Best chrono's in the market

[Jedi]

Originally Posted by Stratton

Please could you explain why. Thanks.

A column wheel imposes less stress on the chrono and escapement when it comes to activation and resetting of the chrono component of the movement. Imagine meshing a whole set of gears into play with very little in terms of slip or clutch in a car's gearbox. A column wheel is like a turret, with teeth cut into the top and it allows a chrono mechanism to stop and start smoother than a coupling device found in say, a Valjoux 7750 which is ubiquitous in terms of chronographs on the market today.

the Daytona contains a column wheel, as do all the chronographs mentioned in my earlier post.

[jeangtd]

What do you guy's think about the breguet type xx

http://www.timeofswitzerland.com/Bre...T-92-9W6_e.cfm
saw it today and loved it, does anybody know what movement it uses

[BigHat]

Well I'd also think an SS VC OS would be a contender.

By the way, don't get too wrapped up in the in-house vs out-house movements. Plenty of examples to show this isn't that significant. For example, the AP ROO watches only recently (with the Themes) went to in-house movement. Aside from a bit more power reserve, I'm not that excited about it over the mod'd JLC (pretty sure) they used to use.

That Lange above has been judged the best chrono of the planet by those that compete against it. Of course, it's not really an option for most people at 4x or more the Daytona price.

[boa2]

Originally Posted by BigHat

Well I'd also think an SS VC OS would be a contender.

By the way, don't get too wrapped up in the in-house vs out-house movements. Plenty of examples to show this isn't that significant. For example, the AP ROO watches only recently (with the Themes) went to in-house movement. Aside from a bit more power reserve, I'm not that excited about it over the mod'd JLC (pretty sure) they used to use.

That Lange above has been judged the best chrono of the planet by those that compete against it. Of course, it's not really an option for most people at 4x or more the Daytona price.

The VC Malte Chronograph is yet another step up, IMO. I sure would like to have that beautiful OS, though.

[BigHat]

Originally Posted by boa2

The VC Malte Chronograph is yet another step up, IMO. I sure would like to have that beautiful OS, though.

Concur. The Malta is really nice. That's a Geneva Seal watch too I think. The OS will be shortly, but mine isn't.

It's a distinction we rarely make around here, but Jedi seems to have started it with his post. The "non-sports watch chrono" really can't be compared accurately to the others. When I see Daytona, I don't think "space dial" on the leather strap (dress watch), I think SS or gold bracelet sports models. In that league I think: VC OS, Zenith, AP RO / ROO and JLC.

[boa2]

Originally Posted by BigHat

Concur. The Malta is really nice. That's a Geneva Seal watch too I think. The OS will be shortly, but mine isn't.

It's a distinction we rarely make around here, but Jedi seems to have started it with his post. The "non-sports watch chrono" really can't be compared accurately to the others. When I see Daytona, I don't think "space dial" on the leather strap (dress watch), I think SS or gold bracelet sports models. In that league I think: VC OS, Zenith, AP RO / ROO and JLC.

Excellent point, Matt.

[onkyo]

Originally Posted by DSJ

Except it has the Valjoux movement.

Yes, not in-house like Daytona.

BUT Valijoux IS a reliable workhorse movement (at a more affordable price)

[Jedi]

Originally Posted by onkyo

Yes, not in-house like Daytona.

BUT Valijoux IS a reliable workhorse movement (at a more affordable price)

I didn't think affordability is a point in this discussion, as we're looking for the 'Best Chrono's on the market'....

[moby33]

Originally Posted by Jedi

I didn't think affordability is a point in this discussion, as we're looking for the 'Best Chrono's on the market'....

Yes & no. While true the discussion is about the 'Best Chrono', there also was a mandate that it must be an all in-house movement. I find those two points at odds with each other as the 'Best Chrono' might not necessarily be from an all in-house movement. As I'm sure we can all agree, a high price point does not necessarily equate to best status.

Seems kind of like asking for the best sports car, then go on to say it must be from Germany or Italy or the U.S. Impossible to fairly answer if one's hands are tied behind one's back IMO. Cheers.

[onkyo]

Originally Posted by DSJ

Except it has the Valjoux movement.

Woops, I missed the in-house requirement of the poster.

What happens when you surf TRF on an iphone.

My answer changes to Daytona!

[Jedi]

Originally Posted by moby33

Yes & no. While true the discussion is about the 'Best Chrono', there also was a mandate that it must be an all in-house movement. I find those two points at odds with each other as the 'Best Chrono' might not necessarily be from an all in-house movement. As I'm sure we can all agree, a high price point does not necessarily equate to best status.

Seems kind of like asking for the best sports car, then go on to say it must be from Germany or Italy or the U.S. Impossible to fairly answer if one's hands are tied behind one's back IMO. Cheers.

Yes and No indeed... yes, not all good movements are in-house, but when it comes to chrono's, to be considered as good, and not just workhorse status, they must have a column wheel, in my opinion anyways, and when that happens, according to my criteria, then price increases. Like, most super performance cars are turbo charged and have semi auto sequential gearboxes and keyless entry

[JohnEaton]

Originally Posted by onkyo

Here you go... for your viewing pleasure

crap crap crap crap crap!!!!!!

Dammit Onkyo, I was happy... I had my new watch fix... All was right in the world.

And you posted this

I've already found one on ebay for $2200 USD, it looks sweet too

Like I need another white chrono

STOP ME SOMEBODY PLEASE

[moby33]

Originally Posted by Jedi

Yes and No indeed... yes, not all good movements are in-house, but when it comes to chrono's, to be considered as good, and not just workhorse status, they must have a column wheel, in my opinion anyways, and when that happens, according to my criteria, then price increases. Like, most super performance cars are turbo charged and have semi auto sequential gearboxes and keyless entry

You might be right...I really can't speak to the column wheel as I'll admit my knowledge is extremely limited in that regard. The extent of my chrono experience I guess would be considered 'budget' for this threads standards - Omega SMPs/POs, Bell&Ross, Breitling's & 1 Fortis.

That being said, as I mentioned previously, my SMP has never let me down w/ regard to chrono operation (or time for that matter). I've owned it for almost 8 years now, never had it serviced and it hasn't missed a beat (and it has been stopped, started and reset in the thousands, not just hundreds...yes, I use the hell out of the chrono feature).

While I'll admit the tech info I read about on this thread regarding the column wheel was interesting, there is a part of me that thinks, "Great...but my SMP has never let me down and works perfectly...what more could I ask for?" Sure I could spend a ton more for an all in-house movement, but is the chrono operation really going to be more reliable? How do you get more reliable than 100% reliable? To me (and maybe this is too simplistic of a view), the best chrono is one that never misses a beat when you want to use it for timing purposes. Cheers.

[moby33]

Originally Posted by Jedi

Yes and No indeed... yes, not all good movements are in-house, but when it comes to chrono's, to be considered as good, and not just workhorse status, they must have a column wheel, in my opinion anyways, and when that happens, according to my criteria, then price increases. Like, most super performance cars are turbo charged and have semi auto sequential gearboxes and keyless entry

P.S. Call me old school...but there are a number of naturally-aspirated engines that have amazing performance numbers & I LOVE the feel of an 'antique' MT gear box (current Z06 comes to mind wrt engine)...if my feet aren't doing as much work shifting gears as my hands, I just don't feel like I'm connected to the car.

Although only 32 yrs old, I love 60's & early 70's muscle/sports cars...the performance #'s are nowhere close to today's production cars, but the feeling you get behind the wheel is raw driving at it's best IMO.

There's nothing like pushing one of these machines to the limits (which actually isn't very hard considering the low tech of the vehicles)...but slam on the brakes of a non-power assisted brake car and bring it to a stop without locking up the tires or losing control of the rear and you'll know what I mean. You just can't get that type of rush driving a computer-assisted ABS machine w/ traction/slip control IMO...that type of driving is too synthetic if you ask me. Sorry for the hi-jack...I digress! Cheers.

[Jedi]

Yeah, I like a good MT too, and the connectedness that one gets. My friend has an early model BMW M3 that is so much more fun to drive than a current model remote control odd job. Having said that, I do love my Golf GTI

Another note about the column wheel: It's not a modern concept, in fact it's been around for ages, but it does require more adjustment in order to take full advantage of the gains it offers. The reason it's not in common use is that a cam driven coupling system to be found in most chronos is simply easier and cheaper to manufacture. It's not strictly necessary, but when it comes to a chrono, it's what should be there to be considered 'state of the art'.

I too have a Speedy chrono, but in automatic form as opposed to SMP. It too runs well, as does my Breitling Navitimer, but once you've clicked a column wheel chrono, you'll see what I mean.

[lorsban]

Originally Posted by jeangtd

What do you guy's think about the breguet type xx

http://www.timeofswitzerland.com/Bre...T-92-9W6_e.cfm
saw it today and loved it, does anybody know what movement it uses

Great watch, but stick to the steel version as it's cheaper to buff. The watch uses the 582Q movement, which is by Lemania.

Here's mine (titanium):

[moby33]

Originally Posted by Jedi

Another note about the column wheel: It's not a modern concept, in fact it's been around for ages, but it does require more adjustment in order to take full advantage of the gains it offers. The reason it's not in common use is that a cam driven coupling system to be found in most chronos is simply easier and cheaper to manufacture. It's not strictly necessary, but when it comes to a chrono, it's what should be there to be considered 'state of the art'.

I too have a Speedy chrono, but in automatic form as opposed to SMP. It too runs well, as does my Breitling Navitimer, but once you've clicked a column wheel chrono, you'll see what I mean.

That's interesting...I'll definitely have to pay attention the next time I operate a Daytona. I'll admit I didn't really notice a differene, but I'll also admit I wasn't really paying attention either. Now I'm curious to operate a column wheel chrono to see what all the hype is about. Thanks for the great info!

[moby33]

Originally Posted by lorsban

Great watch, but stick to the steel version as it's cheaper to buff. The watch uses the 582Q movement, which is by Lemania.

Here's mine (titanium):

Love the looks of that watch w/ the date planted in the subdial...great use of space IMO. That would be my wish if they ever came out with a Daytona Date.

[jeangtd]

I guess It's AP ROO, the Lange, DAYTONA, and VC. hmmmmm Im going to go try them out again and see what happens

[Marrk]

I must say, I'm enjoying this thread very much. Thanks, guys.

Like the OP, I prefer a sports chrono with an in-house movement. The in-house movement, for me, has less to do with the functionality of the watch than the achievement of the watchmaker. Also, I like designs that start with a "clean sheet of paper." To take up the car analogy: Some Ford engines are terrific, but having one in a Ferrari would spoil things for me.

I hope that makes sense.

[BigHat]

Originally Posted by Marrk

I must say, I'm enjoying this thread very much. Thanks, guys.

Like the OP, I prefer a sports chrono with an in-house movement. The in-house movement, for me, has less to do with the functionality of the watch than the achievement of the watchmaker. Also, I like designs that start with a "clean sheet of paper." To take up the car analogy: Some Ford engines are terrific, but having one in a Ferrari would spoil things for me.

I hope that makes sense.

Yes, your post makes great sense, but be advised rarely does anyone start with a "clean sheet of paper." They adapt existing in-house movements and buy / license aspects of those owned by others. I think some others could cite JLC or ETA examples that have been modified into works of art by others.
To continue your analogy, if Ford made an awesome engine block, would it be so bad if Ferrari filled it with their internals (what they do best) rather than waste the energy and expense of trying to replicate the Ford block? That's why you see a tried and true ETA core used frequently. Go to the WatchTime archives to read a very interesting story on the innovation and quality of one of the ETA movements many brands adapt; it helped change my opinion on the issue.

[Marrk]

a true clean sheet of paper design is probably impossible, if you want to speak in absolute terms [If you design a new car, it's still based on, and an extension of, the entire preceding history of automobile design, right? ] But, in a practical sense, it's a cool ambition to have.

"if Ford made an awesome engine block, would it be so bad if Ferrari filled it with their internals" . . . Yes [but only because I am a crazy person ]

I understand what you are saying, Mr Hat, and I quite agree. But there is something else that I am giving value to, some idea of originality and bumper-to-bumper conception that, indeed, may be chimerical.

Originally Posted by BigHat

Yes, your post makes great sense, but be advised rarely does anyone start with a "clean sheet of paper." They adapt existing in-house movements and buy / license aspects of those owned by others. I think some others could cite JLC or ETA examples that have been modified into works of art by others.
To continue your analogy, if Ford made an awesome engine block, would it be so bad if Ferrari filled it with their internals (what they do best) rather than waste the energy and expense of trying to replicate the Ford block? That's why you see a tried and true ETA core used frequently. Go to the WatchTime archives to read a very interesting story on the innovation and quality of one of the ETA movements many brands adapt; it helped change my opinion on the issue.

[BigHat]

Originally Posted by jeangtd

I guess It's AP ROO, the Lange, DAYTONA, and VC. hmmmmm Im going to go try them out again and see what happens

If you're serious about potentially parting with the cash required for a Lange chrono, you might appreciate this post of mine from Oct '08:


Sadly, it's not yet online, but if you get Forbes magazine you'll also get Forbes Life.
In the September issue I just got in the mail, the Lange Turbillion on the cover, the headline is: "The Finest Watch you Never Heard Of." In a magazine that caters to high-end items for business executives, I think that says it all about brand recognition in higher end watches.

Key excerpts:

Philippe Dufour's personal choice is the Lange Datograph.

Eric Klein, Piaget's movement designer, says his favorite chronograph of all time is the Datograph.


Dufour when asked why he feels that A Lange and Sohne watches are simply superior shrugged and said, " Take ten movements out of the current range of any contemporary brand, put them next to a Lange movement and comment honestly on what you see. That is the best way to judge -- by examining the truth.

Great info on the restart of the brand, the iconic Lange One, and the workmanship devoted to their watches too.

[moby33]

Originally Posted by BigHat

If you're serious about potentially parting with the cash required for a Lange chrono, you might appreciate this post of mine from Oct '08:


Sadly, it's not yet online, but if you get Forbes magazine you'll also get Forbes Life.
In the September issue I just got in the mail, the Lange Turbillion on the cover, the headline is: "The Finest Watch you Never Heard Of." In a magazine that caters to high-end items for business executives, I think that says it all about brand recognition in higher end watches.

Key excerpts:

Philippe Dufour's personal choice is the Lange Datograph.

Eric Klein, Piaget's movement designer, says his favorite chronograph of all time is the Datograph.


Dufour when asked why he feels that A Lange and Sohne watches are simply superior shrugged and said, " Take ten movements out of the current range of any contemporary brand, put them next to a Lange movement and comment honestly on what you see. That is the best way to judge -- by examining the truth.

Great info on the restart of the brand, the iconic Lange One, and the workmanship devoted to their watches too.

That was a great issue w/ amazing pictures. Recently pulled it out from the pile of mags next to my bed and gave it to a WIS friend that doesn't get Forbes. I would kill for any of those watches...but alas, if I'm going to spend that kind of $ on 'toys', it will go toward more classic cars for my stable as I would get more enjoyment driving my $ than having it sit on my wrist. Cheers.

[cousie]

and what about Richard Mille, really fine piece of art!
especially the Massa edition.

[mretzloff]

In general, I do not like chronographs, but I would consider wearing a A. Lange & Söhne Datograph or Datograph Perpetual...if I could afford them

[onkyo]

Originally Posted by JohnEaton

crap crap crap crap crap!!!!!!

Dammit Onkyo, I was happy... I had my new watch fix... All was right in the world.

And you posted this

I've already found one on ebay for $2200 USD, it looks sweet too

Like I need another white chrono

STOP ME SOMEBODY PLEASE

Go for it my friend!

Doesn't fit this thread's requirements, BUT it does have -->

beautiful black bezel

date function

nice red 'Tiger' lettering

reliable movement (at an affordable price)

All around great looks!!!!

[cody p]

with column wheel...

[JimSnyder]

Originally Posted by JohnEaton

You notice I don't have an Omega bracelet on

I'm wearing black leather right now, my black aligator is not here yet...

A NATO or ZULU would work too

They really look nice on a rally type strap

[topcat30093]

What an excellent thread,throughly enjoyed reading it and learnig a lot.
Thanks to all those that contributed.
Just to throw another name into the ring. I read in one of the watch magazines. That a movement that I believe is no longer made and called VENUS. Was reputed to be the best chronograph movement that you could get. Even beating the Lemania movement that is fitted to such watches as the PP 5070.
Now I am far from being an expert,but I thought tht I would just add this to the thread.
Though I believe that it was not an in house movement and was used by several companies.
For what its worth. I would go with the gorgeous L&S Daytograph. Having tried one on I can say its one very beautiful watch. But the best part of it. Is the movement, turn the watch over and just revel an marvel at such a magnificent piece of craftmanshift.