Should Rolex be in the “Holy Trinity”

[scheneider]

different league

[DCheeta]

No way.

JLC belongs in though.

[rolexjackson]

My thought is that without Rolex none of the others would exist. What a great article

[ndrs63]

Rolex is great quality daily beater. I have 3 pieces and love them. Rolex never had the ambition to belong to HH league. Those who question this status should read more about the history of these watchmakers and learn more about the products. I don’t think there is much to debate about it


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[kans86]

I think the concept of "Holy Trinity" is outdated and no longer relevant today. Rolex is very much a league of its own. Without Rolex I doubt the "Holy Trinity" or even the Swiss watch industry can still be as they are now.

[thefollandgnat]

Putting ALS in the holy trinity of Swiss watchmaking is like annexing the Sudetenland.

[jamesbondOO7]

For me the Holy Trinity (whatever that is) would be: Rolex, Rolex and Rolex.

[daveathall]

I don't think Rolex should be in the "Holy Trinity," thats just my opinion, but if you asked people on any street in the world which are the best 3 watches made, "Rolex" would be the word mostly heard.

[Pongster]

Keep the holy trinity as is

[peterpl]

Nope. They dont belong there.

They make simple, robust watches. Most complicated being the SkyD and even then its only an annual calendar. When you actually think about the art of watchmaking and what other makers are doing/capable of doing they are far from haute horology.

Being most popular and most known brand does not equal holy trinity.

[Ichiran]

Not even close. The trinity is in a league far-away.

[1William]

The holy trinity discussion is dead in the water for me. Rolex is in a league all by themselves and the trinity comes in a distant second. Just because a watch is mass produced does not make it any worse or better than another watch depending on quality control.

[alphadweller]

As much as I love and value the brand for what it is, I think that heavily relying on robots and automation to churn out 800k pieces a year is hardly high horology. In 2020, Patek made 53K pieces, AP 40K and VC 24K. ALS only manufactured 3,800 watches and JLC 80K.

[Cru Jones]

The reference refers to historical haute horlogerie houses. Rolex is a lot of things, but it is not one of those.

More than ALS (too new) or JLC (not high enough), I've thought Breguet was worth mentioning in the discussion.

[GEO_79]

Of course Rolex should be in the Holy Trinity! Casio as well !!

[willywatch]

The holy trinity is a joke in todays watch world.Patek-VC-AP are all mass produced
watches except for a few special models.Lange are in a class by themself in terms
of hand made mass produced watches,the others are not even close.JLC are a in
between brand,not the best finish or the worst.Rolex can easily compete with most
high end brands,if we are talking about dials-cases-markers-bracelets etc etc.But
not with the finishing of their calibers.And lets face it, Grand Seiko are also better
in some aspects compared to many so called high end brands.Watchmaking has
changed so much in the last 20-30 years,that mentioning the trinity is really just
showing a lack of real knowledge about watches.

[rambo99]

actually this is the place i heard people said rolex is not even the top few watch brands the most.
and they are all rolex lovers!

[sgwatchguy]

Originally Posted by rambo99

actually this is the place i heard people said rolex is not even the top few watch brands the most.
and they are all rolex lovers!

Don’t believe everything you read here. Some will tell you Rolex runs the world

[sgwatchguy]

Originally Posted by willywatch

The holy trinity is a joke in todays watch world.Patek-VC-AP are all mass produced
watches except for a few special models.Lange are in a class by themself in terms
of hand made mass produced watches,the others are not even close.JLC are a in
between brand,not the best finish or the worst.Rolex can easily compete with most
high end brands,if we are talking about dials-cases-markers-bracelets etc etc.But
not with the finishing of their calibers.And lets face it, Grand Seiko are also better
in some aspects compared to many so called high end brands.Watchmaking has
changed so much in the last 20-30 years,that mentioning the trinity is really just
showing a lack of real knowledge about watches.

[vette boy 52]

No. Rolex manufactures a very good watch but does not have the history or even proclaim to manufacture houte horological pieces.

[J1n]

I don't think Rolex is there in terms of meeting the definition of holy yet.

But Rolex is on it's own level in terms of brand recognition and marketing.

Funny enough, a lot of people think Rolex is actually in the trinity. A few of my friends thought the trinity was AP, PP, and Rolex. lol

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by J1n

I don't think Rolex is there in terms of meeting the definition of holy yet.

But Rolex is on it's own level in terms of brand recognition and marketing.

Funny enough, a lot of people think Rolex is actually in the trinity. A few of my friends thought the trinity was AP, PP, and Rolex. lol

That's awesome. I love how under the radar VC is. There just isn't many out there to hold but to compare one to a Rolex is pretty funny and shows that they haven't held them side by side.

[rambo99]

Originally Posted by EEpro

That's awesome. I love how under the radar VC is. There just isn't many out there to hold but to compare one to a Rolex is pretty funny and shows that they haven't held them side by side.

i agree the finishing on the VC is way better than a rolex, but which is something you can only see within 1 feet range. Rolex is smart, they just make their watches to look like they have 95% level of finishing as VC, PP and AP when you see it at 5 feet range or outside. when you wear a rolex and walk down the street, other people will have a perception that your rolex is as good as the most beautiful watches in the world.

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by rambo99

i agree the finishing on the VC is way better than a rolex, but which is something you can only see within 1 feet range. Rolex is smart, they just make their watches to look like they have 95% level of finishing as VC, PP and AP when you see it at 5 feet range or outside. when you wear a rolex and walk down the street, other people will have a perception that your rolex is as good as the most beautiful watches in the world.

Absolutely. They are well made and pure marketing genius. They spent just the right amount of money to get the perception they needed and spent the rest on marketing and philanthropy. You don't have to be within 1 foot though. Probably arms length

[braveheart09]

why do we bother to discuss the three ‘premiun brands’ is it beacuse of quality? extricacies? price? then why is richard mille or urwerk not mentioned? i mean, what are the standards that set the three top most secluded from the rest. by the way, who on earth coined this expression ‘holy trinity’ into the wolrd of horology? actually, these are sacred terminologies in Catholism.


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[Mij]

Nope also does it really matter if it is , love the fact it's a great watch that you can wear for pretty much anything

[Driver8]

The Holy Trinity thing is a bit outdated now, but as far as I remember the original "criteria" was along the lines of the companies needing to have been in continuous, unbroken production for 'a long time', and that all they've ever produced is very high end timepieces. This is why neither ALS (they ceased operation after WWII only to be reborn years later), nor JLC (they used to be just a movement maker, not a watchmaker per se) is amongst them. Rolex isn't there because they simply never were (nor are they still) a haute horology company. There stock-in-trade was robust and reliable tool watches for many many years. And even now they still don't have the ultra-high-end finishing, and nor IMO do they need to.

Personally I think the Holy Trinity thing is all well and good, and the three brands that make it up are fully deserving of it, given the criteria (although I do still have a slight issue with AP STILL using a 3rd party chrono module in their ROOs). But likewise I don't see any need for Rolex or indeed any other brand to aspire to be part of it in any way. At the end of the day it is what it is, and it means absolutely nothing in terms of anything tangible.

[daOnlyBG]

Originally Posted by poweredbyjae

nope. Rolex imo is on an island by themselves.

If there was a replacement, i'd swap vacheron with als.

100%

Originally Posted by kieselguhr

it doesn’t need to be.

101%

[CFR]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

The reference refers to historical haute horlogerie houses. Rolex is a lot of things, but it is not one of those.

More than ALS (too new) or JLC (not high enough), I've thought Breguet was worth mentioning in the discussion.

Originally Posted by Driver8

The Holy Trinity thing is a bit outdated now, but as far as I remember the original "criteria" was along the lines of the companies needing to have been in continuous, unbroken production for 'a long time', and that all they've ever produced is very high end timepieces. This is why neither ALS (they ceased operation after WWII only to be reborn years later), nor JLC (they used to be just a movement maker, not a watchmaker per se) is amongst them. Rolex isn't there because they simply never were (nor are they still) a haute horology company. There stock-in-trade was robust and reliable tool watches for many many years. And even now they still don't have the ultra-high-end finishing, and nor IMO do they need to.

Personally I think the Holy Trinity thing is all well and good, and the three brands that make it up are fully deserving of it, given the criteria (although I do still have a slight issue with AP STILL using a 3rd party chrono module in their ROOs). But likewise I don't see any need for Rolex or indeed any other brand to aspire to be part of it in any way. At the end of the day it is what it is, and it means absolutely nothing in terms of anything tangible.

Thank you both for re-stating this. The "holy trinity" concept has a pretty narrow, historic context. One could come up with a similar concept with a slightly different definition that would include companies like Rolex, Lange, etc., promote that definition on social media, and see if it sticks.

[Rexplorer214270]

ALS is also not Swiss. If we are opening up this then wouldn't it make sense to add Grand Seiko?