Zenith Royal Oak?

[Nav01L]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

I get it. But not everything can be fresh and unique; Zenith do as good of a job as any in terms of venturing out into the deep end of design every now and then.

People on this forum scrutinize every detail of new sport watches, looking to see if there is any hint of Genta in there. Why? Do we do the same thing when a company releases a new dress watch? Do we say, I can't believe Kari Voutilanen is using essentially the same lugs and case as Urban Jurgensen? No. There are only so many ways to make an integrated sports watch, of course there will be derivatives of the first one ever made. It's not a big deal in the slightest.

Also, there is a very real risk in terms of creating something completely new. You mention the Octo Finissimo, but the Parmigiani Tonda, Urban Jurgensen One, Lang & Heyne Hektor have all been highly criticized on this forum, despite their completely new/fresh take on a sports watch design. For the most part, people say they want unique and fresh designs, but they rarely vote with their wallet. I can get a discount on the Octo and the three other sports watches I mentioned. I would have to sacrifice my first born to get a nautilus or royal oak, despite those watches being relatively untouched for decades. People say they want change, but that's just lip service. They just want to have the ability to see unique things, but at the end of the day stand in line for vanilla offerings.

Most folks don’t vote with their wallet, they vote with their ego (and/or their insecurities as well as their need to belong to and bear status within their tribe). They want to look sophisticated by demanding originality, but what they want even more is to display status among their peers. And if all their peers will recognize has been designed by one Mr Genta, well then the best and dearest of his creations it must be.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

for the most part, people say they want unique and fresh designs, but they rarely vote with their wallet. I can get a discount on the octo and the three other sports watches i mentioned. I would have to sacrifice my first born to get a nautilus or royal oak, despite those watches being relatively untouched for decades. People say they want change, but that's just lip service. They just want to have the ability to see unique things, but at the end of the day stand in line for vanilla offerings.

But let's be THANKFUL they stick with Vanilla, more good stuff for us

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Nav01L

Most folks don’t vote with their wallet, they vote with their ego (and/or their insecurities as well as their need to belong to and bear status within their tribe). They want to look sophisticated by demanding originality, but what they want even more is to display status among their peers. And if all their peers will recognize has been designed by one Mr Genta, well then the best and dearest of his creations it must be.

Correct unfortunately that leaves many of us annoyed as there was a time when wearing an RO or 5711 was nothing more than decently finished sports watch that quietly snubbed it’s nose at a similarly priced DD or gold sub.

[kunlun]

Originally Posted by GB-man

UJ one would have been better without the bracelet which feels more than a bit nautilus inspired.

The UJ one's bracelet literally (not figuratively) repeats the motif found in the guilloché of the dial. Go on, look up a picture of it*.

It's an awesome watch with its own internally coherent design.






*Do it!

[kunlun]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

Honestly though, why does everyone get so worked up? Unless it’s a direct copy, who cares? The selective outrage in this community is comical.

Do you bemoan when companies not named Breguet use Breguet hands and dial/guilloche designs? Do we lambast AP for copying Hublot with the integrated rubber strap? Do you criticize Rolex for taking Blancpain’s unidirectional dive bezel idea? How about Kari using Urban Jurgensen’s exact teardrop lug design and closely mirroring their cases?

Seems like it’s okay to take liberties with design when it’s not against established popular brands.

I once had a guy with some serious high end watches tell me
that a modern Breguet was copying a Roger W Smith.

I was like Girlfriend, nuh-uh. Seriously, that's a few degrees of wrong, but that's how people are. And I agree there's nothing wrong with the long history of borrowing classic design features in horology, but the selective outrage and severe difficulty people have in even reading what is from what is bizarre.

[Nav01L]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Correct unfortunately that leaves many of us annoyed as there was a time when wearing an RO or 5711 was nothing more than decently finished sports watch that quietly snubbed it’s nose at a similarly priced DD or gold sub.

The class those masses so slavishly aspire to is fully lost in the slavishness of their aspiration.

Meanwhile, I continue to buy round classic watches at list price or below.

Because the dignity you surrender at the doorstep of the AD can never be recovered by wearing the watch he gets you.

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by Nav01L

Most folks don’t vote with their wallet, they vote with their ego (and/or their insecurities as well as their need to belong to and bear status within their tribe). They want to look sophisticated by demanding originality, but what they want even more is to display status among their peers. And if all their peers will recognize has been designed by one Mr Genta, well then the best and dearest of his creations it must be.

It’s unfortunate, but this is completely spot on.

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Attachment 1269215

But let's be THANKFUL they stick with Vanilla, more good stuff for us

I’m not complaining. Haha

Originally Posted by kunlun

I once had a guy with some serious high end watches tell me that a modern Breguet was copying a Roger W Smith.

I was like Girlfriend, nuh-uh. Seriously, that's a few degrees of wrong, but that's how people are. And I agree there's nothing wrong with the long history of borrowing classic design features in horology, but the selective outrage and severe difficulty people have in even reading what is from what is bizarre.

Hahaha, how dare Breguet rip off Roger.

I can’t wrap my head around the selective outrage people have. It’s like there are select brands that can do no wrong, while other brands deserve to be scrutinized for every little offense.

Originally Posted by Nav01L

The class those masses so slavishly aspire to is fully lost in the slavishness of their aspiration.

Meanwhile, I continue to buy round classic watches at list price or below.

Because the dignity you surrender at the doorstep of the AD can never be recovered by wearing the watch he gets you.

I can’t bring myself to play these AD and boutique games, even for watches I like. I’m much happier finding diamonds in the rough than groveling for a watch.

[Pw92676]

I like the new zenith. This with their chronomaster would make a great duo.

[samuel019]

Call me crazy but I kinda like it

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

I can’t wrap my head around the selective outrage people have. It’s like there are select brands that can do no wrong, while other brands deserve to be scrutinized for every little offense.

(Deep sigh) Many years ago I was guilty of that. Patek could do no wrong. Then time, and experience, passed. Now PP is basically equal to a Grand Seiko for their main production pieces imho. That's respect for Grand Seiko of course

I can’t bring myself to play these AD and boutique games, even for watches I like. I’m much happier finding diamonds in the rough than groveling for a watch.

Do you have a WoS or Mayors near you? I make zero guarantees, yet PM me... put in requests and wait, it'll come at some point (except for crazy stuff like Pepsi Meteorite, etc). WoS has a deep line into various brands and so far I gotta admit they've come through time and time again. Of course ya still gotta wait about a year for an MB&F Willy Wonka, but... you know

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

(Deep sigh) Many years ago I was guilty of that. Patek could do no wrong. Then time, and experience, passed. Now PP is basically equal to a Grand Seiko for their main production pieces imho. That's respect for Grand Seiko of course


Do you have a WoS or Mayors near you? I make zero guarantees, yet PM me... put in requests and wait, it'll come at some point (except for crazy stuff like Pepsi Meteorite, etc). WoS has a deep line into various brands and so far I gotta admit they've come through time and time again. Of course ya still gotta wait about a year for an MB&F Willy Wonka, but... you know

I kick myself for taking so long to appreciate Grand Seiko; they are such a fantastic brand worthy of the attention they are finally getting.

I can’t wait to see your Willy Wonka incoming, MB&F is a favorite brand of mine and I am somewhat of a Max fanboy, haha. I’m on the list for the blue steel 101 myself, but I’m secretly hoping they release another palladium version with sea foam dial.

I very much appreciate your offer and help, btw.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by kunlun

The UJ one's bracelet literally (not figuratively) repeats the motif found in the guilloché of the dial. Go on, look up a picture of it*.



It's an awesome watch with its own internally coherent design.













*Do it!

Hmm valid point. I suppose a great deal of my vitriol towards newer integrated bracelet designs, particularly those that remind me of 5711/15202, is derived from my current feelings towards those brands and watches. I also loathe PCL in general.

Originally Posted by Nav01L

The class those masses so slavishly aspire to is fully lost in the slavishness of their aspiration.

Meanwhile, I continue to buy round classic watches at list price or below.

Because the dignity you surrender at the doorstep of the AD can never be recovered by wearing the watch he gets you.

Absolutely I pretty much gave up trying to get anything from Rolex Patek or AP lol

[TimeAZ]

Absolutely dreadful. I get that Zenith is using a high-beat movement, but enough of the "1/10th second" gimmicky bull. I hate it on the chronograph, and this is even more offensive to have a 10 second sub-dial. Really idiotic. Bracelet looks a little cheap and I'm sure the clasp is a let-down too.

To summarize how I really feel about it: Hate it. Somebody should take this release behind the barn and shoot it.

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by TimeAZ

Absolutely dreadful. I get that Zenith is using a high-beat movement, but enough of the "1/10th second" gimmicky bull. I hate it on the chronograph, and this is even more offensive to have a 10 second sub-dial. Really idiotic. Bracelet looks a little cheap and I'm sure the clasp is a let-down too.

To summarize how I really feel about it: Hate it. Somebody should take this release behind the barn and shoot it.

Here here. Like you, I'm on baited breath for the upcoming Rolex releases. Hopefully they shave another fraction of a millimeter off the lugs so we can all hold hands and heap praise on such a profound, groundbreaking company.

As we all know, well made bracelets and hype are the most important aspects of a watch.

[mac_135]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

As we all know, well made bracelets and hype are the most important aspects of a watch.

I find it hard to wear bracelets from most other brands after some time with the Oyster and Jubilee bracelets, I think you're on to something!

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by mac_135

I find it hard to wear bracelets from most other brands after some time with the Oyster and Jubilee bracelets, I think you're on to something!

Uh oh... Ok, I gotta add (as I duck for cover) the new-ish Speedy bracelet as being super comfy. jmho.

Speaking of which, Speedmaster check PM :)

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Uh oh... Ok, I gotta add (as I duck for cover) the new-ish Speedy bracelet as being super comfy. jmho.

Speaking of which, Speedmaster check PM :)

Attachment 1269349

No need to duck for cover, you aren't in the Rolex section, haha. I think Omega really stepped up their bracelet game. Thoroughly enjoyed the bracelet I sourced for my old CK2998

[mac_135]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Uh oh... Ok, I gotta add (as I duck for cover) the new-ish Speedy bracelet as being super comfy. jmho.

Speaking of which, Speedmaster check PM :)

Attachment 1269349

Looks great, very nice piece! I haven't tried that bracelet. I'm not saying I don't like other brands bracelets, I just love the Rolex bracelets more than anything I have tried this far.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by mac_135

Looks great, very nice piece! I haven't tried that bracelet. I'm not saying I don't like other brands bracelets, I just love the Rolex bracelets more than anything I have tried this far.

Totally cool, and I understand. Try the new Omega bracelet... report back :)

BTW, Speedmaster inspired me so am now wearing this

[Giangos]

Originally Posted by rolexfanforlife

First the Daytona and now this. I’m losing respect for Zenith

Amen

They’ve completely lost me this time.


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[Argo98]

Originally Posted by kunlun

The Zenith Defy this is based on originated in 1969, 3 years before the Royal Oak.

Yes the defy is from 69 but this has nothing to do with then
defy from 69 . 😂( except the bezel) All the references to the first defy are purely a matter of marketing just to add historicity to this model.

[boogiebot]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

Here here. Like you, I'm on baited breath for the upcoming Rolex releases. Hopefully they shave another fraction of a millimeter off the lugs so we can all hold hands and heap praise on such a profound, groundbreaking company.

As we all know, well made bracelets and hype are the most important aspects of a watch.

touché. I like Rolex too, but I can’t help but agree with you.


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[boogiebot]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

Shhhh. Don't upset people that think every sport watch in history is a derivative of Genta design.

Every night, I go into the woods, surround myself with candles and sacrifice lesser sport watches so Genta can bless me with a good sports watch harvest next year.

I’m dying here! Speed master if you had a channel on YT and made video commentary on watches I think you’d kill it.


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[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by boogiebot

I’m dying here! Speed master if you had a channel on YT and made video commentary on watches I think you’d kill it.


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Haha, I appreciate it, but I think people are tired enough of my sarcasm.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

Haha, I appreciate it, but I think people are tired enough of my sarcasm.

Go for it, do YouTube

[boogiebot]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

Haha, I appreciate it, but I think people are tired enough of my sarcasm.

Absolutely not man. Are you kidding?!?! Bro this is what makes the site fun and interesting. I guarantee if you made a channel and it was sarcastic with satire you would be a hit. Think about it like this, I’m what many would consider a Rolex fan boy, but if I can laugh at the jokes you crack, and agree with the points of view you have; how many other Rolex fan boys would find it funny too? Then you have to think about those that are micro brand connoisseurs or have a hate for the big brands. I think it would be refreshing to see a channel like this that delivers the “straight goods”.


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[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Go for it, do YouTube

I'll consider it if you are my co-host

Originally Posted by boogiebot

Absolutely not man. Are you kidding?!?! Bro this is what makes the site fun and interesting. I guarantee if you made a channel and it was sarcastic with satire you would be a hit. Think about it like this, I’m what many would consider a Rolex fan boy, but if I can laugh at the jokes you crack, and agree with the points of view you have; how many other Rolex fan boys would find it funny too? Then you have to think about those that are micro brand connoisseurs or have a hate for the big brands. I think it would be refreshing to see a channel like this that delivers the “straight goods”.


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We should consider a youtube channel that is more like a network of contributing members from this forum (semi serious suggestion). Atleast now that YouTube removed the dislike button I can pretend everyone loved my vids.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

I'll consider it if you are my co-host

(Blushing) Thanks man, yet my live streaming days are kinda over. Had the TriCaster 460 right when it first came out and a couple of Canon XA25 cams, pro lighting.... lost a ton selling it. Not a single vid was ever monetized, never will. It's called giving back to the community you love.

Btw, now the kids can do 80% of the same stuff for a teeny tiny small fraction... and they monetize the living sh out of it.

You don't want me, I swear... a lot. Oh, and the older I get, the less 'filtering'.

There is a luxury gig I got coming up tho. Maybe the sweet, kind, gracious mods here will let me post about it the day it drops.

[The Kermit]

Actually don’t mind it

[boogiebot]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

I'll consider it if you are my co-host



We should consider a youtube channel that is more like a network of contributing members from this forum (semi serious suggestion). Atleast now that YouTube removed the dislike button I can pretend everyone loved my vids.

Sir, I love this idea. I love the ability of the community coming together and sharing wild ideas that may ruffle feathers and offer varying views of the watch world.


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