ALS Service Sticker Shock

[PBJ1925]

Thanks for the kind words everyone, sent the request to ALS as detailed above. Will know in a couple weeks if they agree.

Originally Posted by CFR

Also, just FYI for future reference, Lange can service that movement in NYC, either at the boutique or at Swiss Watch Repair Corp. No need to send it back to Glashutte unless there's something unusual going on.

Good luck with it!

Thanks again and appreciate the pro tip. Didn't realize the detail above, will definitely keep it in mind next round.

[CFR]

I should've asked this yesterday.

Can you say with certainty that nobody other than a Lange-authorized watchmaker in Germany or NYC ever opened the caseback of your watch?

Lange repairs often incur additional charges if someone else was ever in there.

[Gebbeth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tzFCXiFLVs

I found his story interesting. It's a long video, but in essence, there was a dispute regarding fixing his Zeitwerk. ALS claimed that someone had opened the case back before they received the watch.

It took a long time before the issue was resolved, but it looks like the AD had opened the case back for reasons still not explained.

I understand why ALS will not want to fix a watch under warranty if someone else mucked about in there, but if you're buying a $30,000 watch and above (sometimes very much above $30k), I think the benefit of the doubt should go to the original buyer.

There are only so many of these customers around the world, and at those price points, the competition is fierce.

[SoylentGreenChi]

Originally Posted by Gebbeth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tzFCXiFLVs

I found his story interesting. It's a long video, but in essence, there was a dispute regarding fixing his Zeitwerk. ALS claimed that someone had opened the case back before they received the watch.

It took a long time before the issue was resolved, but it looks like the AD had opened the case back for reasons still not explained.

I understand why ALS will not want to fix a watch under warranty if someone else mucked about in there, but if you're buying a $30,000 watch and above (sometimes very much above $30k), I think the benefit of the doubt should go to the original buyer.

There are only so many of these customers around the world, and at those price points, the competition is fierce.

Video well worth watching, particularly on this thread. I really hope things work out for the OP.

[PBJ1925]

Originally Posted by Gebbeth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tzFCXiFLVs

I found his story interesting. It's a long video, but in essence, there was a dispute regarding fixing his Zeitwerk. ALS claimed that someone had opened the case back before they received the watch.

It took a long time before the issue was resolved, but it looks like the AD had opened the case back for reasons still not explained.

I understand why ALS will not want to fix a watch under warranty if someone else mucked about in there, but if you're buying a $30,000 watch and above (sometimes very much above $30k), I think the benefit of the doubt should go to the original buyer.

There are only so many of these customers around the world, and at those price points, the competition is fierce.

Wow, thanks for sharing. In some ways, I feel somewhat similar but hopefully mine is more of a menu choice of just give me the oil change and car wash vs 30k service.

The written confirmation of condition and the taken photos from both SA and myself will account for any physical damage (if any) between the time of submission and receipt.

As for the potential for internal wear or damage that cannot be visually detected, I'll defer that to ALS.

Originally Posted by CFR

I should've asked this yesterday.

Can you say with certainty that nobody other than a Lange-authorized watchmaker in Germany or NYC ever opened the caseback of your watch?

Lange repairs often incur additional charges if someone else was ever in there.

It would be similar to the video linked in that, I guess it could be possible but unlikely as there wasn't any concern of visual damage, or functionality as noted in the condition description.

I'm just hoping its a service menu choice, vs damage en route/transit/x factor. Naturally if its due to age/wear, I'll happily foot the bill, so getting an explanation from ALS will be telling in the upcoming weeks.

[enjoythemusic]

Balance and dial.... Why so soon? Did a gasket fail? Long service time, good to know when considering the brand.

Really sorry OP, perhaps call Albert at European Watch Company for service if you're not satisfied with ALS' explanation.

[Potatowarrio89]

this thread scares me ...

after seeing your bills i have reservation on sending in my blancpain for servicing. Got the watch preowned and i think some watch technician scratched the movement during servicing.

maybe its better to sell the watch back to the dealer

[rolexandlange]

Originally Posted by PBJ1925

This is for a GL1 MP - ETA 30-32 Weeks (Little over 2 months to get a quote)



Naturally, I have some questions.

My $0.02 thinking out loud.
Either your watch is quite old and never been serviced, or has been opened/serviced outside of the Lange service network by a 3rd party. I suspect 3rd party interference here leaving their marks on the watch and Lange charging to bring it back to their standards. Hence there are a lot of things on this invoice outside of the standard service items of cleaning and a bit of lubrication. Lange would tell you their balance is a work of art so an optional replacement of that item tells you they have an opinion on its replacement and that suggests it's been touched outside of their network.

Also, I would have sent the watch to Alkis in NYC rather than Glashutte.

In any case, if the service is $4k it's not the end of the world.

[CFR]

I'm following up on this thread with clarifying information from Lange's website.

Here you can see that Lange offers two options: (1) Overhaul (Service) or (2) Repair. Overhaul (Service) is just a routine service or preventative maintenance (which I never do). Repair is described as follows: "If malfunctions occur due to external influences such as impact or penetration of water, these are rectified as part of a repair. Severe damage can also be dealt with through repair or replacing parts." A Repair includes everything you get in an Overhaul (Service) plus more.

Service/overhaul costs are here, and repair costs are here.

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by Watchflair

Jesus that’s absolutely absurd. I sold my Lange 1 MP back a few months ago - thinking it was the right move after seeing this lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think you're right. They need to figure out how to get this to $1100-1200 for a routine service.

[Wahlberg]

Originally Posted by edhahn44

I’ve actually experienced the same recently. Rate card for standard services increased dramatically. I’ve handed in a (pretty well worn) 1815 and the first quote I got was € 10k. Couldn’t believe it in the first place but they are serious about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

10k is crazy. What was the story?

[PBJ1925]

Happy Holidays everyone, hope all of you are safe, keeping warm, and enjoying time with F&F.

Had an interesting response from ALS, that I'm still trying to unpack in my head right before Christmas break. ETA of restoration below is 30-32 weeks.

Bottom line is went with the $3,940 'full restoration service' while keeping all the original parts with instructions to clean/refurbishment the case vs replacement of any 'optional' parts.

Seems like mechanically no need to replace the optional items unless I wanted everything to be like new from an aesthetic perspective. This is still a hefty bill, so questions my long term desire to have this as one of the cornerstones of my collection.

I need to ask a couple different parties some questions but won't have any other updates until likely sometime after the New Year.

[SearChart]

Wow that is insane

[fullofboats]

FYI

I just sent in a 219.026 for routine servicing. The quote was ~HKD10,000, including replacement of the front crystal (which was chipped) with ETA of 20 weeks.

[Justindo]

Please keep us updated on this. I have a basic 1815 in need of service and I was planning on a service cost of around $1k.

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by Justindo

Please keep us updated on this. I have a basic 1815 in need of service and I was planning on a service cost of around $1k.

I think it's between 1-2K. Most pricing is online or used to be last time I looked into it. They also offer laser fill repair and refinish for extra.

[1William]

Wow. Another reason to stick to simpler bands.

[CFR]

Originally Posted by EEpro

I think it's between 1-2K. Most pricing is online or used to be last time I looked into it. They also offer laser fill repair and refinish for extra.

Overhaul (routine service) prices are here.

Repair ("full service") prices are here.

Prices are in Euros.

[Gebbeth]

I guess my question is that of the itemized list of "repairs", the replacement of the balance seems to be the only "real" repair. The dial and hands is more of a "restoration" to "perfect" condition.

If you remove those items, the repair bill may come down to what's more in line with other similar luxury brand servicing costs.

That being said, why does the balance need to be replaced? Is something wrong with the balance, or did they interpret "perfect" condition to essentially giving you a completely rebuilt watch?

Something is not adding up (no pun intended).

[CFR]

Originally Posted by Gebbeth

[W]hy does the balance need to be replaced? Is something wrong with the balance, or did they interpret "perfect" condition to essentially giving you a completely rebuilt watch?

I was talking with someone at Lange about this because I recently got an estimate that also had some questionable items on it.

All of the optional items shown in the OP's post (including but not limited to balance replacement) are just that -- totally optional. Not necessary. Lange is essentially just saying, "These are additional things we can do if you want your watch movement to be as close as possible to brand new/unused."

On rare occasions (not relevant to the OP's example), Lange will limit their warranty if you decline to fix something that's usually optional but that they've deemed "necessary" in your particular instance. Example: You severely damage the case to the point that Lange can no longer guarantee water resistance unless they replace it. But again, that's rare, I'm told.

[Incroyable12]

I once bought a 1st generation ALS Saxonia for less than $10k.

[JeffMB]

Typical Richemont tactics. Trying to suck as much money as possible out of their clients.

[Dino944]

Originally Posted by PBJ1925

This is for a GL1 MP - ETA 30-32 Weeks (Little over 2 months to get a quote)



Naturally, I have some questions.

I don't understand why anyone would replace the dial, hands and balance unless they were damaged. That just seems ridiculous.

[pdnb]

Originally Posted by CFR

I'm following up on this thread with clarifying information from Lange's website.

Here you can see that Lange offers two options: (1) Overhaul (Service) or (2) Repair. Overhaul (Service) is just a routine service or preventative maintenance (which I never do). Repair is described as follows: "If malfunctions occur due to external influences such as impact or penetration of water, these are rectified as part of a repair. Severe damage can also be dealt with through repair or replacing parts." A Repair includes everything you get in an Overhaul (Service) plus more.

Service/overhaul costs are here, and repair costs are here.

Thanks! Even the highest category is “only 6k” for repair… where are the $10k bills?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pdnb]

Originally Posted by pdnb

Thanks! Even the highest category is “only 6k” for repair… where are the $10k bills?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ok I see…it seems prices did go up from 4 years ago (no surprise)… and there is some optional items in the quote.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rrpdc]

$3900 plus for just a service is nuts. Not even pp , ap, or jlc charge that for service.

[vitalsigns]

Originally Posted by Rrpdc

$3900 plus for just a service is nuts. Not even pp , ap, or jlc charge that for service.

Yes, but with Lange you also get the lower resale value broadly compared to PP and some APs... :eyeroll:

[CFR]

Originally Posted by Rrpdc

$3900 plus for just a service is nuts. Not even pp , ap, or jlc charge that for service.

The cost to service this model watch is 1400 Euro (about $1500 USD), not $3900. It is in Price Group 3 here.

Additional cosmetic or repair work beyond a typical movement servicing/overhaul will increase that amount.

It still ain't cheap, though!

[Bmats]

Originally Posted by edhahn44

I’ve actually experienced the same recently. Rate card for standard services increased dramatically. I’ve handed in a (pretty well worn) 1815 and the first quote I got was € 10k. Couldn’t believe it in the first place but they are serious about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That’s more than half the value. Did you get it down? Was there something wrong with the piece that caused that high of a quote?

[CFR]

Originally Posted by Bmats

That’s more than half the value. Did you get it down? Was there something wrong with the piece that caused that high of a quote?

Originally Posted by edhahn44

I’ve actually experienced the same recently. Rate card for standard services increased dramatically. I’ve handed in a (pretty well worn) 1815 and the first quote I got was € 10k. Couldn’t believe it in the first place but they are serious about it.

Ed, I'm really curious about this too. I'm trying to learn more about how Lange is handling service requests these days.

The base price to service an 1815 or 1815 Up/Down movement -- the lowest possible price that doesn't include case polishing, strap replacement, or anything else -- should be € 1100 (Price Group 1 here). Did Lange quote you that base price and then include a bunch of optional items that totaled € 10k?

Or did Lange quote you the higher € 3040 price to "repair" your movement and refurbish the case (Price Group 1 here), and also include various other extras (such as new strap, new hands/crystals, replacing your dial or parts of the case, optional movement "repairs," etc.)?

Or did they quote you in some other way?

I'd like to know how Lange got from € 1100 to € 10K with your watch, assuming it was "well-worn" (as you said) but otherwise undamaged when you sent it to them.