Are you upset with everything Rolex?

[nachopc]

Originally Posted by Instant_Pharma

I’m more disappointed in the waitlists mess and Rolex not meeting consumer demand for certain products. I don’t feel as if purchasing a Rolex can represent an achievement or milestone in your life. Or even choosing the best tool for the job. It’s become some
Kind of bizarre hype monster that is self perpetuating and only getting worse. How many of our grandparents walked in and said. I want a sub or a GMT..and just got one. Was this what Hans Wilsdorf envisioned? I’m not sure

I can’t agree more with you, this is ridiculous and I own 90% of the sought after models but the grey prices......it’s trafficking and Rolex in a way since 2017 should have manage a way to control this outcome to grey hands.


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[watchwatcher]

Am I upset? Gosh, no. Why would I be upset?

When I got into this hobby about 20+ years ago, I just wanted a nice watch. Somehow, I ended up with a bunch of nice watches.

If something changes, though, I'll be sure to dump them all and move on to the next thing. I really feel life is too short to be unhappy any one thing.

[RyanJ]

Originally Posted by sgwatchguy

In short, Rolex seems to have found the formula. They’ve taken a lesson from the way in which Hermès have managed to build and sustain a halo and demand over a long period of time, but at a massive scale.

But all this is well documented.

The Swatch group to my knowledge is way smaller than $30bn - closer to $8bn. Financially, their best years are behind them.

You might be right about the swatch group. I was reading some figures but they may have been older numbers for sure

[FTX I]

I'm not upset at all. Quite the opposite. They've just released two new black Subs in SS so I could not be happier. Only problem now is the hard to get game that I won't play but that's a different story.

[cfracing]

Upset might be too strong a word but I think buying a nice, expensive item should be a pleasurable experience. Rolex has taken all the joy out of buying a nice watch for me independent of how I actually feel about their offerings, which isn’t very positive either.

[fsprow]

Perhaps the "MSRP only" folks on the Forum would be pleased if Rolex just did a survey of market (reseller) prices each quarter and set the MSRP to match it. Would that make everyone happy?

[drfrankenstein]

Originally Posted by fsprow

Perhaps the "MSRP only" folks on the Forum would be pleased if Rolex just did a survey of market (reseller) prices each quarter and set the MSRP to match it. Would that make everyone happy?

What if there was a reseller site like StockX where there was complete transparency about what watches were actually being sold for?

[Rori]

Originally Posted by sgwatchguy

So there’s a largish community that is upset at the changes to the Sub.
How it’s dimensions are changing “for the worse”.
How’s it going to be “perpetually unavailable”.
How Rolex is “stuck in the mud”.
How they’ve “lost the plot”.
How they don’t “care about the loyal customers”.
The “social media hype”.
The “endless chatter about investments”.

And that’s just from a days worth of posts.

You’re right to be upset. Pissed off even.

But the target of your disappointment is not Rolex. Not entirely at least.

It’s the insipid uninspiring and clueless “every other luxury watch” brand, and their CEO’s and marketing departments. The distance Rolex has opened and continues to increase, is credit to them and to be blamed on the product that every other company continues to put out in volumes grossly over demand, unmatched to what the market desires, unable to go from creating awareness > interest > demand > sales.

Rolex has no special tools available at their disposal that other brands do not.

Rolex has heritage. So do Omega, Breitling, JLC, Panerai, VC (enough with the trinity BS) and others. But what do they do with it?

Rolex has marketing muscle. So do the Swatch, Richemont, LVMH etc. And how do they use that muscle?

Rolex has distribution. Yeah, cos the product sells and every potential AD wants a piece of that. But so do all other brands.

Even Hodinkee knows how to play the game better (ie $6k pos travel clock).

There is a market for a compelling alternative to a GMT or Daytona or Sub from another brand. If only they could deliver.

So the issue with Rolex is that while they can’t seem to do anything wrong, and their lead grows - there seems to be no compelling alternative from any other brand and no attempts to change the narrative.

And so it shall remain for the foreseeable future.

I’m not upset at what Rolex are doing. And I’d be glad to spend my money on another brand if they had delivered a compelling SS luxury sports watch product.

Thanks for reading.

Disappointment is a big word and a big sentiment to be felt for anything we can buy with money.
There will always be naggers nagging about everything and it’s ok.
We still hear watch lovers nagging about the maxi case of the just replaced sub, about its ceramic bezel and about how awful was that Rolex move from aluminum to ceramic.
Rolex brought the old proportions back to the sub and yet, we hear watch lovers nagging about that!
On the other side of the spectrum, some are disappointed because the changes to the sub are subtle!!! Do we expect or wish Rolex makes drastic changes to their design particularly to one of their icons?!
Nagging will never end really.
I love Rolex for its history, design language. I like it for making many iconic models that have become like trademarks.
I respect their decision, buy the model I like and ignore those who I don’t.
When it comes to the unavailability issue and that of grey market, well, that’s not Rolex fault, it’s the fault of those who pay over MSRP.


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[onlyonerolly]

Nope. Rolex make great product. Some ADs however leave much to be desired.

[904VT]

You are right that while Rolex is doing everything right, the current situation may be more about how most every other manufacture is doing everything wrong. Endless model variations, depreciation walking out the door, no resale market, and no identity are problems other brands have that are solely their own doing.

[904VT]

Originally Posted by Instant_Pharma

I’m more disappointed in the waitlists mess and Rolex not meeting consumer demand for certain products. I don’t feel as if purchasing a Rolex can represent an achievement or milestone in your life. Or even choosing the best tool for the job. It’s become some
Kind of bizarre hype monster that is self perpetuating and only getting worse. How many of our grandparents walked in and said. I want a sub or a GMT..and just got one. Was this what Hans Wilsdorf envisioned? I’m not sure

This may be exactly what he envisioned. Recall the marketing ploy of swimming across the English Channel? Mercedes Gleitze wearing her Oyster. The resulting dual meaning Mercedes hand on current dive watches.

It's frustrating not be able to get a Sub, GMT Master or Daytona in SS I get that. But there are so many other awesome watches from Rolex that you can get that will perform the same functions.

[badams118]

Rolex can do Rolex things because they are a not for profit. Scarcity started as affluence created many more customers in Asia.

[NYG1121]

Originally Posted by badams118

Rolex can do Rolex things because they are a not for profit. Scarcity started as affluence created many more customers in Asia.

They are a non-profit?

[Sandpit]

The non-profit thing is a bit of nonsense. They are defined as a charitable organization. It doesn’t mean they don’t make profit.

What it does mean though is they have at their disposal more free cash than any other brand to spend on marketing.

[badams118]

Originally Posted by NYG1121

They are a non-profit?

Yes. All their profit either gets reinvested or goes to charity.

From Wiki:

..In 1919 Wilsdorf left England due to wartime taxes levied on luxury imports as well as to export duties on the silver and gold used for the watch cases driving costs too high and moved the company to Geneva, Switzerland, where it was established as the Rolex Watch Company. Its name was later changed to Montres Rolex, SA and finally Rolex, SA. Upon the death of his wife in 1944, Wilsdorf established the Hans Wilsdorf Foundation, a private trust, in which he left all of his Rolex shares, making sure that some of the company's income would go to charity. Wilsdorf died in 1960; since then, the trust has owned and run the company. Rolex SA is owned by the private Hans Wilsdorf Foundation, which is registered as a charity and does not pay corporate income taxes..

[Sandpit]

So it’s a tax dodge

[badams118]

Originally Posted by Sandpit

The non-profit thing is a bit of nonsense. They are defined as a charitable organization. It doesn’t mean they don’t make profit.

What it does mean though is they have at their disposal more free cash than any other brand to spend on marketing.

It's not nonsense. It's also not marketing. It allows them to invest huge amounts into things like metallurgy, innovation, & engineering that their for profit competitors cannot. This allows them to further increase margins, and reinvest even more in their product.

[badams118]

Originally Posted by Sandpit

So it’s a tax dodge

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

[Sandpit]

Originally Posted by badams118

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

I live in an income tax free environment. I have no qualms with it

[mmaggi]

Not upset. Disappointed at what Rolex has become which is desired by too many. And because of that we see used watches with prices greater than their original MSRP within a year or 2. It's ridiculous.

Like I said: Time to love a DJ, OP and EXPII or start loving Omega, Tudor & Breitling.

[Robf52]

Originally Posted by TimeAZ

Rolex excels in one very key area: execution of fit and form. Specifically, they offer some of the best bracelets and the ease of a tool-less adjustment system, very useful stuff. They also seem to understand the importance of keeping the watch thin and proportioned so that the time-piece is nicely wearable. Other than that, I find the brand to suffer from the short falls of being over-hyped, over-rated, and over-priced.

Agree that Rolex excels in quality of materials, design and performance. They have elevated the "brand" to not only best of breed, but among top best "brand" overall worldwide. If they are over-hyped, overrated and overpriced, it's because they've earned it and it's the price of success. Everyone has an opinion good and bad on the new releases, but my opinion is I'm on board with what they are doing and how they are doing it.

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by Hollie_Rollie

Imo there are a lot of other compelling releases from other brands which are of higher Caliber than Rolex’s releases. They just don’t make it on to most people’s radar bc you can’t buy it at msrp and sell it for triple what you paid

I’m starting to like the watches that only those who know...know. And those who don’t know are really none the wiser

Bingo. There is a larger and just as significant world of horological brands to own besides Rolex. Rolex has become the pedestrian default of a "nice watch". That label is not necessarily a desirable or important to many.

[Hollie_Rollie]

Originally Posted by Mystro

Bingo. There is a larger and just as significant world of horological brands to own besides Rolex. Rolex has become the pedestrian default of a "nice watch". That label is not necessarily a desirable or important to many.

It almost feels like wearing a Rolex for most is synonymous with tucking your shirt in the front to purposely display your Hermès, Fendi, Gucci, or salvatore ferragamo belt buckle ... you know the type

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by Hollie_Rollie

It almost feels like wearing a Rolex for most is synonymous with tucking your shirt in the front to purposely display your Hermès, Fendi, Gucci, or salvatore ferragamo belt buckle ... you know the type

OMG.... I so relate to this on my last family vacation at WDW in Orlando in Feb. Being a avid watch spotter I noticed a "Rolex trend" compared to other nice watch owners.

[Burlington]

Plenty of other incredible steel sports watches out there.

Just not so many with the strong pre-owned value which ultimately is king for many.

[AK797]

As I wrote on another thread and countless times over the years the only day that has mattered in the last twenty has been June 23 2016. On that fateful day, where the brands and their watches stood in the public perception or rather more precisely in the minds of the smart money, what we today would call Influencers, is what has made them what they are now, super hot.

And that day was the Brexit vote day which led to these Influencers basically being given free money and huge discounts on all watches in the UK and they chose the ones they wanted, Subs, Daytonas, GMTs, Nautiluses, ROs and made them red hot and spiked their prices, and they have not stopped burning since. And nothing done before or since has made any difference when set against this firestarting day, which is why all the others are still going nowhere, its all too late, the day of judgement has gone.

[zjd168]

appear that way, seemingly, people here even get upset after seeing the $value of his Rolex collection increasing too fast too much and started a thread to rant on about it :-)

[HiDive]

I like what Rolex has done and I think all the complaints are a big load of........

[nighthawk77]

Agree with you OP - most, if not all desirable SS models are impossible to find in ADs. Prospective buyers should be ripe for the taking, but no other brand seems to be able to step up to the plate.

As per your OP, this isn't the fault of Rolex, but I do think they face some problems which could end up hurting them if one of their competitors does eventually manage to step up their game. I think that there is a ceiling on the amount of people who are willing/able to spend some of the ridiculous gray prices. If availability doesn't improve from ADs then Rolex could lose some of their loyal fan base and it only takes a change in trend or a drop in the economy for Rolex to also lose those on the hype train.

For me I have a couple of models which I'm very happy with. Sure there are other Rolex models I'd love to add to my collection, but I have no interest in playing the waiting game and there are other brands I'm happy to also own. Last week I picked up a new Speedy Pro, and whilst there's a few Rolex models I'd have preferred over this, I can't even see any in store as there's none available. I can't even stop by the AD without an appointment anymore (COVID) and I think making an appointment to visit a store where I am unable to see the watches I'm interested in is a waste of time.

[904VT]

Originally Posted by AK797

As I wrote on another thread and countless times over the years the only day that has mattered in the last twenty has been June 23 2016. On that fateful day, where the brands and their watches stood in the public perception or rather more precisely in the minds of the smart money, what we today would call Influencers, is what has made them what they are now, super hot.

And that day was the Brexit vote day which led to these Influencers basically being given free money and huge discounts on all watches in the UK and they chose the ones they wanted, Subs, Daytonas, GMTs, Nautiluses, ROs and made them red hot and spiked their prices, and they have not stopped burning since. And nothing done before or since has made any difference when set against this firestarting day, which is why all the others are still going nowhere, its all too late, the day of judgement has gone.

And January 15th 2015 was the catalyst. When the Swiss Franc unpegged from the Euro, Swiss companies started to be super aware of exchange rates and revenue sources. With the Swiss Franc being so strong relatively, everything exchanged back into the CHF was peanuts compared to prior. IMO many Swiss manufactures decided to play the SS Daytona game. Interesting for sure, the shifts the last 5 years. I guess Rolex and others have to keep demand from collapsing now, so they play the scarcity game. Hopefully, we'll settle on a happy medium LT.