Kering announces the sale of Girard-Perregaux and Ulysse Nardin to their Management

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

I know this is off topic, but does anyone have opinions about Watchbox buying a big stake (was it majority stake?) in De Bethune?

It's one thing to have a watch conglomerate or luxury brand purchasing a watchmaker, but it feels kinda funny a luxury watch reseller would put such a stake in a watchmaker.

Watchbox has been pounding buyers on De Bethune to the point that it's kinda become cliche. But now there is a clear financial incentive to keep pushing the brand.

It seems like a move that will open Watchbox to more criticism about its credibility when it comes to watch recommendations.

It's a small world, Richemont own Watchfinder.

[Nav01L]

Originally Posted by ajw45

I want to know how Calce got the job at GF. He's pretty open about doubling production, cutting r&d, and caring more about customer segmentation than watchmaking. Gotta be a Richemont plant. Same play when he was at GP and Panerai, it didn't work then, I don't think it'll work now....

Antonio Calce once got bitten by a snake, and after five long days of agony, the snake… oh no, wait that was Chuck Norris.

But Antonio Calce has counted to infinity, twi… oh no, that was Chuck Norris too.

So turns out for a guy so brashly speaking of himself in the third person, there’s really not that much Antonio Calce did successfully…

[Nav01L]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

I know this is off topic, but does anyone have opinions about Watchbox buying a big stake (was it majority stake?) in De Bethune?

It's one thing to have a watch conglomerate or luxury brand purchasing a watchmaker, but it feels kinda funny a luxury watch reseller would put such a stake in a watchmaker.

Watchbox has been pounding buyers on De Bethune to the point that it's kinda become cliche. But now there is a clear financial incentive to keep pushing the brand.

It seems like a move that will open Watchbox to more criticism about its credibility when it comes to watch recommendations.

From the perspective of both brands it’s a very good move. DeBethune finally have a distribution channel that works and WB get to actually benefit from their hard work hyping up the brand, rather than doing it only to see their inventory move and/or appreciate as they did with Journe. I mean imagine how they must feel about Journe, they made good money by becoming the unofficial vintage arm of the brand, but they also contributed in a major way to building the brand itself and that they get nothing for. No wonder chatty Tim is so bitter about FPJ „the man“, but not the brand, as he will always immediately specify to protect the multimillion interest his company still has in its watches.

As for us collectors and enthusiasts, we just have to face the fact that most of the „watch media“ is really more „watch monetizing“. We somehow keep holding these formats to journalistic standards, when they’re really more akin to the good old teleshopping channel. In this regard, watchbox is actually quite open and makes no pretense of being an objective resource („if you love this watch, email chatty Tim at [email protected])… In this respect, they are much unlike other publications which try to uphold the illusion of a barrier between editorial and sales when it’s obviously too porous to even serve as a fig leaf (Hodinkee anyone? Revolution? Etc, etc).

[S``]

Damn... I just watched the ugliest Livestream with the "Gray" cartel of Thorpey, Roman Sharf, Spencer hyping up GP ... Here are the points so that not to provide any additional views to them... Please keep in mind that they were so cringey that I couldn't watch the entire thing

1.) TPG made the market on the RG Laureato skeleton at 80k. Bear in mind that US sticker price on these were 66k, and I bet you could get a significant discount on these at the AD... It was mentioned that "another seller" at the MIA antiques and jewellery show asked for the same price because of TPG influence... Feck me

2.) If things couldn't get any worse, they also said that the "original owners" of GP and UN bought back the brands... That's pure BS... Also lest we forgot that the transaction cost was rumoured to be around 70-100m CHF for both brands... Kering bought UN in 2014 for 650m CHF.... You could say both brands are now sold for fractions.... For a reason...

3.) Then they went on to hype an iced out (factory) RG three bridge tourby where tpg supposedly paid 600k (knowing his history, it might be overstated), for 1.5m... I'd bet a house that the AD will not only thank you for purchasing the same watch for 600k, you'd be made a lifetime vvvvvvvip of the AD...

[ajw45]

Originally Posted by S``

Damn... I just watched the ugliest Livestream with the "Gray" cartel of Thorpey, Roman Sharf, Spencer hyping up GP ... Here are the points so that not to provide any additional views to them... Please keep in mind that they were so cringey that I couldn't watch the entire thing

1.) TPG made the market on the RG Laureato skeleton at 80k. Bear in mind that US sticker price on these were 66k, and I bet you could get a significant discount on these at the AD... It was mentioned that "another seller" at the MIA antiques and jewellery show asked for the same price because of TPG influence... Feck me

2.) If things couldn't get any worse, they also said that the "original owners" of GP and UN bought back the brands... That's pure BS... Also lest we forgot that the transaction cost was rumoured to be around 70-100m CHF for both brands... Kering bought UN in 2014 for 650m CHF.... You could say both brands are now sold for fractions.... For a reason...

3.) Then they went on to hype an iced out (factory) RG three bridge tourby where tpg supposedly paid 600k (knowing his history, it might be overstated), for 1.5m... I'd bet a house that the AD will not only thank you for purchasing the same watch for 600k, you'd be made a lifetime vvvvvvvip of the AD...

LOL, thanks for the clifs. I'm really tired of watching these guys take all the art and luxury out of the watch industry but if they make the GP market and people are dumb enough to start paying over for MSRP for them, that would be hilarious. I approve of this pump and dump.

[S``]

Originally Posted by ajw45

LOL, thanks for the clifs. I'm really tired of watching these guys take all the art and luxury out of the watch industry but if they make the GP market and people are dumb enough to start paying over for MSRP for them, that would be hilarious. I approve of this pump and dump.

Maybe my ref 4946 will go to $20k soon

But seriously, pumping GP and dumping them on the unknowns is a sin in itself...

The brand is still under a lot of pressure... And lest we forget, the last time CVC bought Breitling, they dumped a ton of old inventory to the market at significant discounts... Took breitling years to recover... Even today, some would say... They haven't recovered...

I'm not saying the same play of dumping inventory will happen with GP/UN, but I'll not be shocked if the same MO were taken considering what they did to JeanRichard in the past... People will get hurt when they listen to these unscrupulous dealers

[ajw45]

Originally Posted by S``

Maybe my ref 4946 will go to $20k soon

But seriously, pumping GP and dumping them on the unknowns is a sin in itself...

The brand is still under a lot of pressure... And lest we forget, the last time CVC bought Breitling, they dumped a ton of old inventory to the market at significant discounts... Took breitling years to recover... Even today, some would say... They haven't recovered...

I'm not saying the same play of dumping inventory will happen with GP/UN, but I'll not be shocked if the same MO were taken considering what they did to JeanRichard in the past... People will get hurt when they listen to these unscrupulous dealers

Oh, for sure. In this hype market I'm over being concerned about all the dumb things people are "investing" in. See crypto for more details. At this point it's buyer beware, every man/woman for themselves. If people want to pay double for GP, quintuple for a tiffany DJ, I'm not sure where you draw the line at what's sensical and what isn't.