The real reason for the SS shortage: No real competition in the SS market

[oldman2005]

Originally Posted by 123Blueface

+1

Also,
Too much emphasis by too many on “resale”. Ponder it well before you buy it, enjoy it, keep it is my motto.
...

+1, IMO if you worry too much about resale maybe you can't really afford the watch and there's much more to watch than just profit, can't really a judge a watch only on resale value.

[chloebear]

I think Rolex has remarkable restraint. Their gradual changes never make their older models look out of date. I've tried many other brands. I like many other brands. But nobody gets the bracelet right like Rolex. To me that's the biggest difference. Rolex bracelets look amazing, they are extremely comfortable and quick and easy to strap on. I can't tell you how many goofy awkward bracelets I've tried from other brands that always frustrate me.

For example, I use the EZ link extension every day. Around lunch time I take it in. It comes off my wrist, adjustment made, and back on my wrist in about 1/1000th of a second. Perfection.

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by Wristwatcherboy

Breitling have in fact not turned their back on the history of the brand, but rather the complete opposite. They are bringing out re-releases of vintage pieces and if you knew anything about them you would know that their last few tent pole releases have been very closely inspired and related to watches in Breitlings rich history. And it is exactly the “new ownership” which is responsible for this.

For years past Breitling actually had turned their back on their history, preferring instead to churn out massive and garish fully polished watches instead of referencing their rich heritage and back catalogue of beautiful watches. But this has all changed now, under their new management.

Perhaps before you go criticising every other brand apart from Rolex, it would very much help if you were slightly more informed about them than what you appear to be.

I'm withholding judgment until I see how things play out long term. As a Breitling fan whose appreciation for the brand is rooted in their offerings from the early-to-mid 2000s, I'm hopeful the new management can right the ship, but based on most of their newest releases (i.e., the Navi 8 and Premier lines), I'm not convinced yet.

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by oldman2005

Lots of competition for SS sport. Rolex is stronger in the +$12k watch but probably can't compete with other in the lower price SS steel sport, maybe that's why they're concentrating on their higher profit margin DJ/TT/PM products. I once worked for a big company which only enter a market if they were the top 3, if their market share is smaller than that they won't compete. Look around you, companies usually shred the unprofitable/low-profit product lines, ie Ford is exiting the sedan market concentrating on SUV, trucks,...

Rolex isn't Ford.A rolex doesn't leak oil

(I drive a Mustang )

[Turnaround]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

a sample set of 1 is most likely a fluke. Plenty of one off Rolex purchasers who would have the same story. Because its their only one they would think the QC is exceedingly bad.



By almost all accounts GS is on an entirely different level than Rolex as far as finishing and details.

I hear you about the one off fluke, and was willing to accept that at the time I purchased the Snowflake, but a quick search revealed that I was one of many that received similar examples. The worst I’ve seen about SS Rolex sport is a misaligned bezel. Finding more than that takes a good bit more searching.

[Dlong]

Planet Ocean in 39.5mm is real nice. A tad thick though. Tag makes some nice watches. Kinda big though. Zenith has cool watches. Patek Nautilus and Aquanaut I think are kinda fugly.If they had Seiko written on the front, nobody would give them a second look.

[TswaneNguni]

Nobody else has 904L steel.

[NavalFlight]

Originally Posted by mangoseed

Rolex is the only solid choice in the current market, even more so if you want a quality bracelet.

I disagree with this premise completely. Just because there is a Rolex bubble right now doesn’t mean there is no competition.

First you ignore AP which is also reselling above list. But resell is not the only factor in whether there are “good choices” in the market.

Both the Breitling Navitimer and the Superocean Heritage II are also classic steel watches with strong history.

Most glaringly missing from your idiotic rant is the Cartier Santos, the first men’s watch, first pilot watch, and first sports watch. The cheapest price on Chrono24 is 17% off retail.

You also neglect the Zenith El Primiro which has, perhaps, the best chrono movement of any watch.

But yeah, no good SS models out there other than Rolex.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

Nobody else has 904L steel.

is that really a necessity though? personally i dont care.

Its more corrosive resistant and AFAIK the chemical industry uses it to store acid and stuff vs regular steel containers... but the owners of the watches wear them on their skin so that advantage is somewhat lessened

[Headhunter007]

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

I'm withholding judgment until I see how things play out long term. As a Breitling fan whose appreciation for the brand is rooted in their offerings from the early-to-mid 2000s, I'm hopeful the new management can right the ship, but based on most of their newest releases (i.e., the Navi 8 and Premier lines), I'm not convinced yet.

The early 2010 Breitling Superocean 44 was/is a classic, high quality piece. It is the only watch that I regret selling. I have not appreciated most of Breitling’s subsequent collections...including the current superocean.

I also have an appreciation for Panerai...albeit limited. They have bastardized the brand and I will never again buy limited editions. I own a Pam 90 and 422 and I have to say, I love wearing them.

Been said a billion times, buy what you love.

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by NavalFlight

I disagree with this premise completely. Just because there is a Rolex bubble right now doesn’t mean there is no competition.

First you ignore AP which is also reselling above list. But resell is not the only factor in whether there are “good choices” in the market.

Both the Breitling Navitimer and the Superocean Heritage II are also classic steel watches with strong history.

Most glaringly missing from your idiotic rant is the Cartier Santos, the first men’s watch, first pilot watch, and first sports watch. The cheapest price on Chrono24 is 17% off retail.

You also neglect the Zenith El Primiro which has, perhaps, the best chrono movement of any watch.

But yeah, no good SS models out there other than Rolex.

Saw a Cartier Santos Skeleton ...very nice !!
Tank Solo XL in ss or rg also pretty nice

[ct.matt]

Breitling drove me to Omega, Omega drove me to Rolex, Rolex drove me to Patek. It's a rite of passage.
I'd hope that the ridiculous unavailability and the defeating and often humiliating experience at Rolex boutiques will have people look more closely at other brands. For a while every other person at watch meetups was either wearing the BLNR or new Daytona. "What are you wearing today? *flashes wrist* "Same, bro" *flashes wrist*
"Other mothers have beautiful daughters, too"

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by Paul_I

Regarding thickness, that's a subjective opinion.

All of this is subjective, but my subjective view is there is merit to the claim. Take the Seamaster 300 Master Co-Axial, for instance. Although listed as a 41mm watch, the case itself is actually 39mm; only the bezel measures 41mm. Total watch thickness is 15mm. 39mm diameter with 15mm thickness is a pretty stubby ratio to begin with, imo. But when you then factor in that a lot of the thickness is in the caseback, and the official diameter of 41mm comes from a bezel that overhangs the edges of the case, the design ends up looking top heavy.

Unfortunately, this seems endemic to all of Omega's in-house offerings, which I attribute to a combination of movement thickness and Omega's insistence on giving all of their watches display backs. And those are just the three-hand watches. The chronographs are into hockey puck territory.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by ct.matt

Breitling drove me to Omega, Omega drove me to Rolex, Rolex drove me to Patek. It's a rite of passage.
I'd hope that the ridiculous unavailability and the defeating and often humiliating experience at Rolex boutiques will have people look more closely at other brands. For a while every other person at watch meetups was either wearing the BLNR or new Daytona. "What are you wearing today? *flashes wrist* "Same, bro" *flashes wrist*
"Other mothers have beautiful daughters, too"

its a circle not a line.

My last purchases are as follows: Panerai, Omega, Tudor.... the five purchases before that Patek, Rolex, Rolex, Patek, Rolex.

[ct.matt]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

its a circle not a line.

My last purchases are as follows: Panerai, Omega, Tudor.... the three purchases before that Patek, Patek, Rolex.

I'll definitely add another Rolex in the near future. Just can't seem to get one at a reasonable rate
That said, I'm more interested in talking to people that are wearing something entirely different from everyone else at meetups. If we're all wearing the same three watches because "they're the best investment"/"are the hottest watches right now" it gets old very quickly. I'll talk to the guy or girl that wears more exotic pieces, especially ones that I rarely if ever see in the wild!

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by ct.matt

I'll definitely add another Rolex in the near future. Just can't seem to get one at a reasonable rate

TBH for me it took getting some really expensive watches to then appreciate the more modestly priced ones. They all have their place, but its not like the Tudor is a 15X less nice of a watch than a Patek. There is a lot of value there. Same goes for Tudor vs Rolex. Rolex is nicer, but not 3X nicer.

Thats why i think collections eventually go in a circle and then its not just going up and up and up

[Roll X]

Originally Posted by Paul_I

Regarding thickness, that's a subjective opinion.

So true
If someone would provide a link to the "2019 Authorized Watch Dimension Requirements" I would certainly appreciate it.

[GMTSpas]

Originally Posted by ndls

I swear the only competition in my mind is Grand Seiko. And I would consider GS as a complimentary to a solid Rolex collection.

I only started this journey 1.5 years ago, and I genuinely wanted to seek other companies. Truthfully, Rolex SS just fit the bill. Can’t stop loving my Sub!

Agree. GS spring drive was a game changer and their finishing is right up there with any respectable luxury brand

[mangoseed]

Originally Posted by Wristwatcherboy

Breitling have in fact not turned their back on the history of the brand, but rather the complete opposite. They are bringing out re-releases of vintage pieces and if you knew anything about them you would know that their last few tent pole releases have been very closely inspired and related to watches in Breitlings rich history. And it is exactly the “new ownership” which is responsible for this.

For years past Breitling actually had turned their back on their history, preferring instead to churn out massive and garish fully polished watches instead of referencing their rich heritage and back catalogue of beautiful watches. But this has all changed now, under their new management.

Perhaps before you go criticising every other brand apart from Rolex, it would very much help if you were slightly more informed about them than what you appear to be.

Okay then Mr. Wristwatcherboy, explain why they have stopped making the COSMONAUTE?? And yeah new watches the Skyracer are really true to the history, a 45mm piece of rubbish with a turd of a quartz movement inside of a plasticky ceramic case.

[MTBer]

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

...Unfortunately, this seems endemic to all of Omega's in-house offerings, which I attribute to a combination of movement thickness and Omega's insistence on giving all of their watches display backs. And those are just the three-hand watches. The chronographs are into hockey puck territory.

Truly a double-edged sword here. I still don't have a display back in my collection and very nearly purchased a Master Control instead of my Reverso for this reason. If I buy another Omega at some point, it'd have to be a display back- the dual spring barrels are a pretty cool sight, and they're nicely decorated for the price.

Now what would be really cool is if Omega partnered up with George Daniels' protege, Roger Smith, and licensed his single wheel co-axial design to reduce the thickness of the escapement.

[Brny11]

What has changed in regards to competition to shift the landscape in the past 2 years? Same competition has been out there for past 40 years. I believe your theory is inaccurate. It is shipping to other markets or cut in supply or increase in Rolex demand and increased disposable income, or something else. But the consumer didn’t just decide that Omega, Tag, Hublot l, etc. are sub par to Rolex this year.


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[MartinHH]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

is that really a necessity though? personally i dont care.

Its more corrosive resistant and AFAIK the chemical industry uses it to store acid and stuff vs regular steel containers... but the owners of the watches wear them on their skin so that advantage is somewhat lessened

Think the chemical industries mainly uses 304 and 316

[mangoseed]

Originally Posted by mbalmz

I posted this response in the Breitling forum version of this thread but since it looks like this is the right one I'll put the same response here--

I think it's true seamasters don't engender the same kind of crazy excitement that submariners/GMTs do, but they are very, very much not "outdated".

I also think it's weird to refer to brands like Zenith and JLC as "niche"--those are great brands with a ton of history and cache. The fact that you shrug those brands off as "niche" I think betrays the fact that you really just want a stainless steel watch from a brand that's as iconic and has as much history but at the same time is as high-end and universally recognizable a brand as Rolex, without paying an AP/PP pricepoint. Which just means you want a Rolex. Which is obviously a totally fine and wonderful thing to want (I want them too!) but this has very little to do with there not being competition.

They are niche in that they are much smaller brands in the SS market, JLC has the Polaris range now but has never really had a consistent SS sports range, mostly they focus on the master control and ultra thin range as well as the Rerverso (originally a sports watch but very different to a modern interpretation of a sports watch). Zenith is a bit of a one-trick pony with the El Primero movement.

[mangoseed]

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

I'm withholding judgment until I see how things play out long term. As a Breitling fan whose appreciation for the brand is rooted in their offerings from the early-to-mid 2000s, I'm hopeful the new management can right the ship, but based on most of their newest releases (i.e., the Navi 8 and Premier lines), I'm not convinced yet.

I just cannot forgive the discontinuation of the Cosmonaute.

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by Headhunter007

The early 2010 Breitling Superocean 44 was/is a classic, high quality piece. It is the only watch that I regret selling. I have not appreciated most of Breitling’s subsequent collections...including the current superocean.

It's too bad most of what scratches my Breitling itch is long out of production, although the two new Chronomats last year leave me optimistic the classic "Windrider" look might yet get a new lease on life.

This is my most recent get, straight out of one of Breitling's golden periods. It won't bump my Sub from preferred-daily status, but it's great for variety. It's also something you don't see every day.

[mangoseed]

Originally Posted by NavalFlight

I disagree with this premise completely. Just because there is a Rolex bubble right now doesn’t mean there is no competition.

First you ignore AP which is also reselling above list. But resell is not the only factor in whether there are “good choices” in the market.

Both the Breitling Navitimer and the Superocean Heritage II are also classic steel watches with strong history.

Most glaringly missing from your idiotic rant is the Cartier Santos, the first men’s watch, first pilot watch, and first sports watch. The cheapest price on Chrono24 is 17% off retail.

You also neglect the Zenith El Primiro which has, perhaps, the best chrono movement of any watch.

But yeah, no good SS models out there other than Rolex.

Wow what an unnecessarily confrontational and hostile post. With someone who has knowledge of longterm market behaviors, using the term "bubble" is completely erroneous. I can't even follow the logic of the rest of your post, if any exists at all.

[travisb]

I disagree. I've been looking pretty hard at Omega lately. The new revamped Seamaser 300 is very impressive. Had a look at the black dial version yesterday and came close to grabbing it. If it would have been the blue I would have.

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by Headhunter007

I also have an appreciation for Panerai...albeit limited. They have bastardized the brand and I will never again buy limited editions. I own a Pam 90 and 422 and I have to say, I love wearing them.

Oh there are some you can always buy ...232/249/127/217/341/bronzo/blue bronzo

[rlrobson08]

Originally Posted by NavalFlight

I disagree with this premise completely. Just because there is a Rolex bubble right now doesn’t mean there is no competition.

First you ignore AP which is also reselling above list. But resell is not the only factor in whether there are “good choices” in the market.

Both the Breitling Navitimer and the Superocean Heritage II are also classic steel watches with strong history.

Most glaringly missing from your idiotic rant is the Cartier Santos, the first men’s watch, first pilot watch, and first sports watch. The cheapest price on Chrono24 is 17% off retail.

You also neglect the Zenith El Primiro which has, perhaps, the best chrono movement of any watch.

But yeah, no good SS models out there other than Rolex.

Zenith made the best at that time in history. Imagine, 47 different sized screws in that movement. The first movement in the Daytona. That screw debacle along with increasing the power reserve were the two major reasons for Rolex detuning the movement from 36,000 VPH to 28,800 VPH. 47 different sized screws; no wonder it was a complicated movement.
Currently, one us hard pressed to beat the Breitling B01 or its variants. A chronomat B01, brought the five year warranty to the marketplace . It us really the top dog today in chronograph movements.

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[mangoseed]

Originally Posted by rlrobson08

Zenith made the best at that time in history. Imagine, 47 different sized screws in that movement. The first movement in the Daytona. That screw debacle along with increasing the power reserve were the two major reasons for Rolex detuning the movement from 36,000 VPH to 28,800 VPH. 47 different sized screws; no wonder it was a complicated movement.
Currently, one us hard pressed to beat the Breitling B01 or its variants. A chronomat B01, brought the five year warranty to the marketplace . It us really the top dog today in chronograph movements.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

The B01 is so annoying because you need to push like so hard on the button just to engage the chronograph. The EP is so totally smoother.