3 images below.




Note the “A” after the reference 16610. If you saw a maxi with green insert and those papers, run away.
.
.




Note the “V” in the same position for this true one. Now you’d still need to inspect papers since they are easily faked.
.
.

And even the new current cards continue that convention...






And of course the newer cards also note the Hulk version of LV.




Since all papers and cards can be faked easier than a watch, RSC verification is the Gold Standard for any special models where a few parts can be switched to look original.

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[FinWatch]

Originally Posted by 77T

And now many new members understand why Rolex tries their best to control distribution of their parts. The maxi dial and green insert required a parts account holding watchmaker to return the damaged parts.

Also this is why a dial swap requires return of original dial for any model to control the Dr. Frankenstein‘s out there.

It helps protect the brand value of limited pieces like the anniversary models.

Of note in this thread, the original papers would have been printed as 16610V had it been a true 50th.

Even the later papers (after punched went out of circulation) would note the difference. Here are some examples - credit to Takuya’s listings for the last 3 images below.




Note the “A” after the reference 16610. If you saw a maxi with green insert and those papers, run away.
.
.




Note the “V” in the same position for this true one. Now you’d still need to inspect papers since they are easily faked.
.
.

And even the new current cards continue that convention...






And of course the newer cards also note the Hulk version of LV.




Since all papers and cards can be faked easier than a watch, RSC verification is the Gold Standard for any special models where a few parts can be switched to look original.

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Thanks, important information!


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[Chiboy]

Great writeup and thanks for taking the time. I wish I had known you were going to do a summary back when I waded through the original eight page thread to see what was going to happen!

Really glad it worked out.

[FinWatch]

Originally Posted by Chiboy

Great writeup and thanks for taking the time. I wish I had known you were going to do a summary back when I waded through the original eight page thread to see what was going to happen!



Really glad it worked out.

Thanks!


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[siempreko]

Crazy Story! Sorry that hear about this awful experience. From what you have shared Paridiso Luxury is a STAND UP dealer! I am very impressed with the level of service they provided! They truly stood by their product!

Very impressive in today’s world!


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[Rolex addict]

I bought mine Pre-Owned from an AD. Before taking it out of the store, I had it sent to RSC for a service and verification. The watch was a safe queen and didn’t need a polish, but I still specifically requested NO POLISH. I’ve thought about selling it, but there is no way I’m letting it go now. That thing is sweet and all the edges are super sharp. Good luck in your hunt. Hopefully, this experience doesn’t deter you from buying such a cool watch.

[schoolboy]

Crazy story.

Thanks for sharing with us.

[Beckster]

Thanks for taking the time to share your experience with us. Lots of learning points. Glad the lesson only cost you €120 in the end. Though I’m sure the anxiety caused must have cost a lot more! Happy ending finally so good for you.

[79280_116520]

And now for the "million dollar question".... which other grey dealers have done this?

[uniqueMR]

Thanks for sharing. Nice info for everyone...