Jean-Marc Pontroue is destroying the brand

[watchnlaw]

I agree with everything you've said. The 233 is legendary, I have a 112 and I love it. I like a few other older base models but have been quite upset with the direction the brand has taken ever since they went to non screw in casebacks on several "diver" models. It's a real shame, I was a big fan previously. These are luxury items and completely wasteful, to act like these brands want to be sustainable is disingenuous.

[watchnlaw]

At some point you'd think the gimmick special editions would have to run their coarse. There are only so many that fans will buy before it's overkill.

[djman]

I know this is primarily a thread about sustainable materials (which I'm not too bothered by, except for the pretty awful logo on the dial), but hear me out.
I used to be a huge Panerai fan, it was my first ever proper watch. I bought a blue face 119 in Selfridges in London for £2500 back in 2005 to celebrate getting a particular job.
Over the years I then bought a 243 (best sub ever made imho), a 233 (one of the best watches Panerai have ever made imvho) and odd things like a 160.
I gave the 119 to my son for his 18th, some years ago now, he has always loved it and it will, I hope, always stay in our family.
However ... I went into the London boutique a few weeks ago and tried on some watches I'd seen online, keen to get back into the brand. Gone from the current collection are most of the watches I liked; the new bracelets are tinny, awful, feel like they've fallen out of a Christmas cracker. I must have tried on 10 watches, none of which I would have worn had they been given to me for free. Massively disappointing. I think the guy in charge has got it seriously wrong. The brand back in 2005 made a handful of models, most with something quite special about them. Now they pump out what feels like hundreds and, as others have said, they just don't have the finishing and quality that I remembered. They feel pretty unsubstantial in the hand and I'm out. It's such a shame. The only silver lining is that pre Vendome pieces seem to be plummeting in value so I might go there. As someone said above, buy from the right era. Maybe a 127. Or wait for 203's to be dragged down by the brand until they're almost worthless and pick one of those up for a song.

[77T]

Panerai’s impact on the environmental issue would be very, very small. But stating a corporate direction on sustainability (i.e. part of their production choice) is being transparent with their customer base.

I’d guess Panerai would have been pilloried had the post-consumer recycled content been kept a secret.

Whether it has greater appeal depends upon the customer base in 2025 onward. Good promotion already since the watch world has noticed and a discussion is taking place.

As for impact, even if Rolex + Swatch converted every model into 100% recycled content (if that was even possible), it would be on the order of a gnat on an elephant’s trunk.

[lowmandfl]

I wholeheartedly agree with this thread. I had a Pam1024 and a PAM1305, and enjoyed both. It’s a brand I want to love, and keep hoping they get back on track, but for all of the reasons mentioned in this thread have found the brand hugely disappointing. All the while their quality of finishing and movements is going down, and prices keep going up. I feel they are already over priced, given the finishing I’ve seen. At what point does it break the brand?

[Ravager135]

I've owned seven different Panerai watches across all their different case offerings and the only two that I miss are my PAM024 and PAM005. The brand has just traveled in a direction that I am no longer interested in. It really has nothing to do with recycled materials or even the use of innovative novel materials. It just comes down to the branding, the movements, the compromises on the entry level models, and the ridiculous asking prices.

There is no consistency in the offerings, the catalogue is bloated, and you cannot get what most lovers of the brand really want: stainless steel, sandwich dial references with minimal complications, minimal dial text, domed crystals, and conservative designs. People want the PAM111, PAM112, PAM210, PAM372. That's your core offerings and there's no reason any of those models should have been discontinued (just given better movements as they are introduced).

[crazycarlitos]

Not a fan.

Haven’t seen any new model to drool over or crave since the Pam911 by AB in 2018.

AB was a true salesman. Lol
Jean-Marc is just an idealistic talker

JM, Coffee’s for closers

[jarecki]

I couldn’t care less about the cardboard boxes, I buy the watch. I do think that making a wooden box that I’m going to put in the closet forever is wasteful.

Having said that, I went to a Panerai boutique again the other day, first time in 3 years or so, and didn’t find many references that spoke to me… All those 44mm and 42mm submersibles are not great. I get it they have to market to a broader audience, but still…

The Radiomir line looks like have been gutted. The Duo - let’s not even talk about it…

[Polar Bear]

Without wanting to start a fire here, I do have to ask, everyone that is upset with the current direction the brand is heading in, when was the last time you bought a Panerai at an AD and what discount did they give you?

IME, most of the people most upset about the direction of the brand haven't actually bought a new PAM in more than 5 years (and if they did, they pushed for AT LEAST a 20% discount)

[rmwill]

I wish Richemont put as much emphasis on Panerai as they do on Cartier.

[crazycarlitos]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

IME, most of the people most upset about the direction of the brand haven't actually bought a new PAM in more than 5 years (and if they did, they pushed for AT LEAST a 20% discount)

Personally, I am not upset. It’s just a watch company.
Just don’t like the general direction panerai is headed… which seems like lowering their cost and quality.. and try to appeal to the mass public.

I still walk in to Panerai whenever I get a chance. But I haven’t seen anything I like in person, or on-line.

Why would I buy anything if I don’t see anything I like? Lol

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by rmwill

I wish Richemont put as much emphasis on Panerai as they do on Cartier.

Really like what Cartier is doing .

Santos Skeleton ...superb !

[rootbeer7]

Originally Posted by djman

I know this is primarily a thread about sustainable materials (which I'm not too bothered by, except for the pretty awful logo on the dial), but hear me out.
I used to be a huge Panerai fan, it was my first ever proper watch. I bought a blue face 119 in Selfridges in London for £2500 back in 2005 to celebrate getting a particular job.
Over the years I then bought a 243 (best sub ever made imho), a 233 (one of the best watches Panerai have ever made imvho) and odd things like a 160.
I gave the 119 to my son for his 18th, some years ago now, he has always loved it and it will, I hope, always stay in our family.
However ... I went into the London boutique a few weeks ago and tried on some watches I'd seen online, keen to get back into the brand. Gone from the current collection are most of the watches I liked; the new bracelets are tinny, awful, feel like they've fallen out of a Christmas cracker. I must have tried on 10 watches, none of which I would have worn had they been given to me for free. Massively disappointing. I think the guy in charge has got it seriously wrong. The brand back in 2005 made a handful of models, most with something quite special about them. Now they pump out what feels like hundreds and, as others have said, they just don't have the finishing and quality that I remembered. They feel pretty unsubstantial in the hand and I'm out. It's such a shame. The only silver lining is that pre Vendome pieces seem to be plummeting in value so I might go there. As someone said above, buy from the right era. Maybe a 127. Or wait for 203's to be dragged down by the brand until they're almost worthless and pick one of those up for a song.

Totally agree with you apart from the last part. I have an early 112 which feels like a proper Panerai and these are holding up well as are the early limited ones like 127, 217 & 203 (unfortunately).

[Rock Strongo]

I still can't get over the fact that someone wouldn't buy a watch because it includes recycled materials.

Panerai was on life support, the macho big watch era turned them around with the Richemont aquisition, and now they're adjusting to the current era where most of the growth is in China and nobody wants a 47mm metal hockey puck on their wrist.

Change and progress are part of business and life.

[sjap68]

I was kind of late to the Panerai party, I bought my first about 8 years ago and it was a Pam 305 titanium submersible.
I loved the looks, I loved the feel but could never entirely shake the feeling that it had a little too much wrist presence, it was really great big hunk of metal that whilst I loved was not really too inconspicuous and always felt just a little too big ( I know , I know Panerai’s are meant to be big) there was no lug wrist overhang but it just felt too much.

I then proceeded to buy a Radiomir base black seal logo which I again loved the looks, but yet again I felt it wasn’t quite right on my wrist, there was a whole lot of dial that filled an awful lot of wrist space.

Next was a blue dialed Pam 1058 luminor, that was pretty close to perfection for me, it wore beautifully, I liked the size , I liked the looks , I thought I was done.

Alas no. I made the mistake of looking in the Naples Panerai boutique one day and spotted the Pam 683, this truly was love at first site, I tried it on. This to me was absolute perfection,
I bought it right there and then and wore it out of the store.

My Panerai collection was complete as far as I was concerned.

Until I spotted the Pam973 submersible goldtech 42mm with ceramic bezel this was beyond perfection, I couldnt get it out of my head, I had a great collection of Panerai’s, I had 3 Rolexes, how could I possibly justify another Watch.

Well your mind will play tricks on you to justify anything it would appear.

I bought it.

Any way long story short I have now reduced my collection by off loading the Panerai’s down to just the Goldtech submersible ( I also off loaded 2 Rolex ) and focused on just a 3 Watch collection.


I guess what I’m trying to say is that I don’t think Panerai is being destroyed I have bought a number of the more recent references and really liked them, I believe Panerai as a company are evolving to appeal to a different demographic than they were in the 90’s and 2000’s. There simply is no stopping progress or change.
As humans we are really averse to change and unfamiliarity, we like stability and the familiar, we like to maintain the status quo.

So I am happy to buy the more recent models that appeal to me, but can sympathize with the traditionalists who look back with nostalgia about the good old days and what used to be.

[pereztroika]

The problem with Scamerai is not their "push" for sustainabilty but their repeated attempts to fool and deceive their customers. If steel recycling is not done with renewable energy, let's say with a solar-powered furnace for instance, it's NOT a thing as it has been done for ages. Steel has always been recycled. In addition, steel recycling requires much less energy than the production of new steel and should therefore be more affordable.

"Smelting scrap to make new steel is an art almost as ancient as steelmaking itself."
Swiss Steel Group, annual report 2021


Cheers
Jose

[roger.bolton]

Clearly he did not consult anyone on this forum!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olFIbXCiZxk

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by Rock Strongo

nobody wants a 47mm metal hockey puck on their wrist.

I do .I have hockey puck carrying wrists .

[Gargamel]

The problem is that Panerai went off track 10y ago.
They since try to find their way. But they won't.

New materials, hundreds of limited/re-limited copies, cut down production costs, green washing... None works.

People like the brand for the raw, simple design and honest product.
Quality should be at the heart of ANY product, luxury or not.

This CEO will fail and will be replaced.
It will go on and on until Richemont sell the brand.

[Undefeatable]

Originally Posted by Gargamel

The problem is that Panerai went off track 10y ago.
They since try to find their way. But they won't.

New materials, hundreds of limited/re-limited copies, cut down production costs, green washing... None works.

People like the brand for the raw, simple design and honest product.
Quality should be at the heart of ANY product, luxury or not.

This CEO will fail and will be replaced.
It will go on and on until Richemont sell the brand.

100% this.

As someone who has done marketing for the past 8 years as a career, you hit the nail.

If I could take over Panerai, I would reduce the amount of SKU's down to a core collection of say, 20-30 watches. Stick to their heritage, and focus on evolution not revolution. If they want limited editions that feature unique materials, fine, but reduce limited editions to 1-2 releases a year which will make them actually special.

[emtee]

Agree with most of the comments in this thread. I can look past much of it but I just cannot get get over the obvious cost cutting, particularly with the movements, and then trying to hide it whilst at the same time raising prices to silly numbers for some references. It feels like they have zero respect for their customers, especially the ones who have been fans for a long time. I love my 112 and it’s not going anywhere anytime soon but I am put off big time considering purchasing a modern reference. I truly hope they listen and take the brand in a new direction.

BTW I have absolutely no problem with the Due line etc and trying to appeal to a wider audience but do they really have to dumb down all the things that made them great in the first place at the same time?

[Hands90]

The eSteel. I can't get over how bad it looks on the dial.
Undone watches have always interested me but I don't like the 'Undone' on the dial. It screams Chinese watch co to me.

Same with eSteel, looks like something that would be on a fake Pam.

[Rock Strongo]

Originally Posted by Hands90

The eSteel. I can't get over how bad it looks on the dial.
Undone watches have always interested me but I don't like the 'Undone' on the dial. It screams Chinese watch co to me.

Same with eSteel, looks like something that would be on a fake Pam.

Probably not unintentional. Also why they are trending down in sizes (38mm & 40mm). Those of us with access to the regular internet are not the primary consumers of luxury goods anymore.

[rajurama]

A fine example of going sustainable without making too much drama.

Sent from my CPH1979 using Tapatalk

[rajurama]

https://usa.watchpro.com/is-sustaina...washing/?amp=1

[njlam]

This is the problem when a brand becomes part of a portfolio of brands.

Panerai will no longer offer “classic” Panerai’s like my 233 or the 372 and others. This is a shame but the parent company has other brands (like Cartier) for classic. They are using Panerai for attracting new buyers, and these new buyers are not old enough to not care about sustainability, social Justice and all that other woke
stuff…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rock Strongo]

Originally Posted by njlam

This is the problem when a brand becomes part of a portfolio of brands.

Panerai will no longer offer “classic” Panerai’s like my 233 or the 372 and others. This is a shame but the parent company has other brands (like Cartier) for classic. They are using Panerai for attracting new buyers, and these new buyers are not old enough to not care about sustainability, social Justice and all that other woke
stuff…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

lol what? Ignorance is a benefit of becoming old? That’s a new one.

[eonflux]

Originally Posted by rajurama

A fine example of going sustainable without making too much drama. Attachment 1292695Attachment 1292696

Sent from my CPH1979 using Tapatalk

I think UN makes some nice watches (and I’ve been fortunate to meet Dr. Ludwig Oechslin) but that piece looks awful, and hopefully it is completely recyclable and will be placed in a blue bin soon

[htc8p]

if they want sustainability just make sure the supply chain is fair, sustainable. not these gimmicks.

if their steel is of high quality it will last generations. that's it

[Kevin of Larchmont]

In a hobby where keeping the box and papers is considered integral to maintaining the value of the watch having a cardboard box that will never re-enter the production chain sit on a shelf for years with all the other wooden watch boxes is theater at best and reeks of cost cutting via virtue signaling. The Panerai back catalogue is rich with treasures. The worse the new ones get the more interesting the old become.