The Greys are the New AD's

[Son Goku]

Originally Posted by thenewrick

Grey's don't get new stuff only used. Very important to always remember that.

It may look to be in excellent condition but it's always used. If that doesn't matter to you that's cool.

You have no idea what you’re talking about. Greys get brand new fully stickered watches all the time.

[1995akcoop]

Originally Posted by sj24k

“Rolex generated approximately $8.5 billion (CHF 8 billion) in retail sales last year, a figure that means it holds approximately 24.9 percent of the global market for Swiss watches, compared to 22 percent in 2019.” -Robb Report

My guess is they know what they’re doing :)


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Ok.... If they made 8 billion then Greys did 100 billion.


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[fogby]

I agree with the op. For all practical purposes grey's are the AD for most. And, as 77T stated, the majority of end users buy from grey's so I think this is the perception for a lot of the public.

For me (a novice in the watch world) the grey's are extremely valuable. How else could I try on the various offerings?

And I'm not one to beg someone to sell something to me. Not worth my time and effort to buy from an AD since it's almost an hour drive to the nearest AD & I bet I'm not the only one in this position. Hard to make those requisite butt kissing visits to an AD for the privilege to buy from them.

[thenewrick]

Originally Posted by Son Goku

You have no idea what you’re talking about. Greys get brand new fully stickered watches all the time.

Nah man. You gotta do some research. All Grey inventory comes 2nd hand and is therefore used. Don’t be tricked by Grey terminology “unworn” “like new” “stickered” or whatever they try and pull. They’re all used and unverified. I admit that buying used models from Greys can be totally authentic but for lots of people they don’t want used and don’t want an expensive and personal item like a watch being unverified.

Used cars okay by me. Used clothing or jewelry.. nah.

[Son Goku]

Originally Posted by thenewrick

Nah man. You gotta do some research. All Grey inventory comes 2nd hand and is therefore used. Don’t be tricked by Grey terminology “unworn” “like new” “stickered” or whatever they try and pull. They’re all used and unverified. I admit that buying used models from Greys can be totally authentic but for lots of people they don’t want used and don’t want an expensive and personal item like a watch being unverified.

Used cars okay by me. Used clothing or jewelry.. nah.

You do realize that Greys also have a reputation to maintain right? If a reputable Grey is saying a watch is unworn or new that’s what it is. You’re narrowly defining “new” as only being straight from an AD, which is silly. Vast majority of people would consider a fully stickered, unworn watch as being new. Hell most ADs won’t even let you walk out with the stickers on

Again you don’t know what you’re talking about.

[thenewrick]

We agree to disagree. New to me is verified authentic and no previous owners. If new to you means previous owners through a 2ndary vendor with a 2nd vendor “guarantee” that’s on you.

[sj24k]

Originally Posted by 1995akcoop

Ok.... If they made 8 billion then Greys did 100 billion.


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According to Boston Consulting Group, the luxury second-hand watch market is now worth nearly 16 billion euros per year. (Oct. 2020)

(obviously there are a lot of factors that go into that number as well as the definition of "second-hand" as well as "sale price" vs. "export price," etc. but that covers most of the larger global resellers and many of the mid sized. anyway, just sharing as i thought it was pretty interesting. most agree that was a larger number than expected thanks to the pandemic.)

[Rmoor]

I purchased an AP about 4 years ago that came directly from a AP AD to the grey dealer. Still happens to this day for every brand.

Originally Posted by thenewrick

Grey's don't get new stuff only used. Very important to always remember that.

It may look to be in excellent condition but it's always used. If that doesn't matter to you that's cool.

[thenewrick]

Originally Posted by Rmoor

I purchased an AP about 4 years ago that came directly from a AP AD to the grey dealer. Still happens to this day for every brand.

Not saying it can’t happen but it’s clearly against Rolexes rules and would get the AD status removed if they were caught. And those models would have been acquired in a really sketchy way. No bueno for me!

[Hollie_Rollie]

Originally Posted by thenewrick

Grey’s are for desperados. Never buying used through middle man myself!

Exactly. You’re most likely buying a misrepresented, polished example bought at retail and sold to you for 2-3x msrp. You’re getting laughed at to the bank.


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[sj24k]

OMG. This is just cracking me up.

OP is 100% correct and expressing a verifiable fact. If you want to see and try on a variety of Rolexes in person, a grey dealer is the way to do it, and an AD is not. Any argument to the contrary is ridiculous.

And anyone who has made purchases from a trusted reseller can 100% verify that new watches are definitely available. Sure, technically they have changed hands to get from one place to the other, but they are just as new as if your friend went in and bought it and then drove it to your house and sold it to you. Not polished, not worn, not messed with in any way. And the warranty travels with the watch. Of course there are NOS watches that are exceptions to this, and used watches, and falsely advertised ones too, but that’s not what we’re talking about. So if you want to die on the hill of “not technically new,” then that’s your prerogative. But many trusted resellers do indeed sell plenty of watches that are, by every meaningful measure, new.

Finally, the forces of supply and demand, and choosing to pay a premium to get any watch you want whenever you want it is the definition of free market capitalism. And I for one feel very fortunate to be able to make those decisions for myself based on my desires and my means.

Ok, this time I’m really out.


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[Francist]

Sad truth.

[Gab27]

Originally Posted by sj24k

OMG. This is just cracking me up.

OP is 100% correct and expressing a verifiable fact. If you want to see and try on a variety of Rolexes in person, a grey dealer is the way to do it, and an AD is not. Any argument to the contrary is ridiculous.

And anyone who has made purchases from a trusted reseller can 100% verify that new watches are definitely available. Sure, technically they have changed hands to get from one place to the other, but they are just as new as if your friend went in and bought it and then drove it to your house and sold it to you. Not polished, not worn, not messed with in any way. And the warranty travels with the watch. Of course there are NOS watches that are exceptions to this, and used watches, and falsely advertised ones too, but that’s not what we’re talking about. So if you want to die on the hill of “not technically new,” then that’s your prerogative. But many trusted resellers do indeed sell plenty of watches that are, by every meaningful measure, new.

Finally, the forces of supply and demand, and choosing to pay a premium to get any watch you want whenever you want it is the definition of free market capitalism. And I for one feel very fortunate to be able to make those decisions for myself based on my desires and my means.

Ok, this time I’m really out.


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[broham84]

So many misinformed folks bought into the BS info YouTube dealers are selling.

[Bizcut1]

Originally Posted by thenewrick

Grey's don't get new stuff only used. Very important to always remember that.

It may look to be in excellent condition but it's always used. If that doesn't matter to you that's cool.

Just not accurate. I recently purchased a 126331 with stickers on in unworn condition. Paid right at retail and also saved the tax.

And, hell yes it was fun taking all the stickers off my new watch. Something an AD would never have "allowed."

Ben

[Ensign]

Well, for average Joes like you and me, that’s true.

[GreenLantern]

The day we all accept this is the day it should all end in flames.

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by Bizcut1

Just not accurate. I recently purchased a 126331 with stickers on in unworn condition. Paid right at retail and also saved the tax.

And, hell yes it was fun taking all the stickers off my new watch. Something an AD would never have "allowed."

Ben

The irony is that grey dealer got the watch from an AD or from a flipper who got it from an AD.

So, that implies that some ADs still leave the stickers on.

[TimepieceRPP]

Originally Posted by Son Goku

Vast majority of people would consider a fully stickered, unworn watch as being new. Hell most ADs won’t even let you walk out with the stickers on

Again you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Guess it applies to all Rolex. In 2020, it only applied to SS and the AD asked me if I wanted to keep the stickers on for my DJ41. This year in June, I bought a DJ36 and all the stickers have to be removed.

[GST15]

I get both sides. If someone wants to go grey, I am sure there are many reputable dealers, some here on this forum. Personally, I choose not to pay inflated prices. I have purchased 4 Rolex watches within the past year from my AD. I have not purchased any other jewelry or other brand watches from them. Started with YM 40, then Rootbeer, then OP41, and a few weeks ago a Submariner. Each one I was able to go in and try on before making a decision.
It is about building relationships, weather some want to admit it or not. They need to trust that you are not a flipper. This takes time or as some say "playing the game". I like my SA, and we have become friends. Those not willing or able to take the time to build a relationship, and need or want the watch immediately, can and should go grey market. There is nothing wrong with that. I do buy other brands as well, so if the time comes when I cannot get what I want from my AD, there are lots of other great watches out there.

[PerpinNC]

Sad but true went to an AD, drove 1 hour and 30 to an AD to only see three watches in the largest populated city in my state. I was told it would take me 2 years to get the watch I want. I read this build a relationship nonsense and it is hogwash. I did not build a relationship with my mercedes benz sales rep, hell I did not build a relationship with my Lexus sales rep neither and they both gave me a discount due to haggling of course. Point being if a person have the money to buy the item, then make the item available. Stop with this prestigious, rare artifact item because eventually some of us will remember.

[Toms]

It seems the ADs are just part of the supply chain, while the Greys are the point of sale.

[GST15]

Originally Posted by PerpinNC

Sad but true went to an AD, drove 1 hour and 30 to an AD to only see three watches in the largest populated city in my state. I was told it would take me 2 years to get the watch I want. I read this build a relationship nonsense and it is hogwash. I did not build a relationship with my mercedes benz sales rep, hell I did not build a relationship with my Lexus sales rep neither and they both gave me a discount due to haggling of course. Point being if a person have the money to buy the item, then make the item available. Stop with this prestigious, rare artifact item because eventually some of us will remember.

Lots of people waited and are still waiting for the new Corvette! They are on wait lists, and GM dealers were charging a premium over MSRP for them. People who didn't want to wait bought a Porsche or something else.
If you can't get the Rolex you want, or you don't want to spend some time stopping in to speak to the AD, then follow up with a call or text, there are other great high end watches to buy. I don't know what the problem is with Rolex distribution, and neither does anyone here, and I do believe there are some dishonest AD's, but I think most are doing the best they can. They can't make the watches appear.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by Rmoor

I purchased an AP about 4 years ago that came directly from a AP AD to the grey dealer. Still happens to this day for every brand.

Possibly one reason why AP is getting rid of ADs at a rapid clip.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by 77T

Greys aren’t ADs, they are the ADs top customers (by volume).

But compared to ADs, the Greys make many more sales to end-users than ADs.

I'd like to see some numbers that support those claims. Any sources?

[salnuaimi]

Originally Posted by sj24k

genuine question -- have you actually walked into an AD lately and seen DD40s to try on? and more than one, if that?

i haven't seen a DD40 at an AD in quite a long time. sure they can get me one (some quicker than others). but if i wanted to look at a few different variations and try some on, i would not go to an AD.

every branch has 2 or 3 of them here in Dubai

[GST15]

Originally Posted by salnuaimi

every branch has 2 or 3 of them here in Dubai

And every time I walk into my AD, they have one on display.

[1665fan]

Originally Posted by Bizcut1

Just not accurate. I recently purchased a 126331 with stickers on in unworn condition. Paid right at retail and also saved the tax.

And, hell yes it was fun taking all the stickers off my new watch. Something an AD would never have "allowed."

Ben

+1.....that guy does not know what he is talking about..... greys get unworn watches all the time from AD.... I think about 5 or more people have told him this but he won’t listen...

[thenewrick]

It sounds like everyone has different experiences. For whatever reason ADs allow
Me to try on all kinds of models and offer me professional series watches with no purchase history. It could just be my location or luck or charisma. Maybe in big cities the SAs are more jaded and tired of the “got Pepsi” cold calls all day.

Everyone’s got their thing. Used clothes and jewelry just irks me in a way that used cars don’t. Wearing someone else’s jewelry just feels.. it’s hard to describe. It definitely takes away from the luxury and personal feel of it. It’s nice getting a new piece that’s straight from factory to your wrist.

The only exception to this for me is vintage where it’s inevitable someone else has worn it over 40 years or whatever.

People can have their own opinions. But it’s a fact that Greys all sell used and unverified watches. Opinions and facts are not the same even though it’s 2021. I know that’s a shock to some people nowadays. :p

[1665fan]

Originally Posted by thenewrick

It sounds like everyone has different experiences. For whatever reason ADs allow
Me to try on all kinds of models and offer me professional series watches with no purchase history. It could just be my location or luck or charisma. Maybe in big cities the SAs are more jaded and tired of the “got Pepsi” cold calls all day.

Everyone’s got their thing. Used clothes and jewelry just irks me in a way that used cars don’t. Wearing someone else’s jewelry just feels.. it’s hard to describe. It definitely takes away from the luxury and personal feel of it. It’s nice getting a new piece that’s straight from factory to your wrist.

The only exception to this for me is vintage where it’s inevitable someone else has worn it over 40 years or whatever.

People can have their own opinions. But it’s a fact that Greys all sell used and unverified watches. Opinions and facts are not the same even though it’s 2021. I know that’s a shock to some people nowadays. :p

Full stickers unsized is NIB unworn......there’s a section called “sales corner” on this forum.......greys have them unsized and unworn on there all the time.....if your too good to wear a watch another man put on his wrist, good for u lol

There’s a reason people agree with me and not you....