What do I want with the 3235 caliber?

[Mystro]

Funny about movement wars. If you believe Rolex knew how to make a movement 25 years ago, why would anyone doubt Rolex with increased technology wouldn’t build a better movement today? You either believe Rolex knows how to build a movement or you don’t. It’s not like the company and their founding principles of engineering have changed.

[904VT]

Originally Posted by Mystro

Funny about movement wars. If you believe Rolex knew how to make a movement 25 years ago, why would anyone doubt Rolex with increased technology wouldn’t build a better movement today? You either believe Rolex knows how to build a movement or you don’t. It’s not like the company and their founding principles of engineering have changed.

I certainly believe they can make a great movement and that the 3235 is one or has the potential at least. But like any new movement it takes a few years or more to fully work out the kinks. At least imo.

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by Mystro

Funny about movement wars. If you believe Rolex knew how to make a movement 25 years ago, why would anyone doubt Rolex with increased technology wouldn’t build a better movement today? You either believe Rolex knows how to build a movement or you don’t. It’s not like the company and their founding principles of engineering have changed.

I think its really only an temporary issue for buyers in this transition phase. At some point soon, the entire line will have the new movement and if you want a new watch it will have the new movement. The issue then is really for people debating Subs and Explorers new this year or just waiting for the upgrade. Goods reasons for both buying now or waiting.

[R_Rated]

As soon as this movement makes its way into the sub it will be the new hotness. The primary reason for people justifying the 3135 love right now is the sub fad... and the resulting justifying the trend watch. The REAL divers already made the move to the 3235;) They[Rolex] would not have done that with durability concerns.

[brandrea]

I'm happy to have both.

From my perspective the only tangible difference is the power reserve which I do find handy for the BLRO and time setting (not that it's a hassle at all really, just convenient).

The 31 is a smoother winding movement though, I do notice that.



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[007_Omega]

3235 has had reported issues but it is a brand new movement and will take time to perfect. The 3135 has been around, improved, and refined for decades.

We are dealing with outdated technology here, so developments are going to be slow and certainly not necessary.

Also, it is pretty clear that mechanical watches, in many ways, have been quite advanced and some of the new tech being putting in comes with drawbacks. Omega now has a master co-axial but this has come at the cost of thicker movements. Rolex' 3235 doesn't feel as refined despite the technical improvements.

The 70 hour power reserve is certainly an upgrade. If you are rotating watches, that extra time can certainly save having to set your watch again. Also, maybe just my experience but I don't find the old Rolex rotors to be particularly efficient in powering a watch. You really have to wear them to keep them going so the lower power reserve of the 3135 sucks when you are rotating watches. Of course, some people don't mind setting their watches and all of this is null.

[donas]

My SD43 can lose/gain 5 seconds in a day or two, lol.

[horseShu]

I wondering what the actual advantages of the 32xx movements are...

The co-axial movements of Omega are supposed to bring in a lot of benefits, but they are still being debated even today:
- co-axial escapement being more reliable than the traditional lever escapement -> supposedly longer service intervals. only time can prove this.
- double-barrel -> providing even torgue means the movement retains its accuracy even as the power reserve drops. again, only time can prove this.
- 15000 gauss anti-magnetism -> so far this is the most tangible benefit of the "master chronometer" movements, and pretty relevant in today's gadget-filled world.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by horseShu

I wondering what the actual advantages of the 32xx movements are...

The co-axial movements of Omega are supposed to bring in a lot of benefits, but they are still being debated even today:
- co-axial escapement being more reliable than the traditional lever escapement -> supposedly longer service intervals. only time can prove this.
- double-barrel -> providing even torgue means the movement retains its accuracy even as the power reserve drops. again, only time can prove this.
- 15000 gauss anti-magnetism -> so far this is the most tangible benefit of the "master chronometer" movements, and pretty relevant in today's gadget-filled world.

The dual Spring barrel design has a proven track record supported by physics.
Like a lot of new fangled things, it may be advantageous to a degree but the cost effectiveness component may be found wanting
The other stuff. I'm not convinced of at all yet.
Let's face it, regardless of the supposed reduced maintenance around the Escapement. There are other areas that need fresh lube in a timely manner as well.

It's not like Omega didn't fluff the earliest Co-axial design by implementing a higher beat rate. This is despite Daniels handing over everything he knew about it. After all he virtually designed it from scratch.
I put it down to the arrogance of the Swiss at the time, who thought they knew better.
Anyway, we got to where it needed to be in the end
That's where I came in on the Co-axial

[S.Explorer]

There is something nice about the silence and smoothness of the 31XX movements. When for the first time I subsequently wore a ball-bearing movement based watch (not 3235), I thought it was broken due to the noise / vibration!

[Oxfordian]

I just wonder what the 3135 was like when it was first launched, was it perfect from the outset, doubtful, but there wasn't a social media or TRF to allow people to comment. However, over the course of its life it has been refined and improved to become the reference calibre that it is now.

The 3235 will have its faults at the beginning but it will go through the same process and no doubt be just as successful over the course of its life.

As others have said the 3235 is very much an infant just starting out on its journey, the 3135 is the mature movement, all sorted and refined.

[007_Omega]

Love some of the comments about the 3235 improvements, especially the supposed 10x as much shock resistance.

People on this forum have put the 3135 movement through the ringer and it has lasted decades. I seriously doubt there are any tangible benefits of "increased" shock resistance.

The watch industry constantly has to come up with upgrades but the reality is that many aspects of these watches have already been near perfected and the improvements are the definition of luxurious, as they are really not necessary.

The increased power reserve is definitely noteworthy. As I've stated before, I find Rolex watches in my experience to have very poor winding efficiency. The extra hours can really come in handy. As far as the anti-magnetic features, in theory I can see a benefit for those dealing with serious gauss. I have had 0 issues with the modern 3135 and magnetism but I'm sure they could be magnetized.


EDIT: The comments about the 3235 winding noise and less smooth winding of the crown would be concerning to me. Part of the beauty of the 3135 is the refinement. Love the winding action and how silent it is. I am wearing an 8400 Master Co-Axial movement right now and I cannot hear the rotor at all and the ticking of the watch is virtually not there. Little refinements like this help justify the cost.

[LOWERCASE GUY]

Originally Posted by 007_Omega

Love some of the comments about the 3235 improvements, especially the supposed 10x as much shock resistance.

People on this forum have put the 3135 movement through the ringer and it has lasted decades. I seriously doubt there are any tangible benefits of "increased" shock resistance.

The watch industry constantly has to come up with upgrades but the reality is that many aspects of these watches have already been near perfected and the improvements are the definition of luxurious, as they are really not necessary.

The increased power reserve is definitely noteworthy. As I've stated before, I find Rolex watches in my experience to have very poor winding efficiency. The extra hours can really come in handy. As far as the anti-magnetic features, in theory I can see a benefit for those dealing with serious gauss. I have had 0 issues with the modern 3135 and magnetism but I'm sure they could be magnetized.


EDIT: The comments about the 3235 winding noise and less smooth winding of the crown would be concerning to me. Part of the beauty of the 3135 is the refinement. Love the winding action and how silent it is. I am wearing an 8400 Master Co-Axial movement right now and I cannot hear the rotor at all and the ticking of the watch is virtually not there. Little refinements like this help justify the cost.

Loved the comments that much you didn't bother reading the rest of the thread. Cool

[JoseR]

My Air King has the 3131 and it's smooth as butter to wind and the rotor bearing is quiet and runs very accurate. My DJ41 with the 3235 winds rougher and the rotor bearings sound is kind of loud compared to the AK.. Love both and both are pretty accurate but you can really feel and hear the difference between both.

[maxbelg]

I found these comments from a watchmaker interesting:

Hi, I've taken two apart so far. There's a whole lot of improvements on the 31XX...

Main ones are:

- All three hands synced. On the 31 there's two power-trains, one for hour/minute hand, one gear-train for the timekeeping which contains the seconds wheel. Because of slack in the minute pinion the minute hand is slightly lagging behind the seconds hand. This is eliminated on the 32XX as all hands are under tension on the same gear-train, perfectly synced.

- Longer power reserve, 70+ hours thanks to longer mainspring and a higher barrel with thinner walls. Mainspring is not removable, complete barrel and mainspring is always replaced at service.

- Beautifully finished everywhere, as good as machine finishing allows. No wire springs anymore, as you noted.

- Amagnetic, even more than the milgauss watch which makes that movement and model moot...

- Chronergy escapement, uses less energy and components of nickel-phosphor.

- The most efficient winding system of all Rolex movements.

- Expected service intervals is now 10 years of normal use.

- Ready for the future... There is a "ghost" jewel in the train bridge, the rightmost one on the picture. Its near the center wheel and would allow a wheel/pinion with lots of power to reach the dial side, to build functions on... In the current movements the jewel is empty and unused.

- Dials don't use dial-feet anymore that can snap off. They are friction fitted, like the ladies movements always had.

- Setting mechanism uses a vertical clutch, and it should now be impossible for it to "stick" like the 31XX can, when two wheel teeth hit eachother dead on.

- The setting wheel post weakness on the 31 is eliminated completely too. The 31 can easily be repaired if you have the tool for it, so its not as big a deal as some have made out on the internet.

- Setting the date by quickset can be done 24hrs a day without any risk of damage whatsoever.

- Balance staff replacement without riveting, its now friction fitted.


This was a good read too. and especially this ;-) :

The date setting mechanism and also day-date mechanism is now completely "fool proof". There is a way you can damage your date wheel on the 3135 by manipulating it around midnight (I can tell you how if you like... :) But thats completely gone now.

There's other stuff as well, like the construction of the balance/staff and the complete omittance of wire springs, new materials etc. The average Rolex owner is not interested in horology though so it's a bit "pearls before swine" but, for those of us who bother with it it certainly is rewarding. The 31XX is an epic movement that has served for over 30 years now... not easy to improve on but they managed!

[csaltphoto]

Originally Posted by maxbelg

I found these comments from a watchmaker interesting:

Hi, I've taken two apart so far. There's a whole lot of improvements on the 31XX...

Main ones are:

- All three hands synced. On the 31 there's two power-trains, one for hour/minute hand, one gear-train for the timekeeping which contains the seconds wheel. Because of slack in the minute pinion the minute hand is slightly lagging behind the seconds hand. This is eliminated on the 32XX as all hands are under tension on the same gear-train, perfectly synced.

I'm geeky enough about this stuff to find this significant. I hate it when the seconds hand hits the 12 and the minute hand doesn't line up appropriately. I've managed to get my sub hand/gear slack to where the line up is mostly right but it never made sense to me in a 8K+ watch why Rolex couldn't nail this; considering that accuracy is one of their main marketing features in a mechanical watch.

[Psmith]

Originally Posted by maxbelg

I found these comments from a watchmaker interesting:

Hi, I've taken two apart so far. There's a whole lot of improvements on the 31XX...

Main ones are:

- All three hands synced. On the 31 there's two power-trains, one for hour/minute hand, one gear-train for the timekeeping which contains the seconds wheel. Because of slack in the minute pinion the minute hand is slightly lagging behind the seconds hand. This is eliminated on the 32XX as all hands are under tension on the same gear-train, perfectly synced.

- Longer power reserve, 70+ hours thanks to longer mainspring and a higher barrel with thinner walls. Mainspring is not removable, complete barrel and mainspring is always replaced at service.

- Beautifully finished everywhere, as good as machine finishing allows. No wire springs anymore, as you noted.

- Amagnetic, even more than the milgauss watch which makes that movement and model moot...

- Chronergy escapement, uses less energy and components of nickel-phosphor.

- The most efficient winding system of all Rolex movements.

- Expected service intervals is now 10 years of normal use.

- Ready for the future... There is a "ghost" jewel in the train bridge, the rightmost one on the picture. Its near the center wheel and would allow a wheel/pinion with lots of power to reach the dial side, to build functions on... In the current movements the jewel is empty and unused.

- Dials don't use dial-feet anymore that can snap off. They are friction fitted, like the ladies movements always had.

- Setting mechanism uses a vertical clutch, and it should now be impossible for it to "stick" like the 31XX can, when two wheel teeth hit eachother dead on.

- The setting wheel post weakness on the 31 is eliminated completely too. The 31 can easily be repaired if you have the tool for it, so its not as big a deal as some have made out on the internet.

- Setting the date by quickset can be done 24hrs a day without any risk of damage whatsoever.

- Balance staff replacement without riveting, its now friction fitted.


This was a good read too. and especially this ;-) :

The date setting mechanism and also day-date mechanism is now completely "fool proof". There is a way you can damage your date wheel on the 3135 by manipulating it around midnight (I can tell you how if you like... :) But thats completely gone now.

There's other stuff as well, like the construction of the balance/staff and the complete omittance of wire springs, new materials etc. The average Rolex owner is not interested in horology though so it's a bit "pearls before swine" but, for those of us who bother with it it certainly is rewarding. The 31XX is an epic movement that has served for over 30 years now... not easy to improve on but they managed!

That was interesting, thanks

I'm fairly confident that Rolex SA know their way around a movement and any initial kinks will be worked out. Personally I like a long power reserve and it's not as though this is some new innovation. My Blancpain FF has 120 hr p/r and is quiet, 'buttery smooth' to wind and wonderfully accurate.

[Oxfordian]

Originally Posted by Psmith

That was interesting, thanks

I'm fairly confident that Rolex SA know their way around a movement and any initial kinks will be worked out. Personally I like a long power reserve and it's not as though this is some new innovation. My Blancpain FF has 120 hr p/r and is quiet, 'buttery smooth' to wind and wonderfully accurate.

I am sure that you are correct, there are always a few issues when introducing something new and although manufacturers spend a huge amount of time and money testing products before they are introduced it is only when the general public get their hands on the products and start to use and abuse them that flaws are revealed, you only have to look at the number of recalls in the car industry to see that.

Sure the 3235 will have a hiccup here and there but it will be in Rolex watches for many many years to come.

[joli160]

The comment from Bas about the many 32XX needing a complete overhaul is proof that perhaps Rolex launched the new series too soon.
It’s also pitiful that the micro ball bearings cannot be replaced but require a complete new weight.

All in all it’s not worth to upgrade to a new movement for that reason alone if you value a trouble free and robust experience is what I conclude from the Tech experts here.

[maxbelg]

Originally Posted by joli160

.......It’s also pitiful that the micro ball bearings cannot be replaced but require a complete new weight.........

The ceramic ball bearings should last forever I’d think, but it‘s true that the whole rotor will need to be replaced if there were an issue. I do think it‘s funny so many people complained about the archaic Rolex rotor without ball bearings for so long though....

[Rashid.bk]

Originally Posted by maxbelg

I found these comments from a watchmaker interesting:

Hi, I've taken two apart so far. There's a whole lot of improvements on the 31XX...

Main ones are:

- All three hands synced. On the 31 there's two power-trains, one for hour/minute hand, one gear-train for the timekeeping which contains the seconds wheel. Because of slack in the minute pinion the minute hand is slightly lagging behind the seconds hand. This is eliminated on the 32XX as all hands are under tension on the same gear-train, perfectly synced.

- Longer power reserve, 70+ hours thanks to longer mainspring and a higher barrel with thinner walls. Mainspring is not removable, complete barrel and mainspring is always replaced at service.

- Beautifully finished everywhere, as good as machine finishing allows. No wire springs anymore, as you noted.

- Amagnetic, even more than the milgauss watch which makes that movement and model moot...

- Chronergy escapement, uses less energy and components of nickel-phosphor.

- The most efficient winding system of all Rolex movements.

- Expected service intervals is now 10 years of normal use.

- Ready for the future... There is a "ghost" jewel in the train bridge, the rightmost one on the picture. Its near the center wheel and would allow a wheel/pinion with lots of power to reach the dial side, to build functions on... In the current movements the jewel is empty and unused.

- Dials don't use dial-feet anymore that can snap off. They are friction fitted, like the ladies movements always had.

- Setting mechanism uses a vertical clutch, and it should now be impossible for it to "stick" like the 31XX can, when two wheel teeth hit eachother dead on.

- The setting wheel post weakness on the 31 is eliminated completely too. The 31 can easily be repaired if you have the tool for it, so its not as big a deal as some have made out on the internet.

- Setting the date by quickset can be done 24hrs a day without any risk of damage whatsoever.

- Balance staff replacement without riveting, its now friction fitted.


This was a good read too. and especially this ;-) :

The date setting mechanism and also day-date mechanism is now completely "fool proof". There is a way you can damage your date wheel on the 3135 by manipulating it around midnight (I can tell you how if you like... :) But thats completely gone now.

There's other stuff as well, like the construction of the balance/staff and the complete omittance of wire springs, new materials etc. The average Rolex owner is not interested in horology though so it's a bit "pearls before swine" but, for those of us who bother with it it certainly is rewarding. The 31XX is an epic movement that has served for over 30 years now... not easy to improve on but they managed!

So much great information. Thank you for posting, would like to read more about these details. It’s just common sense to me, logical, that a billion dollar successful and super slow to evolve company like Rolex would wait and spend so much on development of an inferior movement.
Every data point we have on Rolex improvements over these years shows that they are investing heavily in making a product that is durable, dependable and seemingly ageless.

I’m surprised to read about the 3235 amagnetic properties, something I’m surprised Rolex isn’t marketing at all, likely because it would render the Milguass and all it’s marketing immediately obsolete in the amagnetic realm, something Omega has obliterated Rolex in.

I am confident that the 3235 will prove itself to be worthy of the Rolex name and heritage in reliable time keeping.
My Deepsea went in for warranty work by the way so I’m speaking as a person who has bad 3235 experience, but I am also mature enough to understand that once the early bugs are worked out, the 3235 will prove itself. And of note, is that most of these early issues are nothing more than issues with lubrication during assembly, not a mechanical defect.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by Rashid.bk

And of note, is that most of these early issues are nothing more than issues with lubrication during assembly, not a mechanical defect.

That's the totally bonkers part about it.

The question remains. How come an organization like Rolex operating on the level that they are can't get the most fundamental lube requirements right, for something they designed and manufacture in it's entirety under their very own roof????

As much as I respect the brand, this aspect of the production of the 3235 movement absolutely leaves me dumbfounded
It makes me wonder if there's somebody working on the line that's deliberately not putting a drop of lube on a particular spot just to screw the company over

This lube issue has been ongoing with no sign yet of it being rectified at the source
We on this forum, are representative of a very small sector of the watch market and it keeps cropping up.
I wonder how many other people across the broader consumer base are having timekeeping problems with these movements that we aren't hearing about.
The number is possibly quite staggering when all things are considered

[Rashid.bk]

Originally Posted by Dirt

That's the totally bonkers part about it.

The question remains. How come an organization like Rolex operating on the level that they are can't get the most fundamental lube requirements right, for something they designed and manufacture in it's entirety under their very own roof????

As much as I respect the brand, this aspect of the production of the 3235 movement absolutely leaves me dumbfounded
It makes me wonder if there's somebody working on the line that's deliberately not putting a drop of lube on a particular spot just to screw the company over

This lube issue has been ongoing with no sign yet of it being rectified at the source
We on this forum, are representative of a very small sector of the watch market and it keeps cropping up.
I wonder how many other people across the broader consumer base are having timekeeping problems with these movements that we aren't hearing about.
The number is possibly quite staggering when all things are considered

Not bonkers at all really. It happens in every industry. The 2020 1st year Supra had a few issues, 2nd gen solved them.
The latest F8x series M cars had a couple issues for the first two years, by year six, the car was perfect. It happens in many fields, because once the public gets its hands on something, they find the problems.

Look at all the refinements and improvements the 3135 underwent over its 40 plus years, it’s only been two years for the 32xx, we have decades to go.

[schoolboy]

Maybe Rolex will bring back the 3135 in the future like omega did with the 321 !

And all of our 36mm Datejusts will blow up in value

Haha jk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Nikrnic]

I had one but now have the new DJ41 for a 22 mos. now with the 3235 mvmt. (no problems yet) I do love the newer version design and size, actual 39.8mm. The power reserve is nice but I rotate too much to notice the benefit and have to reset it anyway and I'm not crazy about the reverse setting direction but o well.. I agree the 3130 & 35 are great mvmts. I have two Subs and am not going to jump on any frenzied bandwagon for the new mvmt. when it finally happens.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Rashid.bk]

Every thing sounded nice and sincere until the need to throw shade at the 3235. Sad, that the real point of the post was at the end.

In thirty plus years, there will be someone saying:
"I have a Datejust of almost 32 years with a 3235 movement, and I say fantastic because my Datejust is at -0.16666666 seconds a day, or what is the same, -5 seconds a month.
With these figures, I don't need a 3735 (whatever the new movement will be)."

It's all cyclic, it's naive to assume that the pinnacle of Rolex watch movements has come and gone with a 3135. The 3135 is a great movement and we only know this because it has been proven over decades. Well in several decades, I suspect the 3235 will also prove itself.

It's fascinating sometimes that there is a need among some here to continuously justify their choice by "humbly/slyly" belittling or attacking something else, usually something to do with a modern Rolex. I really believe that if you tried reeeeeeeally hard you could actually enjoy your choice in whatever Rolex product you like without having to say something negative about something else.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by Rashid.bk

Every thing sounded nice and sincere until the need to throw shade at the 3235. Sad, that the real point of the post was at the end.

In thirty plus years, there will be someone saying:
"I have a Datejust of almost 32 years with a 3235 movement, and I say fantastic because my Datejust is at -0.16666666 seconds a day, or what is the same, -5 seconds a month.
With these figures, I don't need a 3735 (whatever the new movement will be)."

It's all cyclic, it's naive to assume that the pinnacle of Rolex watch movements has come and gone with a 3135. The 3135 is a great movement and we only know this because it has been proven over decades. Well in several decades, I suspect the 3235 will also prove itself.

It's fascinating sometimes that there is a need among some here to continuously justify their choice by "humbly/slyly" belittling or attacking something else, usually something to do with a modern Rolex. I really believe that if you tried reeeeeeeally hard you could actually enjoy your choice in whatever Rolex product you like without having to say something negative about something else.

The only criticism the 32xx movement draws should be directed to Rolex themselves.
After all it's Rolex that's wholly responsible.

[maxbelg]

Originally Posted by Rashid.bk

Every thing sounded nice and sincere until the need to throw shade at the 3235...........It's fascinating sometimes that there is a need among some here to continuously justify their choice by "humbly/slyly" belittling or attacking something else.........

I couldn't agree more, except that's it often not humbly or slyly at all . I can't understand either why one has to justify your own personal choice by criticising or belittling alternatives . Makes me think of a Deepsea thread: Half posted how great it fits/is and the other half how stupidly big/uncomfortable they are. (I love mine but realise it's not for everyone)

We're all different, which is why it's great that Rolex makes different styles, sizes and movements. What I like to read is technical info, especially from watchmakers on the movements, but these posts are heavily diluted in the incoming/availability/can I swim with my Sub/which should I buy or keep/ type posts.....

[TswaneNguni]

https://quillandpad.com/2019/11/19/w...ich-is-better/

"The 3235 is a great movement,there is no denying that .
But its speed and looks cant compare with the strength and intelligence of its older brother.
Strength and intelligence are the qualities of a great king,
thus for me the 3135 reigns supreme."

Ashton Tracey
Quail + Pad
April 2018, Horological Journal .

[Henrimontgomery]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

https://quillandpad.com/2019/11/19/w...ich-is-better/

"The 3235 is a great movement,there is no denying that .
But its speed and looks cant compare with the strength and intelligence of its older brother.
Strength and intelligence are the qualities of a great king,
thus for me the 3135 reigns supreme."

Ashton Tracey
Quail + Pad
April 2018, Horological Journal .

Interesting read, especially about the replacements parts.

Just like phones, who went from battery you could swap to glued components, forcing you to go to the official manufacturer and replaces wholes parts instead of a singular piece when it fails.