Mr. Bennahmias's reaction to the bad publicities about Code 11:59

[yachty 1]

I think if he straight up said we wanted to offer something elegant but different from the ro and roo lineup it would be fine. But to reference a 19 year old!!! First of all you are catering to the smallest percentage of people that would ever buy that watch. Maybe 1 percent. If that's the case it sounds like a poor business decision.

[vman]

Originally Posted by yachty 1

I think if he straight up said we wanted to offer something elegant but different from the ro and roo lineup it would be fine. But to reference a 19 year old!!! First of all you are catering to the smallest percentage of people that would ever buy that watch. Maybe 1 percent. If that's the case it sounds like a poor business decision.

What I don't get is this... AP has a dress line already. Why not add a new model or spiff up the exiting line up to add something new? It is not like they don't have any dress models...

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by singe89

well the overseas isn't nearly the popularity level of the Nautilus or Royal Oak.

Take away the oyster and rolex would be the cellini.....

People get too caught up in the iconic Royal Oak as a name and say AP is a "one watch company" there are more variations, complications and materials across all the RO lines than rolex has variations in the oyster case. Rolex just gives them different names.

Patek is dress watches and "basic" luxury sport watches. They just put their most complicated movement in the nautilus and its just a PC. AP on the other hand makes far superior and complicated luxury sport watches.

[whan]

I agree with the comments above saying it's a risk marketing this to 19-25 year olds. I'm just beyond that age at 26, but I can say that the overlap of those in the younger demographic who like the MVMT-like minimalist aesthetic and those that can afford $20k+ is a very small one.

Most of those in my age group who actually have the means and desire to spend that kind of money typically are those who are just coming into that ability (IE they can only choose one watch), and want to buy the icons of horology. This means Rolex Daytonas and Royal Oaks. $20k is a huge gamble to spend on a watch that feels less inspired / less iconic than those I mentioned above.

[tigerpac]

^^^ Cheapest model is reported to be 26.8k!

[goog53]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Then he shows it to Wei to prove he is not making this up because...you know...it might be hard to believe.
Something tells me he read that from a fans post on the MVMT forum.

Honestly I don't hate the watch. All it needs is new dials and those are easy to change. Throw a no date on there like the MR, change the fonts and make it steel and I think its pretty cool.

SS and 38mm, and like Tom said mimic the MR dial BUT with a different font.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by vman

What I don't get is this... AP has a dress line already. Why not add a new model or spiff up the exiting line up to add something new? It is not like they don't have any dress models...

have you ever seen one? i haven't and no AD i have ever been in who carries AP carries the JA line. That says everything. Clearly the new line is a more modern dressy type watch and maybe they think people want that instead of the JA.

[zahain]

"I cannot fake it! This i cannot fake" I love Francois, clearly lost the plot.

Why does he wear the same black or blue leather jacket at this current and past SIHH? Does anyone know the brand?

The young people he is referring to are the ones who are asian buyers who have been purchasing his high complication royal oak and concepts on social media. I have seen them host many AP dinners for them so i dont think he is talking about North America / European 19-25 yr old buyers would take a second look at this 11.59 lineup. If sales dont do well, he will just ramp the production down using the royal oak as his sales spine.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

have you ever seen one? i haven't and no AD i have ever been in who carries AP carries the JA line. That says everything. Clearly the new line is a more modern dressy type watch and maybe they think people want that instead of the JA.

I’ve really only seen JA in the cases at dealers that were about to lose AP, often for significant discounts. I came across one in VA last year that was flat out advertised as 25% off as the starting point.

[KVNNSCHNG]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Francois be salty lol

The funniest part was at the end when wei gave him an award for last years announcement.

I couldn't agree more... Francois' sodium levels are through the roof here.

[Burlington]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

they have indicated previously they are keeping it flat. Not sure if that changed but going off that you are making these instead of something else.

Flat in 2019 then ramp up from 2020 is what FHB was saying at last year’s SIHH if I recall correctly.

[RolexZen]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

have you ever seen one? i haven't and no AD i have ever been in who carries AP carries the JA line. That says everything. Clearly the new line is a more modern dressy type watch and maybe they think people want that instead of the JA.

I saw lots of them in Singapore last year, both in boutiques and in ADs. Honestly, didn't give them a second look, because I was sizing up the Royal Oak line.

I think there are some valid criticisms of the Code 11.59 line, but I think there are a lot of narrow perspectives being shared here and on other social media platforms. I assume AP is in a better position to understand global interests and strategize how to align them with their goals.

[Burlington]

Originally Posted by zahain

"I cannot fake it! This i cannot fake" I love Francois, clearly lost the plot.

Why does he wear the same black or blue leather jacket at this current and past SIHH? Does anyone know the brand?

The young people he is referring to are the ones who are asian buyers who have been purchasing his high complication royal oak and concepts on social media. I have seen them host many AP dinners for them so i dont think he is talking about North America / European as the 19-25 yr old buyers would take a second look at this 11.59 lineup. If sales dont do well, he will just ramp the production down using the royal oak as his sales spine.

It is a nice jacket. There is a similar style from Belstaff. The Pershall bomber jacket. It’s not his one, but similar with extra detailing on the shoulders.

[onnomon]

Originally Posted by singe89

well the overseas isn't nearly the popularity level of the Nautilus or Royal Oak.

Take away the oyster and rolex would be the cellini.....

People get too caught up in the iconic Royal Oak as a name and say AP is a "one watch company" there are more variations, complications and materials across all the RO lines than rolex has variations in the oyster case. Rolex just gives them different names.

Patek is dress watches and "basic" luxury sport watches. They just put their most complicated movement in the nautilus and its just a PC. AP on the other hand makes far superior and complicated luxury sport watches.

agreed. Some of the Millenary models are really cool and I would consider those a somewhat daring leap, more so than the Code. I'm having trouble seeing the Code as a dress watch given the complexity of the case- definitely an all-rounder ( "secret" octagon "code" within).

BTW I thought in Europe it is 23:59 for that minute before midnight. So i';m thinking lunchtime.

[Burlington]

Originally Posted by singe89

well the overseas isn't nearly the popularity level of the Nautilus or Royal Oak.

Take away the oyster and rolex would be the cellini.....

People get too caught up in the iconic Royal Oak as a name and say AP is a "one watch company" there are more variations, complications and materials across all the RO lines than rolex has variations in the oyster case. Rolex just gives them different names.

Patek is dress watches and "basic" luxury sport watches. They just put their most complicated movement in the nautilus and its just a PC. AP on the other hand makes far superior and complicated luxury sport watches.

Absolutely correct

[Navarino]

I understand what they were trying to accomplish -- that's why my criticism of the line has nothing to do with the RO or ROO product families. That being said, execution fell short. There are certainly elements of the watches I like (I think the round from top and octagonal on the sides design is a clever nod to brand DNA) but overall none of these had me leaning forward in my seat to stare closer at the details.

The biggest head-scratcher to me is the price point. They are essentially asking (new) customers to roll the dice and try one these out. You would think they would have a few other options (maybe one time/date only and one complication in steel variants) at a more accessible price point. People might be more willing to give the new line a try at a lower price before investing in a PM piece.

[T3F]

Originally Posted by SMD

Very confused. Who is this younger generation he is speaking of? 19-25 year olds are going to buy these watches? Does he know any 19-25 year olds, other than the ones he is emailing with? How much overlap is there of a ven diagram of 19-25 year olds that (a) want a very expensive watch (as opposed to smart watch), (b) can afford one and (c) would buy the 1159? I know young bankers and lawyers in NYC and very few even want a watch, let alone a gold watch on a leather strap.

Next, on the one hand he states that they specifically chose to launch via social media because its a modern form of communication and then in the next breathe criticizes the knee jerk response of SM to the 1159. I assume they had some sense as to what social media was like before they made the decision to launch the way they did and in such big way.

Finally, I have no doubt this was a huge effort, that they spent a ton of time on this and the breadth of the launch was significant. I suspect that is where the defensiveness is coming from, but when you have to pull out an email from a 19 year old that is fluffing you for the 1159 launch as proof that it was a success, I think you have lost the plot.

They have a lot to work with here -- the case, the lugs, the sapphire -- that they can use to launch more, IMO, interesting dials and designs. I see some potential for this to evolve into a nice line of "dressier" watches for AP, but he does need to at least be open to hearing opinions that do not align with his or from that segment of their customer base that will applaud everything AP does. You cannot only listen to yes men.

For what it’s worth, I’m in that age range, and, well, I’m not at all a fan of the new line.

I do think they really tried and that a lot of effort went into it, so I’m not upset with the brand like some others are, I just think they just missed the mark. Sometimes that will happen, and it is what it is, although I do think they probably should have seen this one coming more than they did. Honestly, the design has grown on me some in the past few days, but the size is just a bit ridiculous. It’s clearly a dress watch, but it’s huge, will probably wear bigger, and appears to be very thick. I think you’ll need a 7” wrist at a minimum for this, and I don’t think it will look good unless you have a 7.5” wrist or bigger.

It frustrates me that AP focuses so much attention on watches that you need a big (7”+) wrist to wear when so many of their customers don’t meet that requirement (a good amount anywhere, but especially in Asia, which must make up a very substantial percentage of their sales).

[Betta01]

Be patient, wait for version 2!
I am sure AP will improve on the dials and maybe add a lovely bracelet..
Especially on the chronograph, the case, pushers and crown are lovely..too good a design to be let down by the current dials..


Sent from my HUAWEI NXT-L29 using Tapatalk

[V25V]

Whole lotta 19 year olds out there buying 30K watches.....

Fine, you want to cater to the upcoming generation but they are still quite a ways from buying something like this (trust fund babies aside), let alone a dress watch.....

[RolexZen]

Jeez, some of you guys are really getting emotional about this. If you don't like the new line, don't buy. It's not for me, so I won't buy a Code 11.59, but I'm pretty happy they are trying new things.

As far as why they are releasing the approx. $25K watch, I guess it's because they think they can. If they can't, they won't. What's there to get pissed off about? You weren't out buying JA watches, anyways.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by RolexZen

Jeez, some of you guys are really getting emotional about this. If you don't like the new line, don't buy. It's not for me, so I won't buy a Code 11.59, but I'm pretty happy they are trying new things.

As far as why they are releasing the approx. $25K watch, I guess it's because they think they can. If they can't, they won't. What's there to get pissed off about? You weren't out buying JA watches, anyways.

i like it. im not buying one, but yes i appreciate the option.

My only issue is that without a production bump it just means less of the popular watches will be available which are already in short supply to begin with. Last three months in particular there has been hardly anything to even see, its a desert in large AD's that are keeping their AD status (at least in the short term). At least Rolex has displays full of DJ's. There is literally nothing in some AP displays.

I like the code or the code 11:59 or whatever its called more than the 15500

[RolexZen]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

i like it. im not buying one, but yes i appreciate the option.

My only issue is that without a production bump it just means less of the popular watches will be available which are already in short supply to begin with. Last three months in particular there has been hardly anything to even see, its a desert in large AD's that are keeping their AD status (at least in the short term). At least Rolex has displays full of DJ's. There is literally nothing in some AP displays.

I like the code or the code 11:59 or whatever its called more than the 15500

Yes, empty displays are not a good thing. I don't have any AP boutiques or ADs here in Atlanta, so I don't see that like you do in London. In Singapore, though, there are plenty of watches on display in the boutiques and ADs, though the SS models are hard to find. But at least for the SS Royal Oaks, you can try on a corresponding PM version to see how it wears.

And I agree--I'm impressed by most of the design elements of the Code 11.59. The case is great, and I look forward to seeing them in person soon (I have upcoming travels planned for Singapore, Hong Kong, and Seoul, so fingers crossed). I imagine the extra-thin bezel and the curved sapphire can really only be appreciated up-close and in person.

[karasus]

Originally Posted by RolexZen

Jeez, some of you guys are really getting emotional about this. If you don't like the new line, don't buy. It's not for me, so I won't buy a Code 11.59, but I'm pretty happy they are trying new things.

As far as why they are releasing the approx. $25K watch, I guess it's because they think they can. If they can't, they won't. What's there to get pissed off about? You weren't out buying JA watches, anyways.

Was in the market for a JA chrono or a vintage VC, took the vintage VC thinking that JA I can pick up later.

[HarryLime]

I wonder if newly minted millennials will buy one of these as their first watch, after realizing you can't just walk into an AP boutique and walk out with a Royal Oak?

[singe89]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

i like it. im not buying one, but yes i appreciate the option.

My only issue is that without a production bump it just means less of the popular watches will be available which are already in short supply to begin with. Last three months in particular there has been hardly anything to even see, its a desert in large AD's that are keeping their AD status (at least in the short term). At least Rolex has displays full of DJ's. There is literally nothing in some AP displays.

I like the code or the code 11:59 or whatever its called more than the 15500

local AP AD in Newport Beach, CA. Just a 15400 TT and RO quartz



Was at the Boutique in LA shortly after and they had some good high end pieces and PM RO/ROOs but still no SS.

[AK797]

When a 19 year old says that's the best watch I've ever seen in my life that is not a good example. He really should have consulted with SM and the forums at the design stage, the interaction is so important in this day and age, the movement and the subtle touches are so secondary, they are just not seeing the wood for the trees.

The WIS world is getting younger but sportier, so this leather watch is already a hard sell, esp in PM only. They needed some buzz and hype and probably some hip hop/social influencers to get on board but that ain't gonna happen. This is so last decade.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by singe89

local AP AD in Newport Beach, CA. Just a 15400 TT and RO quartz



Was at the Boutique in LA shortly after and they had some good high end pieces and PM RO/ROOs but still no SS.

harrods looked the same two weeks ago when i was in. it was crazy. they only difference is they kept the prices up where the watches that were not there were supposed to go.

[c17r15]

Many of the AP VIPs are squarely in the 19 (and sub-19?) to 26 range from Revolution's profile pieces, which may be where FHB is getting the praise in a vacuum from....

Anyway, excellent execution, especially in the movement and curved sapphire on the CODE 11.59s, which is to be expected coming from AP. I just would not spend any of my money in purchasing one.

[dmacintyre]

Very disappointed in the design in question. And, after seeing the video, the CEO's behavior / attitude too.

It's starting to look like it's not the brand for me any more.

[watchfan0529]

Originally Posted by c17r15

Many of the AP VIPs are squarely in the 19 (and sub-19?) to 26 range from Revolution's profile pieces, which may be where FHB is getting the praise in a vacuum from....

Anyway, excellent execution, especially in the movement and curved sapphire on the CODE 11.59s, which is to be expected coming from AP. I just would not spend any of my money in purchasing one.

FHB might be getting too much taste of the high life, thinking as long as he praises these young rich millenial VIP's, everybody will follow suit. That, or he just simply doesn't care about anybody else because he's racking in so much money from these VIP's.

A good example are airline companies..they make so much money from first and business class, so the airline board focuses on those clients, and sells to economy clients just because they have to. If FHB thinks this way, i think it will be bye bye AP for me soon.

Originally Posted by dmacintyre

Very disappointed in the design in question. And, after seeing the video, the CEO's behavior / attitude too.

It's starting to look like it's not the brand for me any more.

I have the same sentiments. The CEO really brings down the image of AP for me..