Brand new SubC date has soared over 10k at Grays.

[Tampashooter]

The funny thing about reading these threads, blaming the grays, is that most here have no idea just how much it costs the grays to obtain these watches.

The margin isn't what you think, I assure you.

[Nikrnic]

It's also funny (not) if you bought an SS from your AD last year they thanked you. This year you give them 8-9-10k for a watch and you thank them for taking your money.

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[The Libertine]

Glad I’m not currently in the market for a new/previously owned Rolex.

[TimingIsEverything]

$10K is absolutely ridiculous for a SS sub. If people would stop shelling out for these overpriced watches, the prices will come down eventually.

[Old Geezer]

If money is not a concern and you don’t mind being gouged greys are happy to take your money. A new term “market pricing”, which I’ve seen used in the automobile market too to pit whatever markup someone wants on a in demand item. It doesn’t sound as negative as I’m gouging you because I have something you want.
I would never pay the premium from a grey or buy from them to save a couple hundred bucks. I not commenting on their service, integrity, etc which I think there are many that are stellar but I don’t like the business model and won’t give them my money.

[outtatime]

Originally Posted by Tampashooter

The funny thing about reading these threads, blaming the grays, is that most here have no idea just how much it costs the grays to obtain these watches.

The margin isn't what you think, I assure you.

They’re not buying them privately. They’re sourcing from AD’s. You think they’re really paying ABOVE MSRP for one? Not likely.

This is just now the same as any other collectible market. Scalpers and dealers own the game because they have connections and resources. “Normies” have to either wait an incredibly long time or get “lucky” stopping into AD’s.

Tightening supply = more demand = higher secondary prices = dealers snapping up what’s available = less to go around.

If Rolex REALLY cared about this they would just sell directly online. Then everybody has the same chance.

[s.m.b.]

People should just pay what they’re comfortable paying. Personally, I wait for my ADs to get the watches I want at MSRP, but there’s nothing wrong with others charging/paying more.

[Raku]

Originally Posted by Tampashooter

The funny thing about reading these threads, blaming the grays, is that most here have no idea just how much it costs the grays to obtain these watches.

The margin isn't what you think, I assure you.

The real funny thing is that it only took two pages of replies for one grey dealer to come and defend his brothers.

[Mystro]

The SubC use to be easily obtainable but it is also one of Rolex’s most popular watches so the average buyer still wants to buy one but now can’t. This only would reflect its true market value. New hot models only get pushed up the price ladder even more extreme.

[ALF61]

What is happenning right now I think is the lack of supply approaching Christmas. My AD just got a shipment in and almost got nothing. He did not get a SubC, told me he got in 65% DJ and 35% proffessional sports. Was told not to expect anything else until last year.

Remember now AD´s know ahead of time what they will get and when. This is great for them but the certainty also warns grays of future supply deficits and goods are price adjusted accordingly.

I definitely expect gray´s prices to stiffen the next three months or so.

[R!$]

all hype

[ALF61]

Originally Posted by Tampashooter

The funny thing about reading these threads, blaming the grays, is that most here have no idea just how much it costs the grays to obtain these watches.

The margin isn't what you think, I assure you.

Ha!! no offense to you but try selling one of these watches to a gray. The difference between what they offer and what they ask for is at least 20%, and on some watches even more. How much do you think they would offer you for a BNIB BLRO for example ? selling at about 19K.

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by ALF61

Ha!! no offense to you but try selling one of these watches to a gray. The difference between what they offer and what they ask for is at least 20%, and on some watches even more. How much do you think they would offer you for a BNIB BLRO for example ? selling at about 19K.

Certainly watches are not a practical investment.
Condition is everything. I reciently traded a LVc and a SD43 full box sets to our trusted sellers. I got very good trade in and above msrp on both. In my world, if I break close to even in a trade deal as to what I have in the watch then I am more than happy. I actually made a decent profit on the LVc but that is a anomaly. It’s all about buying right even if that is over msrp as to what rate that particular watch is appreciating and in demand. We laughed years back at paying $3k above msrp with the ceramic SS Daytona and now that price would have them lining up in minutes.
Full PM is the worst trade in vs it’s msrp. I am curious what the trade in value is for a black ceramic Daytona as they are selling a preowned full box set for $18k-ish. The Daytona is in its own league in setting the real world street price but what would a trusted seller really give you for a preowned one as it’s sooo over inflated above it’s msrp.

[Yobber76]

It seems the SubC date and the BLNR are reasonably available with a reasonable waiting period, at least in the US. It's possible grays are raising prices for the Christmas must haves.

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by Yobber76

It seems the SubC date and the BLNR are reasonably available with a reasonable waiting period, at least in the US. It's possible grays are raising prices for the Christmas must haves.

I noticed the grays got alot of BLNR's last week both new and used.

[The Libertine]

Originally Posted by ALF61

Ha!! no offense to you but try selling one of these watches to a gray. The difference between what they offer and what they ask for is at least 20%, and on some watches even more. How much do you think they would offer you for a BNIB BLRO for example ? selling at about 19K.

Truth.

[jonnyz1245]

Originally Posted by outtatime

They’re not buying them privately. They’re sourcing from AD’s. You think they’re really paying ABOVE MSRP for one? Not likely.

This is just now the same as any other collectible market. Scalpers and dealers own the game because they have connections and resources. “Normies” have to either wait an incredibly long time or get “lucky” stopping into AD’s.

Tightening supply = more demand = higher secondary prices = dealers snapping up what’s available = less to go around.

If Rolex REALLY cared about this they would just sell directly online. Then everybody has the same chance.

Wrong. They are buying them privately. They buy them anyway they can as long as there is margin to be made. Remember that these are businesses and as such need to keep turning inventory. I know for a fact that some will buy and sell for a $300-500-700 margin. Imagine doing that 10-20 times a month as part of your overall business plan?

[Sebastian5]

Originally Posted by outtatime

They’re not buying them privately. They’re sourcing from AD’s. You think they’re really paying ABOVE MSRP for one? Not likely.

Why would an AD sell them at MSRP to greys while they can easily sell them at MSRP to their own customers? What's the benefit for the AD in that case?

Unless the AD's bundle them with some hard to move pieces "to sweeten the deal"

[Rolex addict]

Originally Posted by outtatime

They’re not buying them privately. They’re sourcing from AD’s. You think they’re really paying ABOVE MSRP for one? Not likely.

This is just now the same as any other collectible market. Scalpers and dealers own the game because they have connections and resources. “Normies” have to either wait an incredibly long time or get “lucky” stopping into AD’s.

Tightening supply = more demand = higher secondary prices = dealers snapping up what’s available = less to go around.

If Rolex REALLY cared about this they would just sell directly online. Then everybody has the same chance.

Several months ago, I heard a "Grey" say that he would pay $19K for the first SS BLRO. Straight from the horse's mouth.

[jonnyz1245]

Originally Posted by Rolex addict

Several months ago, I heard a "Grey" say that he would pay $19K for the first SS BLRO. Straight from the horse's mouth.

I did too because I was with you when he said it I think he ended up paying 19-20

[jonnyz1245]

Originally Posted by ALF61

Ha!! no offense to you but try selling one of these watches to a gray. The difference between what they offer and what they ask for is at least 20%, and on some watches even more. How much do you think they would offer you for a BNIB BLRO for example ? selling at about 19K.

Yes but they are businesses and they have to make a margin right? That 20% spread probably winds up being 10ish and in many cases less after you factor in time, cost of capital, free shipping , people negotiating their list price down etc. Then they have overhead, taxes, supply etc. As far as what they offer, they are going to try and get the best deal for themselves. They negotiate .

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by peterpl

They wont sell for that price.

Just like when you sell a car - list as high as you think it "may" sell for to someone desperate to buy (or stupid enough).

I understand it's an asking price, but it still has gone up. If the list price represents what the seller thinks the watch "may" sell for, what's the reason he thinks it may sell for $280 more this week than it what it may have sold for last week? (If I recall, DavidSW was listing a fully-stickered, full-set, BNIB 116610LN for $9895 just within the last few weeks.) And we're not just talking any old $280. We're talking the difference between a four-figure listing price and a five-figure listing price. That can have a significant psychological impact on whether someone is willing to haggle in the first place. Even listing at $9995 (current Jomashop list) looks less intimidating than $10,175. Presumably, David had a reason for thinking this was the time to break the $10k listing barrier.

[ExPADIdiver]

Stupid

[HRT]

Funny how people on here hate gray dealers yet love Davidsw. I’ve never seen such a fan boy approach to someone who does exactly what everyone apparently loathes (selling new and used watches at premiums)

[JJK]

He knows the market. End of story.
Did you see the 5 digit polar explorer 2 for damn near 8k ?!

Crazy times

[JJK]

Originally Posted by JJK

He knows the market. End of story.
Did you see the 5 digit polar explorer 2 for damn near 8k ?!

Crazy times

And somebody bought it cause it’s gone in one day
Did I just quote my own post :)

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by JJK

He knows the market. End of story.
Did you see the 5 digit polar explorer 2 for damn near 8k ?!

Crazy times

A TS is listing a BNIB, stickered 16610 for $12.5k. Those were selling for less than half that when they were discontinued eight years ago. Crazy times indeed. That said, it's been sitting there for a while; so far, no one is quite that crazy.

I remember when the SS Sub C Date was announced, it had an expected retail of $7250. By the time it actually hit the shops in the fall, it was up to $7350, and in just a couple years had capped out at $8550, which seemed like a scandalous increase in such a short time. It's ironic to think that now that seems like a discount.

[mikkolopez]

Patience is key.


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[JLM3]

Times are changing ...we liked it when we could get them from grays for less then retail and ADs where out of luck but no we are the ones out of luck...

[fania123]

Such a joke I'd never pay these flippers over retail for anything!