The case for buying above MSRP

[ROLMARINER]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Not sure what part of my post implied you were dumb or justifying ...

I’m simply saying if you prefer to buy gray vs AD and pay the price, to each their own

Not you brandrea, others who were implying that.

I agree completely with you- if one is passionate about Rolex it shouldn't matter if someone got a deal at 20% off or someone paid a 20% premium. It's all about the wrist and the watch and our appreciation of this outstanding brand.

[123Blueface]

Originally Posted by ROLMARINER

It seems its easy to be one of the lucky ones who gets to pay MSRP for a BLRO, perhaps you should take the time to be more accepting of those of us without that good fortune. I'd guess that 70% of the BLRO's and 500C's are being bought via the grey market and there are a lot of us here.

The BLRO was the one and only watch I wanted, and no other Rolex or other brand was going to be satisfactory. I never liked the old aluminum Pepsi and the ceramic's dynamic and professional red and blue struck a chord and I had to have it even if it meant overpaying. Some would call that being a 'passionate enthusiast' which is exactly what I am.

The cliche of "justification" doesn't apply to people who have the $2K to $8K it takes to buy their way out of the AD favoritism game. To many of us it's not a number that moves the needle. It's not like I dropped $2.5M on a house in a bad neighborhood or invested $3.5M in a weak stock. It's $2K to $8K.

Honestly, I am happy for you.
I wouldn’t want anyone telling me what to do with my money.
I am just a firm believer that buying from grey at ridiculous prices because it’s the only way just serves to perpetuate the problem. There are other choices/routes and in reality, you won’t die because you don’t get that watch.
What counts is if you are happy, enjoy the watch in good health.

[The Argonaut]

Originally Posted by Sal_UKSheffield

Daytonas have always gone for a premium

Everything else is just a temporary phase imo

Only time will tell. If you have a boat load of cash you are more likely to pay over rrp

Interesting. That certainly seems to be the case with the Skydwellers, the blue dial version.


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[brandrea]

Originally Posted by ROLMARINER

Not you brandrea, others who were implying that.

I agree completely with you- if one is passionate about Rolex it shouldn't matter if someone got a deal at 20% off or someone paid a 20% premium. It's all about the wrist and the watch and our appreciation of this outstanding brand.

agreed.

[ROLMARINER]

Originally Posted by 123Blueface

Honestly, I am happy for you.
I wouldn’t want anyone telling me what to do with my money.

Much appreciated, thank you.

Originally Posted by 123Blueface

I am just a firm believer that buying from grey at ridiculous prices because it’s the only way just serves to perpetuate the problem.

My opinion, the problem is that Rolex is suddenly making ridiculously good design decisions. I literally had dreams about the Daytona Ceramic. I'd wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat just imagining it on my wrist. The BLRO, same thing, that red and blue, that jubilee bracelet, it's outrageous what Rolex is doing. Have you seen the new Datejust or Sky Dweller? Even the Tudor line is incredible.

Passionate Enthusiasts are causing high demand, Whales are still getting desirable references at MSRP, Grey Dealers are agnostic and satisfy those without connections, AD's are realizing that they can offset high rents and payroll by moving a few references out the back door, Rolex is seeing their brand elevate, and all Rolex owners are seeing their collections rise in value.

No one is getting hurt here. So what's the problem?

Originally Posted by 123Blueface

There are other choices/routes and in reality, you won’t die because you don’t get that watch.
What counts is if you are happy, enjoy the watch in good health.

Thank you! Very happy! Enjoy yours as well.

[ROLEXster]

Is overpaying MSRP bad ?
OR force to buy PM DDs / PM Daytonas at MSRP to get on a phantom list.

[superpop]

People with money they have acquired on their own typically do not pay MSRP or over for anything. Anything. Especially not a mass produced object. And more importantly a fashion item. Face it, that's what a watch is, like a pair of designer jeans. I will wait patiently and enjoy the watches I do have and then in a year or two when the market has changed, I will go into an AD and get what I want at a discount. Or I wont, but something tells me that the bubble is about to pop here. I am old enough to remember several economic cycles and luxury items always get slammed the hardest in a downturn.

[Chadridv]

Originally Posted by pinkelle21

If you buy above msrp you have more money than smarts

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Oh man, I never considered myself to have lots of money, and now I realize I’m not very smart either. Thanks for that lol.

However, I enjoyed years and years of buying watches at 15-30% off. I still do in some cases. But when it came down to buying hard to get pieces, even the premium I paid for my SS Daytona, was still less money than paying the full price difference on just one discounted watch of the dozens I’ve bought in the past.

Now, I’ve never been one to equate intelligence with the amount of money you have, but since you’ve brought it up; if listed all the watches I’ve bought and how much I’ve spent, I guarantee it’s significantly less money than the same list of watches purchased from AD only lifelong MSRP’ers.

So while you can say someone is stupid for spending more than MSRP on a watch, I think you’ll need some other reasons to justify the statement aside from spending money or having excessive amounts of it.

[ROLEXster]

Originally Posted by superpop

People with money they have acquired on their own typically do not pay MSRP or over for anything. Anything.

So if AD offers you a 500C / BLRO for $1 over MSRP ...
You will not buy it base on principle ?

[GradyPhilpott]

Originally Posted by ROLMARINER

That’s funny, I find that people with money have it because they are very smart. And people with money tend have a discretionary reserve of no less than around $50K just for things like vacations, theater tickets, sporting events, jewelry, dining, clothing, and other recreations where ROI isn’t a consideration or a concern.

The difference between MSRP + tax and current grey pricing on a BLRO or a 500C is about $8K, and on a SS sport model like a Submariner we are talking $3K. That’s what all the angst is about here. And if that’s a hardship for anyone I’d argue that they shouldn’t even be considering a luxury watch purchase until they have the financial stability to do so. It’s the people stretching every last dollar to get into a brand they can’t actually afford that are lacking smarts, not the ones with enough wealth to be indifferent about spending a premium.

Well, I can tell you that I don't have anywhere near that kind of cash and I paid MSRP for my four BNIB Rolex and my three BNIB Tudor watches, except for the BB36, which I got at a going-out-of-business sale.

In those days people on this board claimed I was crazy for paying MSRP.

When I started in on Rolex and other pricey brands, I set limits on what I would be willing to spend and I've stayed within those limits and have a nice little collection

So, don't tell me I shouldn't be in this game because I'm not wealthy and don't have $50,000 discretionary reserve or because I refuse to pay ridiculous premiums.

Of course, people are free to spend as they wish. I just don't think that it's wise pay these current premiums and I stand by that.

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[Jason71]

Originally Posted by Wahlberg

Looking at your post history, all you do is discuss the price you paid for your GMT and hoping people will agree with you. Why do you need this kind of validation? I've stumbled upon more people doing this. They got the money to buy whatever they want but are still concerned about the price or pricing strategy.

And there are plenty of dumb people with money.

Originally Posted by ROLMARINER

Like many others I post on this topic because I find it very interesting. So many threads and people with different points of view, it’s fascinating.

We are not seeking any validation either. I’m extremely comfortable with the decisions I made. What I am doing is pointing out the other side of the argument; that we’re really not talking about a lot of “extra“ money here. For the privilege of being treated well by a dealer and not waiting a year or more for a desirable Rolex, $2K on most references and $8K on the absolute hottest references is all we’re talking about here.



And this is another reason why those of us who shop grey respond in threads like this. It’s not nice to be called stupid.

Totally seeking validation. You should have seen when he bought a new red, sliver, and blue bracelet to wear with his ceramic BLRO and others scoffed at it on another forum. One of the funniest things I’ve seen. Definition of attention seeker.

[pinkelle21]

It was more of a joke, don't read into too much. I typically don't like to pay a premium on an already expensive item, so that it doesnt reinforce this crazy behavior of AD's or grey's jacking up prices for people that have to have it now. Just for the record I don't think you personally are stupid, it's your money

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[904VT]

Originally Posted by askdanny

Obviously, the ideal Rolex steel-sports purchase is at a duty-free Rolex AD -- at the airport for example. But legally you should be declaring the purchase as you go through customs in your country anyway. (And the odds that the watch is available as you make your way through the airport are slim.)

So realistically, you buy at a local AD where you'll pay full price plus sales tax. In many big cities like Chicago, New York, or Los Angeles, you'll pay close to 10% in sales tax. In many countries in Europe, we're talking 20%. On a Hulk, Daytona, or Pepsi this is big money.

There is no telling when the watch will be available at your AD, and what the sales tax or MSRP will be at when the watch is available, as waiting lists are not made public. The only thing you know is that there will be no discount. With time, MSRP and sales tax are likely to go up, not down. Sales taxes are less unpopular than property taxes because it is a consumer tax. Americans are often cash-poor but land-rich. So sales taxes are more likely to be approved or voted on to bolster state coffers. Rolex MSRP can only go up, as I believe Rolex steel-sports models are currently underpriced; I believe the new movements will be the justification for the price increase.

Online grey dealers are not currently under the obligation to charge sales tax. This might soon change as Internet sales taxes are falling under more scrutiny because brick-and-mortars complain they can't compete. I predict online sellers in all industries will be made responsible for charging sales tax at checkout. Currently online grey dealers will offer no sales tax and free overnight shipping. (I'm not a grey dealer, just a Rolex lover.)

If Rolex shortage is mostly due to increased demand, and more people than ever in the history of the world have the financial wherewithal to buy into such an aspirational brand -- whose reputation constantly ranks first -- the shortage might get worse, not better. I heard Rolex is increasing output, but I don't think we've seen the peak demand yet -- and demand will continue to outpace supply.

Do you want to wait one or two more years for that hard-to-get Rolex and roll the dice to save $500, $1000 or even $2000 depending on the model? MSRP and sales tax are both such unknown variables that paying "grey prices" now can make sense. Plus, in two years, who knows what the market value will be. The Daytona didn't jump straight from $12,000 to $22,000. But it has relentlessly gone up and is standing at $22,000 now.

So go buy that Hulk or BLNR and enjoy them now!

I would say new movements would've been a good excuse to increase prices, but that boat has sailed. The 126660, ~same. The 126710BLRO, ~same. 126600, cyclops driven price increase.

Regardless the SS watches have room to move up in MSRP imo

[dubins930]

Mass produced stainless steel sport watch isn’t a value at msrp... let alone double the price... we’ve already seen BLRO prices come down... no one can say if the price will level out or eventually drop as they become more available when Rolex catches up with demand.
Some of the posts on this thread are painful to read

[Justinmg]

Originally Posted by dubins930

Mass produced stainless steel sport watch isn’t a value at msrp... let alone double the price... we’ve already seen BLRO prices come down... no one can say if the price will level out or eventually drop as they become more available when Rolex catches up with demand.
Some of the posts on this thread are painful to read

This

[askdanny]

Originally Posted by dubins930

Mass produced stainless steel sport watch isn’t a value at msrp... let alone double the price... we’ve already seen BLRO prices come down... no one can say if the price will level out or eventually drop as they become more available when Rolex catches up with demand.

Some of the posts on this thread are painful to read

The price of the BLRO came down because it started at more than double MSRP for a watch that was released just months ago. To say “we’ve already seen BLRO prices come down” is true but misleading. The premium on that watch is still higher currently than the premium paid for a BLNR or Hulk.


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[123Blueface]

Originally Posted by askdanny

The price of the BLRO came down because it started at more than double MSRP for a watch that was released just months ago. To say “we’ve already seen BLRO prices come down” is true but misleading. The premium on that watch is still higher currently than the premium paid for a BLNR or Hulk.


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.....and what’s truly sad is that although I love mine and am glad I have it, it truly doesn’t hold any different place in my heart or rotation than any of my other watches. If I didn’t have it, my life would be the same.
It’s just that, a watch.
Didn’t change my life in the slightest bit to own it. In fact, I am poorer as result and my financial advisor was pissed as can’t understand when enough watches is enough.
So I can say I have it, big deal. Won’t put food on my table.

My point, we as WIS have got to recognize the aforementioned and stop feeding the frenzy.

[Muxi]

I think both sides raise compelling points. It’s probably why society developed specializations. We are good at one or a few things. That is where we earn our livelihood. In turn, some people have the time and inclination to deal with AD games, whether by status or bundle purchases. In the end, we all get what we want. Is it ideal? Maybe, maybe not. Does it allow some people to indulge in a hobby then revert to his regular daily grind? For me, it does.

[dwjez14]

How long has the mark up been going on for the BLNR and the LVC? Has it been this year or the last few years . I know the Daytona’s have been like this forever.

[mistercoach32]

Originally Posted by 123Blueface

Ha!
This for me is like justifying why ghonerrhea is good for you.

Ahhhhhhhh. Ok.

[123Blueface]

Originally Posted by mistercoach32

Ahhhhhhhh. Ok.

It’s called sarcasm.
Don’t take it literally.

[frankfrazetta]

Originally Posted by praveen

FWIW, the 6 digit Explorer II fits this profile. At ADs as well as the greys there's not much wait or grey premium for this model.

Yep. Bought a snickered up exp II from a grey below MSRP in the last six months. Polar.

[exador]

One problem with your idea is that most Grey Dealers are based in the States. So if you live in another part of the world you're going to have to pay Duty/Tax on top of the huge grey mark-up when you import the watch.

[el-heffe]

I've considered thinking about it that way as well, but I always come back to not wanting to feed the grays out of principle. One day, maybe I'll cave, but I doubt it. Lately, I've been moving more towards PM, which I can buy at a discount with a shorter wait, so the SS are less attractive anyway.

The only exception would be buying used, but then you're paying less than MSRP anyway. I know there are used models that list above MSRP, but I personally would rather wait for new and play "less", so I'm not referring to those.

[The Argonaut]

Originally Posted by 123Blueface

Honestly, I am happy for you.
I wouldn’t want anyone telling me what to do with my money.
I am just a firm believer that buying from grey at ridiculous prices because it’s the only way just serves to perpetuate the problem. There are other choices/routes and in reality, you won’t die because you don’t get that watch.
What counts is if you are happy, enjoy the watch in good health.

Very nicely put.

[dubins930]

Originally Posted by askdanny

The price of the BLRO came down because it started at more than double MSRP for a watch that was released just months ago. To say “we’ve already seen BLRO prices come down” is true but misleading. The premium on that watch is still higher currently than the premium paid for a BLNR or Hulk.


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It isn’t misleading... the price has come down! More have been produced and purchased, more widely available from greys... price comes down. Hulk and BLNR have been out for years, there are far more of them in existence why wouldn’t they have a lower premium? The BLRO isn’t going to stay at 18k as it becomes more available.

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by dubins930

It isn’t misleading... the price has come down! More have been produced and purchased, more widely available from greys... price comes down. Hulk and BLNR have been put for years, there are far more of them in existence why wouldn’t they have a lower premium? The BLRO isn’t going to stay at 18k as it becomes more available.

In comparison, the Hulk is 8 years old. It’s been out so long that the amount of inventory of this watch has to be significant yet it’s a $12.5 true market watch. The Hulk has hit its ceiling at $12.5. There is nothing magical about the Daytona and it holds its current price point. New hot models probably will hold a +3-5k premium over msrp for a long long time.

[dubins930]

Originally Posted by Mystro

In comparison, the Hulk is 8 years old. It’s been out so long that the amount of inventory of this watch has to be significant yet it’s a $12.5 true market watch. The Hulk has hit its ceiling at $12.5. There is nothing magical about the Daytona and it holds its current price point. New hot models probably will hold a +3-5k premium over msrp for a long long time.

Yeah it will more than likely hold a premium, but the price will come down as more of them enter the market.. I don’t know what that price will be... but it won’t be the 18k+ it entered at, as it has come
down.

[ROLMARINER]

Originally Posted by dubins930

The BLRO isn’t going to stay at 18k as it becomes more available.

Who says the BLRO is going to become more available?

If I were Rolex, I'd learn from the amazing frenzy around the Daytona and create a similar unicorn that has far greater appeal to a far larger audience. The Daytona is off-putting to some with its price and its size and its niche complication. Pick another reference that is more popular, do the same thing on steroids.

Creating that 10 year waiting list and positive press by targeting a more affordable watch that every Submariner owner would find appealing, the GMT makes a lot of sense if they were going down this path. And with 9 different configurations available, you're not going to hurt sales in that model by making a hard-to-find one-off. Reaching back to the iconic Pepsi and tricking it out with a unique bezel and bracelet combination feels like a pre-planned marketing opportunity to me, and not a way to sell more GMT's. They already were selling enough. By releasing BLRO's with an eyedropper they can keep the social and traditional media buzz from the Daytona continuing for years to come.

[dubins930]

Originally Posted by ROLMARINER

Who says the BLRO is going to become more available?

Because it is more available... more inc threads, more on grey sites... it’s not really a debate. It is already more available than from the first watch sold.