Fernando Alonso won Daytona 24h ! First F-1 pilot to win this race.

[dan993]

You are correct with the politics. Motorsport is never going to be as pure as it was years ago. I attend the Le Mans Classic and the truth is the cars of the past evoque more passion in me than in any of the current formulas. There is too much too loose for the big teams now to even get close to allowing a level playing field. I'm all for a budget cap in formula 1 but it has to be done correctly so engineers are still given freedom to find new ways of making their cars faster. I'd prefer the ground effect cars back so cars can follow each other in relatively cleaner air.

[V25V]

Originally Posted by dan993

You are correct with the politics. Motorsport is never going to be as pure as it was years ago. I attend the Le Mans Classic and the truth is the cars of the past evoque more passion in me than in any of the current formulas. There is too much too loose for the big teams now to even get close to allowing a level playing field. I'm all for a budget cap in formula 1 but it has to be done correctly so engineers are still given freedom to find new ways of making their cars faster. I'd prefer the ground effect cars back so cars can follow each other in relatively cleaner air.

Exactly. Bring back tunnels, cut all these aerofoils, smaller wings and less electronics. You watch the old days of these drivers actually driving the cars and compare to cockpits today and it is utterly boring. Don't even get me started on the halo...

[huncho]

Originally Posted by V25V

Exactly. Bring back tunnels, cut all these aerofoils, smaller wings and less electronics. You watch the old days of these drivers actually driving the cars and compare to cockpits today and it is utterly boring. Don't even get me started on the halo...

agreed. watching clips of senna drive 1 handed gives you anxiety whereas nowadays its just very bland. imo there is no thrill in watching modern f1, but its inevitable due to technology

[mangoseed]

Originally Posted by dan993

My thoughts exactly while I'm not a Hamilton fanboy he beat Alonso in the same car fair and square when both were at McLaren. Vettel lets his emotions get the better of him and loses focus.

Actually they finished tied on points that season. I know the flaws in Alonso's character are evident, but based on driving skill alone he was the best. Hamilton had the much better car in 2012 but it was Alonso challenging Vettel for the title. As for 2007 there are a lot of reports about favoritism happening at McLaren that year, the British media were going crazing fawning after Hamilton (he was far more popular than he is today).

[jfmiii]

Originally Posted by huncho

agreed. watching clips of senna drive 1 handed gives you anxiety whereas nowadays its just very bland. imo there is no thrill in watching modern f1, but its inevitable due to technology

the engine formula in F1 super lame. the cars today sound like vacuum cleaner compared to the V10 and V12 screamers of yesterday.

[dan993]

Originally Posted by mangoseed

Actually they finished tied on points that season. I know the flaws in Alonso's character are evident, but based on driving skill alone he was the best. Hamilton had the much better car in 2012 but it was Alonso challenging Vettel for the title. As for 2007 there are a lot of reports about favoritism happening at McLaren that year, the British media were going crazing fawning after Hamilton (he was far more popular than he is today).

Where are these reports of favouritism? Yes the public got excited about Hamilton as a new F1 driver who was winning and brought excitement to F1 but the facts are Alonso wanted out as soon as he knew he was not the No 1 driver and brought about the whole Ferrarigate to get out of his contract.

[EEParker]

I was able to go to the race this year (and smartly left before the rain started). Bucket list event for any fan of motorsports, even if you prefer open-wheel or stockcar to sportscar. The atmosphere was incredible, and the infield is packed with racing / car fans of all types. Plenty of amazing vintage cars to see parked with car clubs. New cars you can check out at the fan zone. And of course the race cars. And unsurprisingly, amazing watches are everywhere! Not just on the winners... Very cool experience.

[mangoseed]

Originally Posted by dan993

Where are these reports of favouritism? Yes the public got excited about Hamilton as a new F1 driver who was winning and brought excitement to F1 but the facts are Alonso wanted out as soon as he knew he was not the No 1 driver and brought about the whole Ferrarigate to get out of his contract.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a...on-dhjlfqmsxss

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/motorsp...30-gdr89a.html

The first source shows there were accusations of favoritism even quite early in the season.

As far as I know it was not Alonso who leaked the spying controversy.

[dan993]

I can't read all the first article but only piece I can see is Alonso saying he feels McLaren favour Hamilton and the second article is Hamilton saying he felt that the team would prefer he won the championship. Ron Dennis on many occasions has stated both drivers had equal equipment. What do you make of Alonso being happy with Renault to instruct Piquet Jnr to crash at Singapore to bring out the safety car so Alonso could win the race? We are going to have to agree to disagree. I rate Alonso highly as a driver just not as high as Hamilton and I am not a Hamilton fanboy as I am not fond of the public persona he now chooses to have.

[FiftyTwoEighty]

Originally Posted by huncho

agreed. watching clips of senna drive 1 handed gives you anxiety whereas nowadays its just very bland. imo there is no thrill in watching modern f1, but its inevitable due to technology

Yes!

Senna at Monaco: 1 handed, in the rain and/or shifting with his left hand in the hairpin.

His car would dance in the straights at the edge of grip.

[mangoseed]

Originally Posted by dan993

I can't read all the first article but only piece I can see is Alonso saying he feels McLaren favour Hamilton and the second article is Hamilton saying he felt that the team would prefer he won the championship. Ron Dennis on many occasions has stated both drivers had equal equipment. What do you make of Alonso being happy with Renault to instruct Piquet Jnr to crash at Singapore to bring out the safety car so Alonso could win the race? We are going to have to agree to disagree. I rate Alonso highly as a driver just not as high as Hamilton and I am not a Hamilton fanboy as I am not fond of the public persona he now chooses to have.

I don't defend any of his personal antics and do see him as somewhat cancerous to team moral, but based on driving ability alone I would rate him much more highly, especially after having success in other series whereas Hamilton and Vettel have done nothing outside of F1.

[Rock]

It is always difficult to make an accurate comparative assessment of drivers because you have to take into account the temporary dominance of a particular constructor when it corresponds with the dominance of a particular driver.
Fangio, for example, won his 5 World Championships with (respectively) Alfa, Mercedes, Mercedes, Ferrari and Maseratti.
Prost won 3 of his 4 with McLaren (who were fairly dominant in that period '84 - '91) and 1 with Williams.
Schuey won 5 of his 7 with Ferrari when they were the top team.
Vettel won his 4 all with Red Bull and Hamilton 4 of his 5 with Mercedes.
...and at times nothing but pure luck seems to account for why one driver in a Team is dominant for a while when the equipment is pretty much the same.
Team strategy aside, I'm not a great believer in conspiracy theories within Teams.

[goin camping]

Fernando (As much as I dislike him) is one of the very best drivers I have ever seen in F1.

It is a real shame he absolutely cannot get on a winning team unless by mistake. I have never seen a guy who consistently picks the slowest car team to join.

[1st amg]

He is one of my favorite of all time. Wonderful person too as I was very fortunate to meet him personally on a couple of occasions.


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[77T]

Originally Posted by Rock

It is always difficult to make an accurate comparative assessment of drivers because you have to take into account the temporary dominance of a particular constructor when it corresponds with the dominance of a particular driver.

True for single seaters during a season. But, taking us back in the topic of ALO winning the Rolex24, we can compare lap times in same car, same conditions, same track against Jordan Taylor.

Daytime dry vs. night time wet vs. daytime wet. Ummm...ALO and Taylor turned similar lap times while I was watching.

The difference in skill came in two flashes of brilliance. One when Taylor took the lead in a bold move on a wet track (before handing the car over to ALO). Then just 10 minutes before the 2nd R/F, ALO presses Nasr into making a mistake.

Both drivers did well as did Their other 2 teammates.





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[texasmade]

Originally Posted by mangoseed

I don't defend any of his personal antics and do see him as somewhat cancerous to team moral, but based on driving ability alone I would rate him much more highly, especially after having success in other series whereas Hamilton and Vettel have done nothing outside of F1.

That’s because Hamilton and a Vettel never needed to do anything outside of F1. They still have competitive rides. Alonso was in a crap situation with a garbage car that couldn’t even survive a race weekend. Do you really think Alonso would be racing in other series if he were driving for Mercedes, Ferrari, or RB right now? If the roles were reversed, we’d all be saying the same thing about Hamilton or Vettel and how great they are winning in other series.

[mangoseed]

Originally Posted by texasmade

That’s because Hamilton and a Vettel never needed to do anything outside of F1. They still have competitive rides. Alonso was in a crap situation with a garbage car that couldn’t even survive a race weekend. Do you really think Alonso would be racing in other series if he were driving for Mercedes, Ferrari, or RB right now? If the roles were reversed, we’d all be saying the same thing about Hamilton or Vettel and how great they are winning in other series.

That's assuming they would be capable of winning in other series, which we have seen no evidence of.

[texasmade]

Originally Posted by mangoseed

That's assuming they would be capable of winning in other series, which we have seen no evidence of.

I guess we can also make the assumption then that Fernando can no longer win in F1 then since we haven’t seen any evidence that he’s competitive there in the last 4 years,

[Rolex Essex]

Originally Posted by mangoseed

That's assuming they would be capable of winning in other series, which we have seen no evidence of.

Oh right! Shumacher, Prost, Senna haven’t won other race series during their F1 career so Alonso must be better than them all.

[Rolex Essex]

Originally Posted by V25V

Don't even get me started on the halo...

I’m not a fan of Halo but you have to remember Charles Leclerc might not be alive by now.

[Rock]

F1 addicts have been debating the question of who is the greatest F1 driver of all time for decades. There is no credible way to compare drivers across 70 years with all the changes and variations that have occurred but it is a fascinating topic.
Towards the end of his long life, Juan Manuel Fangio commented "In my day it was 75% car and mechanic, 25% driver and luck. Today it's 95% car."
Just about all the 'greats' have been nominated with justifications mostly based around the obvious simplistic measure of 'starts/wins' or even just the number of wins. Numbers of World Championships also only tell part of the story.
Frequent nominees include Juan Manual Fangio, Jim Clark and Ayrton Senna.

[V25V]

Originally Posted by Rolex Essex

I’m not a fan of Halo but you have to remember Charles Leclerc might not be alive by now.

He would also be alive now if the drivers would have acknowledged the local flag and/or they wouldn't allow freakin huge tractors on the circuit while race cars are circulating. I race and even at my level, local yellows get zero respect. If you slow, you are giving up time. If you watch the video of his accident again, they hardly even slow for that corner, if at all. If F1 wanted to fix the problem, they could have held themselves (for the tractor/crane) and the drivers (for not yielding to the local yellow) responsible and learned from the freak accident. Instead, let's slap some device over the cockpit that traps drivers when flipped over (another freak accident they will now have to address) and continue to kill F1. Well done..... F1 is just about dead to me at this point anyhow, it's freakin awful to watch.


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[Rolex Essex]

I’m talking about Charles Leclerc who nearly had his head swiped off by Alonso’s wheel at Spa.
I think you got confused with Bianchi who lost his life at Suzuka.

[dan993]

Originally Posted by Rolex Essex

Oh right! Shumacher, Prost, Senna haven’t won other race series during their F1 career so Alonso must be better than them all.

my feeling exactly!

[mangoseed]

Originally Posted by dan993

my feeling exactly!

Taking my post way out of context, Hamilton was only marginally better than Rosberg when they were teammates for 4 seasons.

t shows he has a diverse skillset that can lead to success in many different series. Hamilton and Vettel are some of the luckiest drivers ever in terms of being in a ultra-dominant cars for long periods.

Since there are so many drivers of a nearly equal ability, F1 success is 99% cars, the difference between the best drivers and average drivers is miniscule.

[V25V]

Originally Posted by Rolex Essex

I’m talking about Charles Leclerc who nearly had his head swiped off by Alonso’s wheel at Spa.
I think you got confused with Bianchi who lost his life at Suzuka.

Yeah, correct, sorry.

Another freak accident, point is we cannot keep making knee jerk reactions to these types of incidents. Its racing, it is supposed to be somewhat dangerous and trying to prevent every sort of injury is killing the sport.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by V25V

Why did Ferrari keep paying big money to secure Barrichello all those years?

He's a Formula 1 development driver. That means not only is he a talented driver, he knows how to help an engineer sort out a car.

[V25V]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

He's a Formula 1 development driver. That means not only is he a talented driver, he knows how to help an engineer sort out a car.

No, that wasn't why. They paid him because he played nicely with Schumacher and knew his role on the team, good little lap dog.

[77T]

Originally Posted by V25V

Its racing, it is supposed to be somewhat dangerous and trying to prevent every sort of injury is killing the sport.

Cant agree that it is “supposed” to be somewhat dangerous.

I agree it involves danger from many aspects. Trying to prevent injuries from those aspects that we can fix is key to having a sport at all.



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[V25V]

Originally Posted by 77T

Cant agree that it is “supposed” to be somewhat dangerous.

I agree it involves danger from many aspects. Trying to prevent injuries from those aspects that we can fix is key to having a sport at all.



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Common response. Agree to disagree on it but lets both just watch the sport die together.