Mismatched serial number, full set purchased from grey market dealer

[WilsdorfNDavis]

Originally Posted by GRabens

Too much time has passed to identify this mix-up. Unfortunately I think you will probably be out of luck. Buyer beware.

Exactly.
Sale was 3 years ago.
Caveat emptor.

[KathleenL]

Originally Posted by Vetracer

Hello all

I’m feeling a little deflated today. I decided to consolidate a few watches to buy another and after posting pictures of the watches to a grey market dealer, he pointed out that the serial number in the punched paperwork for one of the watches, didn’t match the serial number shown on the guarantee card I got from the grey dealer I purchased the watch from in 2019.

Regrettably, I took off the bracelet and discovered that the serial number engraved between the lugs was different to that stated on the paperwork!

The watch is stunning and was accompanied by a perfect wooden box, papers, service receipts, the Rolex anchor and instruction booklets all from 1995. At the time, I paid a premium for this.

I have a reasonable watch collection almost entirely bought from authorised dealers. Lesson learned, please ensure you don’t take it for granted that the concealed serial number on a vintage watch matches the serial number on the paperwork. In the case of Rolex, insist they remove the bracelet and check the serials for a match yourself.

I’ve contacted the grey market dealer today and I’m waiting to hear back from them tomorrow. My expectation when I speak with them tomorrow is that they will refund me the current retail market value of the watch. Is that what you’d expect too?

Please, @Vetracer, please clear up one thing for me... You said that a grey dealer pointed out to you that, "the serial number in the punched paperwork for one of the watches, didn’t match the serial number shown on the guarantee card," and you also said that, "the serial number engraved between the lugs was different to that stated on the paperwork." My question is: Does the serial number engraved between the lugs match the serial number on the guarantee card, or are all three serial numbers (paperwork, guarantee card, and engraved between the lugs) different from each other?

[Tricolore66]

Back when many AD’s had on-site Rolex certified watchmakers and had parts accounts it wasn’t all that uncommon for dealers to change bracelets and even dials and bezels on brand-new watches. It was actually quite common on Datejust models.

[fsprow]

It seems to me that calling the dealer and discussing it is better than getting the opinions of how the dealer might respond from people in a forum.

[EEpro]

I had a similar experience but thankfully the first thing I check is matching serial numbers. No box and papers, bro. It's about $1-1.5K hit.

[interestedwatcher]

I'm guessing it's a paperwork mix up - they should be able to see who they actually sold the guarantee serial number to, and it may be as simple as calling them and they have your papers and you have theirs.

[joli160]

I don’t think the seller has to do anything for you

You bought it in 2019 and in 2022 you want cancel the transaction and even make a profit out of it.
Not how it works

[OpusXIII]

Originally Posted by skipstar

I have a different take, they might say that they can’t prove you didn’t swap the watch in the last few years and that this is your problem and only your problem. I obviously hope that they don’t do this but I wouldn’t be surprised.
Good luck and keep us posted.

Exactly this -

[mfserge]

Originally Posted by 911991

Purchased in 2109 you may get lucky and the dealer will refund what you paid for it in 2019 provided its in same condition when you bought it

Yes, he and doc got into his DeLorean then 1.21 giggawatts later he had his Rolex. Now if only he could get back in to find out how this story will end that would be great…or go back in time to prevent himself from buy it…because this isn’t going to end well.

[Old Expat Beast]

Best you could hope for is a straight refund, which I'm sure the seller would be happy to offer since that would be less than what he (or you) could get for it now, even without papers.

Essentially, you're still ahead. Just not as much as you thought.

[Brucehbrown]

The Timepiece Gentleman would buy it back for $20K more or current market value if it was one of the GP’s he was selling recently.
Seriously, give the dealer an old fashioned phone call. Be prepared to accept the worst and
be delighted if you get anything like what you think you deserve.
Good luck!

[AF_Rob]

Given the market, I'd keep it. No harm in reaching out and seeing what options you have. worst case, you overpaid for a watch with no paperwork (since your paperwork matches another watch) that is now likely worth more than you paid. Good luck, either way.

[77T]

It’s unfortunate you have lost out on this deal.

Maybe your dealer will refund you as an exception. But doubt you’d want the refund.


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[Brenngun]

Originally Posted by KathleenL

Please, @Vetracer, please clear up one thing for me... You said that a grey dealer pointed out to you that, "the serial number in the punched paperwork for one of the watches, didn’t match the serial number shown on the guarantee card," and you also said that, "the serial number engraved between the lugs was different to that stated on the paperwork." My question is: Does the serial number engraved between the lugs match the serial number on the guarantee card, or are all three serial numbers (paperwork, guarantee card, and engraved between the lugs) different from each other?

We definitely need an answer to this question. Also it could be possible that the case was changed during a service which would likely have a different number. I don't think it would be reasonable for you to expect a refund equivalent to market price today if any refund at all. 3 years is a long time.

[2loaded]

The risk of going 2nd hand.
Pun intended

[rolexpure]

I Highly highly doubt they will refund you more than what you paid. No way.

If you return it to them they will give you what you paid back and most likely resell it at todays rate. But then again mismatched serials will have an impact. They will probably have to sell it as naked.

Maybe you should sell it as Naked yourself?

[fmc000]

No pics?

[Golfbone]

If the watch right now as it is is worth more than you paid for it I'm sure the dealer will over to buy it back from you for what you paid. Otherwise.....good luck. Caveat Emptor.

[Vetracer]

Originally Posted by KathleenL

Please, @Vetracer, please clear up one thing for me... You said that a grey dealer pointed out to you that, "the serial number in the punched paperwork for one of the watches, didn’t match the serial number shown on the guarantee card," and you also said that, "the serial number engraved between the lugs was different to that stated on the paperwork." My question is: Does the serial number engraved between the lugs match the serial number on the guarantee card, or are all three serial numbers (paperwork, guarantee card, and engraved between the lugs) different from each other?

To be clear, the serial number on the courtesy grey market dealer card matches the serial number on the watch, but not the manufacturer’s certificate.

[nuwildcat928]

Originally Posted by Brucehbrown

The Timepiece Gentleman would buy it back for $20K more or current market value if it was one of the GP’s he was selling recently.
Seriously, give the dealer an old fashioned phone call. Be prepared to accept the worst and
be delighted if you get anything like what you think you deserve.
Good luck!

TPG (Marco) dealt with this exact issue a couple months ago. They would only offer a refund for what the original sale was, for the reasons already listed here, primarily that there was no way of knowing that the buyer or someone else hadn’t made a switch. If the watch is all authentic then you are only short on the box and papers and have still made a healthy profit on the watch itself. Sorry to hear but this seems fair to me.

[GGGMT]

Originally Posted by Vetracer

To be clear, the serial number on the courtesy grey market dealer card matches the serial number on the watch, but not the manufacturer’s certificate.

This suggests dealer knew of mismatch before he sold to you. Still, you’re getting no refund.


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[Tricolore66]

He posted here looking for confirmation that he should be really upset and the dealer owes him something.

Originally Posted by fsprow

It seems to me that calling the dealer and discussing it is better than getting the opinions of how the dealer might respond from people in a forum.

[nyyankees]

So what did the dealer say?


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[Car32]

Originally Posted by Vetracer

To be clear, the serial number on the courtesy grey market dealer card matches the serial number on the watch, but not the manufacturer’s certificate.

Doesn’t make sense. You should have notified there is a mismatch between the certificate and the dealer card. Don’t need to check the case to notice this.

[GGGMT]

Originally Posted by Car32

Doesn’t make sense. You should have notified there is a mismatch between the certificate and the dealer card. Don’t need to check the case to notice this.

Exactly. 3 years later? Buyer should and will get nothing.

Who was the seller?


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[waterking]

Unless you are trying to get more money for the watch just take a good attitude into the discussion with the dealer and maybe they will respond in a positive way. They don't have a responsibility to either buy or replace the watch. Goodluck with the issue...hope it works out for you....

[Cigars&Watches]

I would be very surprised if the dealer will do anything 3 years later.

[Sandpit]

Too much time has passed now, and honestly these things should always be checked regardless of who the dealer is. Mistakes can happen.

In any case, you've had 3 years worth of price rises so you're quids in. It would be worth highlighting to the guy you bought it from, but I think going back now demanding money would be a bit unreasonable.

[dpt.calvin]

Refund from a purchase in 2019. Yeh, no.

[Reinhard in SA]

Originally Posted by Vetracer

Hello all

I’m feeling a little deflated today. I decided to consolidate a few watches to buy another and after posting pictures of the watches to a grey market dealer, he pointed out that the serial number in the punched paperwork for one of the watches, didn’t match the serial number shown on the guarantee card I got from the grey dealer I purchased the watch from in 2019.

Regrettably, I took off the bracelet and discovered that the serial number engraved between the lugs was different to that stated on the paperwork!

The watch is stunning and was accompanied by a perfect wooden box, papers, service receipts, the Rolex anchor and instruction booklets all from 1995. At the time, I paid a premium for this.

I have a reasonable watch collection almost entirely bought from authorised dealers. Lesson learned, please ensure you don’t take it for granted that the concealed serial number on a vintage watch matches the serial number on the paperwork. In the case of Rolex, insist they remove the bracelet and check the serials for a match yourself.

I’ve contacted the grey market dealer today and I’m waiting to hear back from them tomorrow. My expectation when I speak with them tomorrow is that they will refund me the current retail market value of the watch. Is that what you’d expect too?

Back in the day paperwork often got mixed up. I have a 16710 where the serial on the papers don't match the watch. So somewhere out there is another 16710 with my paperwork. The date of sale etc all match up though.