Did Tudor Just Confirm a New Submariner

[ROLEXster]

Yes, bring them back.

[2nastie]

Originally Posted by Chester01

I think they are taking aim at the so called “sport watches” that AP and PP puts out (royal oak and nautilus ) Let’s face it the only real sport AP and PP are intended for is for watching sports, while Rolex is for doing sports. While Rolex is mass marketed, their movements are tanks that can take punishment that PP and AP simply can’t. Let’s face it, we as a society have become less formal and more folks wear sport watches and Rolex knows that’s where the money is.

I mean let’s face it I am buy a royal oak and sure has nice hand finishing on the movement, but I have to take it off when I’m playing basketball, tennis, mountain biking where my sub and Daytona does all of those things...so for me, what am I paying for with a nautilus or royal oak.

The royal oak may have started the luxury sport watch movement, Rolex is going to finish it- and judging my the premiums on the gmt and Daytona already have.




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There is no denying the functionality of a Rolex piece can probably fit the everyday life style better than a Royal Oak or Patek.

But I think you are confusing function over form.

Just because a particular item is labelled as a "sports watch" doesn't mean it plays in the same game.

As an example you are basically saying the average sport car Mercedes/Porsche dominating their markets and is now competing against Ferrari as Mercedes/Porsche can produce a more suitable sports car for any situation.

This isn't saying one brand is better than the other. They just are not competing in the same category nor do they want to.

The Royal Oak and Nautilus are labelled sports watches but they are certainly not competing with the Rolex Sub, GMT, Daytona, etc and vice-versa. They are not going after the same market segment. If Rolex wants to play that game then they have will have up all those of elements... and if/once they do, they certainly won't be built as the same tank. They'll scratch just as easy as an example.

I own both Rolex and AP. I enjoy them for the roles they fill and the categories they are in. If one or the other alters themselves to compete into different segments, they certainly will not be the same brand anymore for better or worse. I don't think those two want to be in the same segment.

[ashbaug2]

Originally Posted by dmash

I highly, highly doubt this if it's just a minor revamping of the case and new movement. People aren't going to flip their 116610LNs in droves for such minuscule changes. Not to mention, the supply of Submariners FAR exceeds that of more 'specialty' pieces like SkyD.

Now if they do some limited red text stuff.....things could get crazy. I don't think they're going to take that away from Sea Dweller though.

Totally agree with the part in bold about people not lining up to flip a 116610 to get a 126610 (or whatever they end up calling it...). I think MOST people outside of the forums buy a watch and hold on to it.

As to the underlined part, I have to think that the BLRO is just as easy to make as a sub, now that they've worked through the coloring on the bezel insert, so we should have seen them coming out more frequently. I totally understand that the SkyD is a very complicated piece, in terms of Rolex watchmaking, so there may always be fewer. I think that no matter what, supply will be short, but that's a whole other topic. I do believe, though, that demand for a new Sub will leave demand for Sky Dwellers in the dust...

[dmash]

Originally Posted by ashbaug2

Totally agree with the part in bold about people not lining up to flip a 116610 to get a 126610 (or whatever they end up calling it...). I think MOST people outside of the forums buy a watch and hold on to it.

As to the underlined part, I have to think that the BLRO is just as easy to make as a sub, now that they've worked through the coloring on the bezel insert, so we should have seen them coming out more frequently. I totally understand that the SkyD is a very complicated piece, in terms of Rolex watchmaking, so there may always be fewer. I think that no matter what, supply will be short, but that's a whole other topic. I do believe, though, that demand for a new Sub will leave demand for Sky Dwellers in the dust...

and I agree too......from a numerical standpoint. but in the end.....if demand is 30x more for the Sub....and Rolex produces 90x more Submariners than Sky D.....Sky D lists are still going to be around 3x longer (obviously incredibly simplified).

That's the only point I'm making. I stand by that you can get a basic black Submariner within about 1 year from most ADs, even if they release a new one. Heck, a lot ADs, especially if you have a relationship, can get you an 116610LN within weeks (if not already in the back). This is really not a hard piece to acquire, I am in disbelief at people paying $10k for this watch right now.

EDIT: again though, ^all this logic goes out the door if Rolex prints a red font on the dial. People are going to go bonkers.

[Lemonvr6]

Tudor will find a way to differentiate, there’s no chance of it being 40mm

I bet it’s 38.5 or similar

[dmash]

Originally Posted by Lemonvr6

Tudor will find a way to differentiate, there’s no chance of it being 40mm

I bet it’s 38.5 or similar

or 40mm with interchangeable aluminum bezels, a la Rolex Sub 5 series?

I could see Tudor making some SERIOUS sales with that watch. Modern functionality while making all the pre-maxi/ceramic Rolex Sub lovers happy. I could even see 6 digit Rolex Sub owners picking up one of those in addition.

[CPRWATCH]

Has anyone noticed only the minute hand is in view , & the hour hand is not revealed which is part of the mystery . So the big question is , will it have Snowflake or Mercedes hour hand .

[Lemonvr6]

Originally Posted by dmash

or 40mm with interchangeable aluminum bezels, a la Rolex Sub 5 series?

I could see Tudor making some SERIOUS sales with that watch. Modern functionality while making all the pre-maxi/ceramic Rolex Sub lovers happy. I could even see 6 digit Rolex Sub owners picking up one of those in addition.

Maybe? Look at recent history though.

Black bay- 41mm and thick
Black bay 58- 38mm
SD43- you get your red but it’s 43mm
Pepsi- jubilee


If they give you exactly what you want there’s nothing left to wait for

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by breitlings

I think the new sub is just a matter of time, new movement, slimmer lugs, perhaps a color SS option.

I agree that a new movement in the Sub is imminent in the coming years, and also think some new color options are likely. I disagree about them significantly changing the case design. I've explained elsewhere my reasons for that, and won't go into them again here. But this thread presents a new one: if Tudor is going with a Submariner throwback (which this latest teaser certainly suggests), that lessens the likelihood of a slimmed-down Rolex Sub even more, since Rolex likely will want there to be a distinction between the two brands' models. Given the vintage styling of many of Tudor's divers, it makes sense that Tudor's Sub would cater to all the five-digit lovers who don't like the newer Sub design, while leaving the well-selling six-digit design in the Rolex catalog for those who prefer it. Win win.

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

I agree that a new movement in the Sub is imminent in the coming years, and also think some new color options are likely. I disagree about them significantly changing the case design. I've explained elsewhere my reasons for that, and won't go into them again here. But this thread presents a new one: if Tudor is going with a Submariner throwback (which this latest teaser certainly suggests), that lessens the likelihood of a slimmed-down Rolex Sub even more, since Rolex likely will want there to be a distinction between the two brands' models. It makes sense that Tudor's Sub would cater to all the five-digit lovers who don't like the six-digit Sub design, while leaving the well-selling six-digit design in the Rolex catalog for those who prefer it. Win win.

I'm inclined to agree with this. I am also inclined to buy a Tudor Sub!!!

[904VT]

Originally Posted by dmash

I highly, highly doubt this if it's just a minor revamping of the case and new movement. People aren't going to flip their 116610LNs in droves for such minuscule changes. Not to mention, the supply of Submariners FAR exceeds that of more 'specialty' pieces like SkyD.

Now if they do some limited red text stuff.....things could get crazy. I don't think they're going to take that away from Sea Dweller though.

I think if Rolex updates it will be something unexpected and to drive interest up the line to TT and PM. I am thinking they will update the Submariner time only version and be the first next gen 3230 given the 3132 in the OP39 now as well.

Perhaps matte dial with a Kermit Green or a Smurf Blue bezel. I could see dial being either black or matching corresponding bezel color. Those watches would be impossible to get imo if they ever came about.

[904VT]

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

I agree that a new movement in the Sub is imminent in the coming years, and also think some new color options are likely. I disagree about them significantly changing the case design. I've explained elsewhere my reasons for that, and won't go into them again here. But this thread presents a new one: if Tudor is going with a Submariner throwback (which this latest teaser certainly suggests), that lessens the likelihood of a slimmed-down Rolex Sub even more, since Rolex likely will want there to be a distinction between the two brands' models. Given the vintage styling of many of Tudor's divers, it makes sense that Tudor's Sub would cater to all the five-digit lovers who don't like the newer Sub design, while leaving the well-selling six-digit design in the Rolex catalog for those who prefer it. Win win.

Great point

[jaisonline]

The case looks really thick. I hope they aren’t using theirstandard oversized 42mm BB case that is as thick as a hockey puck.

Looks like Tudor blocked out the hour hand. Hope it's not a snow fake. Maybe something in between a (hybrid) Mercedes and Snow Flake would look cool.

[lecorsaire]

Originally Posted by ashbaug2

Totally agree with the part in bold about people not lining up to flip a 116610 to get a 126610 (or whatever they end up calling it...). I think MOST people outside of the forums buy a watch and hold on to it.

As to the underlined part, I have to think that the BLRO is just as easy to make as a sub, now that they've worked through the coloring on the bezel insert, so we should have seen them coming out more frequently. I totally understand that the SkyD is a very complicated piece, in terms of Rolex watchmaking, so there may always be fewer. I think that no matter what, supply will be short, but that's a whole other topic. I do believe, though, that demand for a new Sub will leave demand for Sky Dwellers in the dust...

No. The reason for the low Sky-Dweller supply compared to the Datejust is not because it’s more complicated. They simply do not want to flood the market with them. It would cannibalize sales of Datejust 41 and possibly the PM Sky-Dwellers as well.

And this doesn’t just apply to Rolex. Patek could make the 5711/5712 in much larger numbers but they deliberately choose not to. For two reasons:
1. They don’t want to be known as a one watch company
2. If the basic steel Nautilus were easy to buy it would damage Patek’s cachet.
They want to sell more annual and perpetual calendars instead of 30k steel watches. That’s where the money is.

[jonnyz1245]

Originally Posted by jaisonline

The case looks really thick. I hope they aren’t using theirstandard oversized 42mm BB case that is as thick as a hockey puck.

Looks like Tudor blocked out the hour hand. Hope it's not a snow fake. Maybe something in between a (hybrid) Mercedes and Snow Flake would look cool.

my guess is its a snow flake so as to be consistent with their current design language. That said, would love to see Mercedes hands. My other guess given the thickness of the case is something similar to a Deepsea. Just a guess and I am most likely wrong

[ashbaug2]

Originally Posted by lecorsaire

No. The reason for the low Sky-Dweller supply compared to the Datejust is not because it’s more complicated. They simply do not want to flood the market with them. It would cannibalize sales of Datejust 41 and possibly the PM Sky-Dwellers as well.

And this doesn’t just apply to Rolex. Patek could make the 5711/5712 in much larger numbers but they deliberately choose not to. For two reasons:
1. They don’t want to be known as a one watch company
2. If the basic steel Nautilus were easy to buy it would damage Patek’s cachet.
They want to sell more annual and perpetual calendars instead of 30k steel watches. That’s where the money is.

I definitely understand that argument, but at the same time I'm not sold. Rolex isn't exactly "flooding the market" with anything right now, except two-tone DJs, apparently. I'm not a watchmaker, but as I've understood it, the simplicity of Rolex movements is why they are so robust and resilient years after they've been discontinued. I also don't buy that upping production of SS SkyDs will take away from PM SkyD sales; the people buying a $16,000 SS SkyD are not usually the same ones thinking "I'll just buy the $40,000 white gold Sky Dweller instead, since they don't have the stainless steel one I wanted." It's like saying SS Submariners hurt the sales of PM Subs, so that's why there's a "shortage" of SS Subs.

In reference to your Patek points:
1) Rolex will never be a "one watch brand" but if it were, the Sky Dweller wouldn't be that watch, I think it's safe to say.
2) Patek and Rolex are different beasts; while Rolex may be trying to move up-market to compete with Patek, I'm not sure they are there yet. But if that is the goal, pushing their most complicated piece (the Sky Dweller, right?) might be the way to get there.

But like anything else Rolex, who really knows???

[RobearH]

Originally Posted by jonnyz1245

my guess is its a snow flake so as to be consistent with their current design language. That said, would love to see Mercedes hands. My other guess given the thickness of the case is something similar to a Deepsea. Just a guess and I am most likely wrong

Very well maybe the New Tudor Pelagos version of the Deepsea. The price point between those two would not as be close as it would with Rolexes Sub. Maybe it will still be Titanium as well. JAT

[Wizardly]

Anyone can make a Sub, and some are very very nice... (as I'm sure this will be) but only Rolex can make THE Sub.

[bdex75]

Originally Posted by DramaTurtle

Tudor is going to kill Rolex.

Yep. And I don’t mind.

But they can’t have their own sub-forum.


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[bdex75]

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

I don't know if this helps, but here's s blow up.

That was a serrated bezel. I thought it was a big arse crown!


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[Onikage]

Could be anything. Tudor Deep Sea.

[watchwatcher]

Meh...I'll just wait and see if it has some sort of adjustable clasp, like the glide lock or the Pelagos before I get too excited.

[Finslayer83]

Originally Posted by Paul_I

A lot of excitement over an homage. If you want a sub buy a sub IMO.

This is more exciting than my sub, why?

Matte dial.

I want a though but nice tool diver. The lack of Rolex on the dial is also appealing for reasons.

[Juhuatai]

I have a hard time believing it will have the mercedes hand. Maybe a submariner with a snowflake hand similar to the old 9411? Would be keeping with the Tudor heritage while maintaining an independence from Rolex.

[904VT]

Originally Posted by watchwatcher

Meh...I'll just wait and see if it has some sort of adjustable clasp, like the glide lock or the Pelagos before I get too excited.

A micro-adjustment is a must for me if Tudor releases an updated Sub or similar diver. I almost bought a Pelagos recently just because of its awesome clasp

[JR16]

Originally Posted by watchwatcher

Meh...I'll just wait and see if it has some sort of adjustable clasp, like the glide lock or the Pelagos before I get too excited.

Was just thinking this! Mind boggling that some quality brands/watches (eg Tudor, GS, PP) don’t have deployants w adjustability.


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[Robertolewis]

Looks big, should be cool, hopefully not too big...

[Junior_]

Originally Posted by greentimgreen

Someone shared this photo extract from their new year video a few months ago. If it looks anything like this I’ll have one in a heartbeat!


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A nice Sub homage.

[khalifam]

Tudor just posted this on their Instagram - no Snowflake hands!!!

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[ashbaug2]

Originally Posted by khalifam

Tudor just posted this on their Instagram - no Snowflake hands!!!

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That picture doesn't really prove anything... The BB uses round markers with a triangle at 12 and still has Snowflake hands. I think the jury's still out on this one, since a minute hand isn't enough to prove a certain hand style.