Rolex 5513 vs red 1680

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by cajuntiger

1680 is not a 1680 without a top hat :)

Agree, but each to his own! Beautiful 1680!

[1665fan]

Super dome is much better than the top hat..... much cleaner and classier imho

[chunkythebulldog]

1680 Red for me

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by Filipão

The 5513 is a Submariner. The real one.

One 1680 is a Submariner date, not a Submariner.

BTW, why is yours (Submariner Date) on a 5513 T19 and not on a top hat?

Ha!

my red1680 isnt pretending to be a 5513, because thats NOT a t19 crystal...

my sub is actually pretending to be a seadweller because my crystal is a big boy t-39 Super Duper dome... which is actually higher than a top hat, without the dreadful cyclops.

[Filipão]

How should we name a Submariner with a top hat and a lupe?

A Sherlock Sub?

[springer]

Originally Posted by 1665fan

Super dome is much better than the top hat..... much cleaner and classier imho

I'll take a big old dome crystal over the top hat myself. I love those domes.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by zapokee

Agree, but each to his own! Beautiful 1680!

I'm with cajuntiger ... gotta have a top hat crystal on a 1680. For starters, it's correct, and I love the way it looks. Save the domes for 5512-13s and 1665s.

I'm always surprised about how some collectors/hobbyists crave absolute "correctness" in every single aspect of a vintage Rolex, down to the tiniest of details, such as font thickness on an insert or whether a "6" should be open or closed on a date wheel based on a watch's serial number/year ... but then they'll slap a crystal on it that belongs on a difference reference. I don't get it, although one can do whatever one likes with his/her watch, of course.

[1665fan]

Top hat with no cyclops is better......cyclops ruins it for me and top hat doesn’t flow....I might get a sd43 and first thing I would do is remove cyclops

[BrazenC5]

Originally Posted by SubKing

my red1680 isnt pretending to be a 5513, because thats NOT a t19 crystal...



my sub is actually pretending to be a seadweller because my crystal is a big boy t-39 Super Duper dome... which is actually higher than a top hat, without the dreadful cyclops.

I have the top hat on my 1680r, but prefer the superdome also. One day I might have it swapped.

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[Filipão]

Originally Posted by swish77

I'm with cajuntiger ... gotta have a top hat crystal on a 1680. For starters, it's correct, and I love the way it looks. Save the domes for 5512-13s and 1665s.

I'm always surprised about how some collectors/hobbyists crave absolute "correctness" in every single aspect of a vintage Rolex, down to the tiniest of details, such as font thickness on an insert or whether a "6" should be open or closed on a date wheel based on a watch's serial number/year ... but then they'll slap a crystal on it that belongs on a difference reference. I don't get it, although one can do whatever one likes with his/her watch, of course.

Yes. Just that.

[Crown & Shield]

I would not do it. One thing would be adding a 1680 to your collection, another is trading your nice 5513 for it.

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by swish77

I'm with cajuntiger ... gotta have a top hat crystal on a 1680. For starters, it's correct, and I love the way it looks. Save the domes for 5512-13s and 1665s.

I'm always surprised about how some collectors/hobbyists crave absolute "correctness" in every single aspect of a vintage Rolex, down to the tiniest of details, such as font thickness on an insert or whether a "6" should be open or closed on a date wheel based on a watch's serial number/year ... but then they'll slap a crystal on it that belongs on a difference reference. I don't get it, although one can do whatever one likes with his/her watch, of course.

I totally get what you're saying, Aaron (though, to be sure, I have never been a stickler for correctness-obsessing!). But, like a lot of things I own, I'm totally cool with a modification if it's something I think improves the aesthetic for me. Though, I am stickler for at least keeping the original components, so that if I do ever sell it, it can be returned to its original version.

But, like you said, for me a T19 (or even at T39) on a 1680, "I love the way it looks"

[michael23]

I would do it. The Red Sub is the best and nicest vintage sub imo.

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by swish77

I'm with cajuntiger ... gotta have a top hat crystal on a 1680. For starters, it's correct, and I love the way it looks. Save the domes for 5512-13s and 1665s.

I'm always surprised about how some collectors/hobbyists crave absolute "correctness" in every single aspect of a vintage Rolex, down to the tiniest of details, such as font thickness on an insert or whether a "6" should be open or closed on a date wheel based on a watch's serial number/year ... but then they'll slap a crystal on it that belongs on a difference reference. I don't get it, although one can do whatever one likes with his/her watch, of course.

its more widely accepted because to throw a top hat crystal on a 1680 is cheap and easy... 100 bucks and can be changed in 10 minutes with a pocket knife, tape and a retaining ring press.

wheres a superdome t39 is pretty rare and far from cheap when found.

correct or not, its something that doesn't detract from the piece. it adds to it.
its a clear piece of plastic, its not a dial change and its not a permanent alteration.

instead of being surprised about my crystal change, why don't you get surprised when you see majority of collectors slap their vintage watches on aftermarket straps of all kinds... its pretty much the same thing. like i said its a clear piece of plastic that slightly enhances it for some, just like a nice strap might enhance a piece...

so there is really nothing not to get. im actually surprised to hear this from you of all people on the forum.

[KarlFr]

Originally Posted by SubKing

... 100 bucks and can be changed in 10 minutes with a pocket knife, tape and a retaining ring press.
....

No offense but having owned more than a dozen 1680 & 5513´s I´ve noticed a problem with loose crystals after previous owner replaced them or the watch has been to a watchmaker that's not a RSC, including a well known service place in the UK.

It might seem tight when its pressed then but will loosen when you remove the bezel later. I always let my RSC do the crystal swap, the movement has to come out when using the Rolex press. Also I only use NOS crystals and have them pressure tested, but I think its only pressure tested to 100m due to possible micro cracks. Just my experience

[swish77]

Originally Posted by SubKing

its more widely accepted because to throw a top hat crystal on a 1680 is cheap and easy... 100 bucks and can be changed in 10 minutes with a pocket knife, tape and a retaining ring press.

wheres a superdome t39 is pretty rare and far from cheap when found.

correct or not, its something that doesn't detract from the piece. it adds to it.
its a clear piece of plastic, its not a dial change and its not a permanent alteration.

instead of being surprised about my crystal change, why don't you get surprised when you see majority of collectors slap their vintage watches on aftermarket straps of all kinds... its pretty much the same thing. like i said its a clear piece of plastic that slightly enhances it for some, just like a nice strap might enhance a piece...

so there is really nothing not to get. im actually surprised to hear this from you of all people on the forum.

A crystal is very different than a strap/bracelet. The crystal is an integral part of the watch, and each one is designed specifically by Rolex for the watch reference. I'm a stickler for correctness on a watch, but mods are cool too for some people, just not me.

I don't even consider the bracelet to be part of the watch, really, although I always try to make sure the bracelet is original to the piece, or at least correct. There's also a history of different straps on Rolexes that can be changed, with optional/different bracelets and leather straps that were offered from the Rolex factory, and even NATOs on military-issued Subs. Not so with crystals.

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by swish77

A crystal is very different than a strap/bracelet. The crystal is an integral part of the watch, and each one is designed specifically by Rolex for the watch reference. I'm a stickler for correctness on a watch, but mods are cool too for some people, just not me.

I don't even consider the bracelet to be part of the watch, really, although I always try to make sure the bracelet is original to the piece, or at least correct. There's also a history of different straps on Rolexes that can be changed, with optional/different bracelets and leather straps that were offered from the Rolex factory, and even NATOs on military-issued Subs. Not so with crystals.

a bracelet to me is an integral part of a watch. So thats where we differ on opinion.. military subs were modified by the MOD not rolex. so if you ask me, just because one reference was placed on a nato by a third party, doesnt make it rolex. So one can argue its no more correct than my crystal that was actually made by rolex..

either way, most of the collectors i know, if they see a red sub with a t-39 super dome, it would actually be more appealing. Top Hats are still being produced by rolex and easily had. not the case with t-39 super dome. I have 2 sealed top hats and wont use them until i absolutely have to. This to me is an upgrade to have this crystal fitted.

[btinl]

I would choose the red 1680 every time.

[seattleal]

Originally Posted by swish77

A crystal is very different than a strap/bracelet. The crystal is an integral part of the watch, and each one is designed specifically by Rolex for the watch reference.

This is true, but only to a point. During the acrylic crystal period Rolex published a table showing which non-cyclops crystals were appropriate replacements for cyclops crystals. So in many cases there is a non-cyclops crystal which is Rolex designated. Here is the table-

[cajuntiger]

Originally Posted by SubKing

a bracelet to me is an integral part of a watch. So thats where we differ on opinion.. military subs were modified by the MOD not rolex. so if you ask me, just because one reference was placed on a nato by a third party, doesnt make it rolex. So one can argue its no more correct than my crystal that was actually made by rolex..

either way, most of the collectors i know, if they see a red sub with a t-39 super dome, it would actually be more appealing. Top Hats are still being produced by rolex and easily had. not the case with t-39 super dome. I have 2 sealed top hats and wont use them until i absolutely have to. This to me is an upgrade to have this crystal fitted.

The bracelet was commonly swapped at the dealer, and in the US the watch and bracelet came separately.

Personally I stick to all the original parts, including the bracelet...and in my world of collectors, originality is essential.

Top hats are not all equal, and extremely hard to find...try to find the actual original top hat crystal for a 1680 for less than a grand and I'll take 2. If you look at my photos on the previous page, this is the correct and original Top Hat. Very different from the ones that you say are easy to find.

T-39 doesnt belong on a 1680...its an amazing crystal, but belongs on a different reference. Thats my .02

[Filipão]

Originally Posted by cajuntiger

Personally I stick to all the original parts, including the bracelet...and in my world of collectors, originality is essential.

Absolutely. Down to date code on clasps.

[kans86]

Originally Posted by donsidhu

Got with your gut. That Red Sub is nice. Great case too. We'd need to see more pics of your 5513. Perhaps more lugs shots and a close up of the dial. But just going on what you've shown, I'm taking that deal all day if I were you. Just my opinion

My 5513 has had a lot of wrist, but still retains most of its charmfers.

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by cajuntiger

The bracelet was commonly swapped at the dealer, and in the US the watch and bracelet came separately.

Personally I stick to all the original parts, including the bracelet...and in my world of collectors, originality is essential.

Top hats are not all equal, and extremely hard to find...try to find the actual original top hat crystal for a 1680 for less than a grand and I'll take 2. If you look at my photos on the previous page, this is the correct and original Top Hat. Very different from the ones that you say are easy to find.

T-39 doesn't belong on a 1680...its an amazing crystal, but belongs on a different reference. Thats my .02

im not sure when we started talking about correctness vs preference?

I don't like top hats.

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by swish77

Even assuming condition is identical, including the very nice patina on the 5513 and faded insert, my vote would be with the 5513. Cleaner look, more iconic and simple ... just as classic as it gets for a vintage Sub. (That comes from a place of watch passion, not investment/value. I've all but stopped worrying about that.)

And unless I have my reading glasses on, I can't even see that tiny line of red on the dial of a 1680! (only half-joking).

In that case, do the trade, sell the red sub, buy another 5513 in equal condition and pocket the difference?


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[southtexas]

Originally Posted by seattleal

This is true, but only to a point. During the acrylic crystal period Rolex published a table showing which non-cyclops crystals were appropriate replacements for cyclops crystals. So in many cases there is a non-cyclops crystal which is Rolex designated. Here is the table-

Very cool info. However, interestingly it says there’s no substitute for 1680’s 127??


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[cajuntiger]

Originally Posted by SubKing

I don't like top hats.

Yes I get that.

Originally Posted by SubKing

im not sure when we started talking about correctness vs preference?

When you said Rolex still makes the Top Hat...which is not correct.

[seattleal]

Originally Posted by southtexas

Very cool info. However, interestingly it says there’s no substitute for 1680’s 127??


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True, but I think that may be because although the 127 is designed for the 1680, it was known that the 1680 case was the same as the 5512/13 case, so c127/t19 would be assumed to be interchangeable. That is not the situation for the other entries in the table.

here is a clearer copy of the table-

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by cajuntiger

Yes I get that.




When you said Rolex still makes the Top Hat...which is not correct.

they do.. it may be a service top hat with a slightly different bevel on the edge, but they still make top hats and provide them during routine service.

[cajuntiger]

Originally Posted by SubKing

they do.. it may be a service top hat with a slightly different bevel on the edge, but they still make top hats and provide them during routine service.

Still make?? I dont think these have been made for many years. They are still available, but are selling for a premium. You can get service super domes too...they just aren't the same as the original.

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by cajuntiger

Still make?? I dont think these have been made for many years. They are still available, but are selling for a premium. You can get service super domes too...they just aren't the same as the original.

buddy, i think you're splitting hairs just to split hairs.. RSC dallas still stocks them and provides replacements during routine service.

I really wish you were better informed..........