Where we draw a line

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by shaunylw

Yep, that pretty much sums up a flipper. In the long, unless you are a grey dealer, you might make a few grand. Maybe you get really lucky and get two hard to find watches and make 8-10k? But, don’t ever fall for one of the ones you let go. The second trip to the AD to buy the same watch they know you sold for maximum profit, likely is not happening.

Buying and selling the same day is gross IMO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why not? grey dealers like Davidsw and Takuya do it all the time and don't get penalized. Can you please elaborate on what the difference is between me and Davidsw? Is his money cleaner than mine?

[shaunylw]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

Why not? grey dealers like Davidsw and Takuya do it all the time and don't get penalized. Can you please elaborate on what the difference is between me and Davidsw? Is his money cleaner than mine?

Well, as i wrote, Davidsw is a grey dealer. Unless you are a grey dealer you will make a couple grand and then it’s over. You won’t be penalized here but you will run out of AD’s willing to sell you product. DavidSW clearly has a supply source. If you found an AD that’s willing to continuously supply you, flip away. I don’t see it happening however.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mephist]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

I would have zero regrets or hesitation in buying a hard to get watch and flipping it the same exact day for maximum profit. It's my watch and I do whatever i want with it, without having to put a label of "flipper". All grey dealers are flippers.

[zengineer]

A flipper is the guy who is better than you at getting a hard to come by watch. I suppose I'd feel differently if I had a strong desire to own some of the newer stainless releases, but since I don't it's pure entertainment for me to read all the "mommy, mommy... Jimmy took the watch I wanted" threads. I haven't seen adults act this childish since the Beanie Babies craze.

"Never complain, never explain". Its not a maxim to live by but it applies pretty well to this "issue".

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by FTX I

Between a flipper and someone who's just moving his Rolex collection?

intent, if its been worn, time frame... six months is my benchmark. Ive purposely waited to reach that timeframe before, even when i was sure at 4 months i wanted to move it. If nothing else, the optics are better.

in addition if you move a hot watch, never ever buy it again. that looks bad. A. it appears you didn't hold it long enough to be sure in the first place so what was the motive? profit? and B. If you already got rid of it once it looks really bad to get rid of it twice and if you didn't like it the first time i doubt anything will be different the second.

ultimately its a small community and some people do care about how things are viewed by others. Some people dont care and thats fine too, but people generally dont do those guys favors either or help them out very much.

[idontlike_bandwagons]

A flipper is when someone praises a watch in his presentation thread, calls it keeper and then sell it. If he repeats this procedere he is definitely a flipper.

If I would get a “hot watch” and I don’t like it as soon as I see it live, I would let it with the AD. If I’m not sure about the watch as soon as I see it live and don’t like it a few weeks after, I would sell it for the price I bought it.

I don’t need that extra money and besides that in my country I would have to pay income tax. So too much paperwork for a few extra bucks.

[1William]

I see why there is a distinction between a collector and flipper but it is a very fine line. I believe a lot of it has to do with intent when the watch is purchased and how you represent it should you choose to post. If your intent is to push interest in the watch on the Forum and then already know you are going to sell then I think that is not good. I also believe that your property is your property and you may do with it a you please. I have had this discussion with my AD and for certain hot watches they are very proprietary. Mostly PP and Rolex and they are concerned with flippers though you would never be able to walk in and get a hot watch from them without a prior relationship. I think that in the end it is about honesty and intent and while I recognize how our feelings on watches change, I don't think that is what we are discussing.

[FTX I]

Interesting responses on this thread. I remember five years ago when sports Rolex were abundant and flippers were just indecisive people or guys having fun trying many different watches, but since those watches became scarce the fun was gone and the term got a different connotation.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by FTX I

Interesting responses on this thread. I remember five years ago when sports Rolex were abundant and flippers were just indecisive people or guys having fun trying many different watches, but since those watches became scarce the fun was gone and the term got a different connotation.

people ranting about allocations and AD's were less too... even two years ago. So it goes hand in hand. People are upset, so you have to tread more lightly

[FTX I]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

people ranting about allocations and AD's were less too... even two years ago. So it goes hand in hand. People are upset, so you have to tread more lightly

Agree

[AK797]

Yes, Flavio, the interesting thing is the meaning of Flipper has totally changed. Before flippers, like Seth, were flipping for losses and so we used to feel a bit sorry for them and their endless chopping and changing, esp the one or two watch brigade, but now it means a profit speculator or commodity trader.

I think intent is the key here in defining a flipper for profit. There is a also a semi-flipper too now of someone who, in the past, was really on the fence about a watch and so wouldn't pull the trigger but now as it can be sold for an easy profit they will now buy the watch and see if it takes. Those I would class as a WIS flipper as opposed to out and out Profit flipper.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by AK797

Yes, Flavio, the interesting thing is the meaning of Flipper has totally changed. Before flippers, like Seth, were flipping for losses and so we used to feel a bit sorry for them and their endless chopping and changing, esp the one or two watch brigade, but now it means a profit speculator or commodity trader.

I think intent is the key here in defining a flipper for profit. There is a also a semi-flipper too now of someone who, in the past, was really on the fence about a watch and so wouldn't pull the trigger but now as it can be sold for an easy profit they will now buy the watch and see if it takes. Those I would class as a WIS flipper as opposed to out and out Profit flipper.

Exactly. It used to just be so easy.

Lost a small fortune trying to find the one that would stick. I had a good time, but that’s over now. The loss of money doesn’t bother me so much. It’s a hobby. Hobbies cost money.

Like Flavio says though, the definition has changed. Or evolved, imho, into something different.

I’m ultimately thrilled. I’ve found more fun in enjoying what I have rather than moving them along. And I’m a lot more discerning in what I’ll buy.

But for sure, times have changed.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by superdog

Exactly. It used to just be so easy.

Lost a small fortune trying to find the one that would stick. I had a good time, but that’s over now. The loss of money doesn’t bother me so much. It’s a hobby. Hobbies cost money.

Like Flavio says though, the definition has changed. Or evolved, imho, into something different.

I’m ultimately thrilled. I’ve found more fun in enjoying what I have rather than moving them along. And I’m a lot more discerning in what I’ll buy.

But for sure, times have changed.

Just to be clear Seth, I never felt sorry for you, quite the opposite as you know, but I did feel sorry for your wallet.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by AK797

Just to be clear Seth, I never felt sorry for you, quite the opposite as you know, but I did feel sorry for your wallet.

And I get it. Trust me. My wallet and I have a love/hate relationship.

But in all seriousness, this market change has been good for me. I actually quite like it. For a multitude of reasons.

[FTX I]

Originally Posted by AK797

Yes, Flavio, the interesting thing is the meaning of Flipper has totally changed. Before flippers, like Seth, were flipping for losses and so we used to feel a bit sorry for them and their endless chopping and changing, esp the one or two watch brigade, but now it means a profit speculator or commodity trader.

I think intent is the key here in defining a flipper for profit. There is a also a semi-flipper too now of someone who, in the past, was really on the fence about a watch and so wouldn't pull the trigger but now as it can be sold for an easy profit they will now buy the watch and see if it takes. Those I would class as a WIS flipper as opposed to out and out Profit flipper.

Spot on Neil. And our buddy Seth was the first that came to my mind as well.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by FTX I

Spot on Neil. And our buddy Seth was the first that came to my mind as well.

There was definitely a time not all that long ago where I was widely known with the dubious honor of biggest flipper here.

Oh how the times have changed.

[FTX I]

Originally Posted by superdog

There was definitely a time not all that long ago where I was widely known with the dubious honor of biggest flipper here.

Oh how the times have changed.

There's a good side in every crisis. Your love for Omega grew a lot over last years and I respect that.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by FTX I

There's a good side in every crisis. Your love for Omega grew a lot over last years and I respect that.

Well, I have to admit, I’ve always loved Omega.

But I did jump on the Rolex train at one point. Great watches, for sure, but I definitely bought into the marketing too. Oddly enough, that’s now the part I don’t like. But I do still love the watches.

[|404|]

In my opinion it is always intent based.
Much like the law sees crime... if you buy it to intend to sell it, then you are a flipper.

Eg. I bought a watch and within the first few hours, I knew it wasn't for me. Bracelet didn't fit right, couldn't alter it to gain a fit. Didn't want another strap option... I sold it the next day.

Does that make me a flipper? I don't think so. Because I thought I loved the watch... but ordering online this is part of the problem. It's not till you get the watch in the flesh and actually "bond" with it that you know for certain/for sure.

Did I make more than retail on it? No, I actually sold it for what I paid for it. I could of made a small profit, but this hobby of mine would not become enjoyable if I started mixing business and pleasure. I'm a banker or more precisely a Chartered Wealth Manager... so I have to fight my urges to make a profit. But I have to have a separation between business and pleasure.

But it's always intent. I don't think you can judge someone on "flipping" a watch unless you know their motivation for the purchase. If their intent is making a profit then yeah they are a flipper.

However at the end of the day, they are just playing the market. I know its easy for us to dislike them as we feel like they are gouging the market and pushing the prices. But in reality they are doing nothing wrong.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.