5513 refurbished by Rik Dietel

[PaulMiami]

Originally Posted by Dan S

I think we get the gist of how the printing looks from your photos. Not like the original when magnified, but I'm sure it looks fine on the wrist.

Seems a stretch to make such a comment with such confidence since you’ve neither seen it on my wrist or under magnification. Either way, I’m enjoying it.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by PaulMiami

Seems a stretch to make such a comment with such confidence since you’ve neither seen it on my wrist or under magnification. Either way, I’m enjoying it.

I'm just judging by the high resolution photos that you posted for us to look at, which is all that I can do. Unlike others, I'm not comfortable assuming that the dial is perfect and every apparent flaw must necessarily be due to image artifacts. I go by what I see. Feel free to post better photos if you feel they are not representative. Or not ... nobody is forcing you to post photos of your watch on a collectors forum.

In any case, I'm happy that you're enjoying it.

[ratty]

Originally Posted by one80

Assuming it is the same gentleman in London (and I’m confident it is), this is an example of his work showing the gilt relief.
Not the same watch/dial as OP.

Can you tell us who the man in London is?

He does appear to do good work.

[RFC]

OP started this thread informing that his family’s heirloom was refinished or restored by a reputable watchmaker. He didn’t ask for opinions before or after going ahead with the project. What’s more the OP is happy with the results and that’s important to him.

[HERITAGE82]

Amazing looking watch and I love that you were able to get it back to its old glory!

Rik is great to work with.

[TuRo]

Originally Posted by Dan S

I'm just judging by the high resolution photos that you posted for us to look at, which is all that I can do. Unlike others, I'm not comfortable assuming that the dial is perfect and every apparent flaw must necessarily be due to image artifacts. I go by what I see. Feel free to post better photos if you feel they are not representative. Or not ... nobody is forcing you to post photos of your watch on a collectors forum.

In any case, I'm happy that you're enjoying it.

I'm happy the OP is happy too.

The thing is though, there is in my opinion inconsistencies on this Rolex/Tudor forum to anything not 'original' and that's a shame imho.

I've just gone back and looked at the quite a few old posts, and when someone has put up say a piece, with whatever term you want to use a 'non-original' or 'artisan produced' or 'aftermarket' eg a GMT/sub insert, relumed dial or handset, a/m end links or a bracelet, or a non Rolex plexi (though tru-dome seem to get a pass by many oddly !!) etc etc.....most here would say of those items, 'that's not authentic Rolex sir, recommend you get it swapped out.' etc etc...and such was the disdain one chap was lambasted for displaying his GMT that was sporting a non-rolex insert!!

I just think this falls into somewhat the same category that's all, and in fact the font/detail/spacings that I can make out, I have seen better versions in Philipp Stahls RPR old piece on fake/aftermarket dials imho, costing a couple £100 or so.

But if someone wants to spend £0,000's on a replica painted dial that's fine and dandy (I guess the dial plate is at least heirloom so I can see that angle), but I think it's not unfriendly to say that some of us think its a unusual and costly route, and we wouldn't countenance it ourselves or recommend it to others.

[PaulMiami]

Originally Posted by TuRo

I'm happy the OP is happy too.

The thing is though, there is in my opinion inconsistencies on this Rolex/Tudor forum to anything not 'original' and that's a shame imho.

I've just gone back and looked at the quite a few old posts, and when someone has put up say a piece, with whatever term you want to use a 'non-original' or 'artisan produced' or 'aftermarket' eg a GMT/sub insert, relumed dial or handset, a/m end links or a bracelet, or a non Rolex plexi (though tru-dome seem to get a pass by many oddly !!) etc etc.....most here would say of those items, 'that's not authentic Rolex sir, recommend you get it swapped out.' etc etc...and such was the disdain one chap was lambasted for displaying his GMT that was sporting a non-rolex insert!!

I just think this falls into somewhat the same category that's all, and in fact the font/detail/spacings that I can make out, I have seen better versions in Philipp Stahls RPR old piece on fake/aftermarket dials imho, costing a couple £100 or so.

But if someone wants to spend £0,000's on a replica painted dial that's fine and dandy (I guess the dial plate is at least heirloom so I can see that angle), but I think it's not unfriendly to say that some of us think its a unusual and costly route, and we wouldn't countenance it ourselves or recommend it to others.

I have a hard time understanding Dan S's and TuRo's posts above. For starters, I just wanted to alert others of the great work Rik is capable of, detailing your watch and band, overhauling the mechanism, and even refinishing a dial, if that's what's needed/desired. I wasn't asking for anyone to approve or endorse his work.

But what strikes me as odd is how biased and dismissive some folks are of any work done on a dial. I could understand if I was trying to defraud someone representing that my watch had a pristine original dial, or even worse, if I put a 3-6-9 dial or 5512 dial on a regular 5513, or a gilt dial on a 5513 that came with a matte dial. But this is not the case.

It's just my opinion, but these are just watches, not grandmaster paintings. There are very few gilts because not that many were made (a good thing) AND also because the dials simply didn't hold up (not such a good thing). Let's face it, they weren't that well made or else there wouldn't have been so many gilts that needed service dials even within 5-10 years of them being made. If these were cars, in today's world, they would have been recalled.

Also, it's funny how quick these posters are to be critical of the work done on my dial when all they have is a rather poor (certainly not high resolution) photo. Assuming One80 is right (I think he is), he posted a magnified photo of the work by the London dial refinisher. I don't know how to take such a photo with my iPhone, but the lettering on my dial is very much like this when you examine it in person with a magnifying glass. The gold you see is not painted on; it's the brass shining through the black glossy paint with a clear coat on top. I don't know anyone that can do this for a couple hundred bucks. And the spacing, details, etc are all superb, even though in the photo they look sloppy.

You can criticize whether the financial decision of refinishing a dial is wise or not. Given how unpopular redials are, it's probably financially very unwise to do so. But its very unfair to be critical of the work this guy does without ever really seeing it.

[swish77]

You had a matte service dial that was shot, so I probably would have done the same thing, and had the dial refinished as best as possible in a style that is appropriate for the model and age of the watch.

Nice to see a family heirloom ready for the years ahead. Congrats.

[SAAS]

Congrats on finding Rik and getting the watch to a point where it can be enjoyed by you and future generations

[PaulMiami]

I felt it was important to defend this guy’s work, although as I understand, he’s got quite the backlog.

There are probably very few craftsmen that can do this work, most I would think are close to retiring. It’s a shame their work is shunned on this forum. Only way I see broader acceptance is if Rolex offered the service themselves as part of their luxury vintage watch service.

This is why Patek is Patek as they take full responsibility to restore every watch they made since 1839. They have records of everything they made and they will make whatever parts they need.

https://www.patek.com/en/retail-serv...es/restoration

Vacheron goes back to 1755, btw.

[MrChamfers]

Originally Posted by PaulMiami

I felt it was important to defend this guy’s work, although as I understand, he’s got quite the backlog.

There are probably very few craftsmen that can do this work, most I would think are close to retiring. It’s a shame their work is shunned on this forum. Only way I see broader acceptance is if Rolex offered the service themselves as part of their luxury vintage watch service.

This is why Patek is Patek as they take full responsibility to restore every watch they made since 1839. They have records of everything they made and they will make whatever parts they need.

https://www.patek.com/en/retail-serv...es/restoration

Vacheron goes back to 1755, btw.

There are quite a few "Collectors" on the forum. A lot of them have strong disdain for any dial work, including reluming of hour plots.
So watches in original, good condition command a premium.

However, from what I've read, many collectors bought their pristine examples before prices for watches and dials rose dramatically. So they don't really need to deal with the difficulty of restoring a damaged dial or paying through the nose for replacements.

[one80]

I think what PaulMiami has done with his watch is commendable, and I completely get where he's coming from.

There are many reasons that people would want (or need) a refinished dial - from having something that's period correct, to replacing something that's worn beyond use, or simply just wanting a different dial completely. All valid reasons.

There are people who swap their bezels to aftermarket for similar reasons too, or for a different/unique look, and I'm fine with this also.

Same goes for laser welding and refinishing. I often can't understand why people are against a craftsman restoring a watch to it's original condition.

Where I draw the line, is where a watch is represented as something that it's not, particularly for sale - e.g. a refinished and laser welded item being sold as NOS etc.
And PaulMiami has been completely open and transparent with his watch, so certainly does not fit in the above category.

It really is a lovely timepiece - wear in good health, and enjoy the work that has been put into it.

[baumare]

Congratulations to the OP for having restored his heirloom and to the watchmaker for the craftsmanship.
Personally, would I ever buy a watch refurbished by Rick, or Patek or Vacheron for that matter? Absolutely no!
Would I have done the restoration if the watch belonged to my grandfather?
Honestly I don’t know, I would have to see the condition of the dial before responding to this question.
Obviously nothing against the OP that genuinely promote this kind of intervention, but in a section of the RF where expert collector have been studying and discussing originality for years, I think is normal to see different opinions.

[PaulMiami]

Not everyone on this forum is a collector. Many of us are folks just like me; someone that now has a family heirloom they inherited or somehow came across. Often these watches are in disrepair and their new owner is asking for advice.

Almost always the advice is essentially to service the mechanism, maybe replace the crystal, don’t polish it, maybe refurbish the band if it’s original, but if not, put it on a NATO band.

This is fine and perhaps it’s the best advice for collectors, particularly those looking to maximize the value of the watch, net of repair costs. But this is not helpful if you have a watch that looks horrible, not at all like how it left the factory, and needs some intensive TLC.

Some of us may have an attachment to the watch that is personal and is coming from a different place than a collector. A collector is often looking at many watches and deciding which ones to acquire based on various criteria. But those of us that suddenly have a family heirloom don’t have this choice. The choice we have is what do I do with this one watch.

It’s very difficult to find information on the forum if your goal is to get this one watch back to its original glory, while also respecting its age. And there are lots of scammers out there selling horrible replacement parts, some at absurd prices.

My goal with this post has been to help folks that find themselves in a similar position, giving them an option that may be better than having a really bad looking watch, putting in a service dial that has little resemblance to what the watch came with, or playing Russian roulette with dials on eBay.

[some.idiot]

Paul, I think you have a wonderful watch and I hope you wear it in good health with good memories.

[Tom in Athens]

That restoration looks fantastic! Rik just finished up a 1988 16800 for me. He is a great guy to work with!
Best,
Tom