Spanish kiss story

[Lol-x]

On the one hand it seems overtly sexual kissing on the lips like he did.
People in Spain and other European countries do kiss but it is on the cheek. Even in Italy men kiss one another on the cheek at times of celebration (eg Christmas). Its well known that lips are off-limits, so I find it not possible to justify his action. Gripping his groin in public stage shows how poor his judgment is as a governing body president.

On the other hand there has been some political/administrative disquiet between the players and the governing body in the recent past. So the question of political weaponization arises.

At the end of the day it was very poor judgment. One man is not bigger than the game. So I would say he has to go.

[Speedbird-1]

Originally Posted by White Collar Boy

FIFA suspended him for 90 days.

Correct....I'm blaming AOL, for my, 'fake news'.
.................................................. ......................................

Interesting, that, although he apologised, ("Surely I was wrong, I have to admit," Rubiales said in the video statement sent by the federation.

"It was without bad faith at a time of maximum effusiveness.")
the player issued this statement:
"I didn't like it," said Spain midfielder Hermoso on an Instagram live stream after the game, although she was laughing as she spoke.

Later Hermoso said the moment was a "natural gesture of affection".

"It was a totally spontaneous mutual gesture because of the immense joy that winning a World Cup brings," said Hermoso, in comments passed to AFP by the Spanish federation.

"The president and I have a great relationship, his behaviour with all of us has been outstanding and it was a natural gesture of affection and gratitude.

"A gesture of friendship and gratitude cannot be gone over so much, we have won a World Cup and we are not going to deviate from what is important."

The witch-hunt (some say man-hunt) continues.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by White Collar Boy

It’s probably of little to no bearing on your indignation at Cancel Culture, but he refuses to resign actually. FIFA suspended him for 90 days.

Ok.
Keep in mind it's early days yet.
Even though he has 90 days in the bin, that gives the torch and pitchfork bearers a good deal more time to whip up more hysteria around it all and have his head on a platter as is going to be their want. Especially the media.
Their, being them or those who are predisposed to eliminate everything and or everyone they find to be offensive or have done something which they deem to be unacceptable on the day, as if they're the sole arbiters of what is right, proper and correct.
Keep in mind that there are those in the broader global community who are also offended at the extreme lengths some will go to in order to exact revenge in the name of justice or some kind or some twisted or extreme variation of social reform.
Just because someone doesn't have particularly good judgement and does something because they're living in the moment and has limited capacity to self monitor at certain times.
But the silent majority exercise a degree of self control and don't jump on the bandwagon to pursue others who they feel are not acceptable but exercise a degree of maturity and acceptance.
I acknowledge I have been more vocal on this subject as is my natural predisposition.
But keep in mind I haven't attempted to chastise of denigrate anyone else on the thread because I fully accept it takes all sorts.

The man was probably getting ahead of himself and I accept that.
As I said before, I made some cultural allowance for it or gave the situation some latitude in the absence of all the facts.
As someone has already said. Let the legal system thrash it out if there is a case to be made.
Not this BS narrative around sports garbage that a lot of people want to insert themselves into such as sections of the media and those who deem themselves to have some sort of a platform.
Just saying.
That's all

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by Speedbird-1

Correct....I'm blaming AOL, for my, 'fake news'.
.................................................. ......................................

Interesting, that, although he apologised, ("Surely I was wrong, I have to admit," Rubiales said in the video statement sent by the federation.

"It was without bad faith at a time of maximum effusiveness.")
the player issued this statement:
"I didn't like it," said Spain midfielder Hermoso on an Instagram live stream after the game, although she was laughing as she spoke.

Later Hermoso said the moment was a "natural gesture of affection".

"It was a totally spontaneous mutual gesture because of the immense joy that winning a World Cup brings," said Hermoso, in comments passed to AFP by the Spanish federation.

"The president and I have a great relationship, his behaviour with all of us has been outstanding and it was a natural gesture of affection and gratitude.

"A gesture of friendship and gratitude cannot be gone over so much, we have won a World Cup and we are not going to deviate from what is important."

The witch-hunt (some say man-hunt) continues.

Thanks for sharing
Context is everything.

[Speedbird-1]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Does that mean you guys will be dropping me from the list!?

No, definitely not!
In fact, I've now, double underlined your entry in my black book!

[SoylentGreenChi]

Setting aside the kiss and the associated scandal, his over exuberant behavior throughout the ceremony made him look like a complete jackass.

[Lol-x]

Originally Posted by Speedbird-1

....

Later Hermoso said the moment was a "natural gesture of affection".

"It was a totally spontaneous mutual gesture because of the immense joy that winning a World Cup brings," said Hermoso, in comments passed to AFP by the Spanish federation.

"The president and I have a great relationship, his behaviour with all of us has been outstanding and it was a natural gesture of affection and gratitude.

"A gesture of friendship and gratitude cannot be gone over so much, we have won a World Cup and we are not going to deviate from what is important."

You're quoting the Spanish Soccer Federation as to what Hermosa said, but she does not agree that she made these statements and says that the Federation had pressured her family, friends, colleagues, etc. to give testimony to water down the situation.

So all I say is these quotes may not be genuine and factual at all, but attempts by the Federation (under the control of its President) to exert false influence over this issue.

[White Collar Boy]

It’s all pretty interesting and dramatic stuff. I think the players just didn’t like him.

And yes, cancel culture is too extreme when it amounts to public shaming and destroying people, which is de rigueur. It’s good that people want to raise standards, but trying to get there by ruining a person who hasn’t done anything criminal seems a bit puritanical, and a less than righteous way forward.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by SoylentGreenChi

Setting aside the kiss and the associated scandal, his over exuberant behavior throughout the ceremony made him look like a complete jackass.

I hadn't seen all of it, but him being a jackass isn't outside the realms of possibility either.
It's not like being a jackass precludes a person from attaining lofty heights in those types of organisations either or any level of officialdom anywhere

[superdog]

Originally Posted by RichardBartlett

If you watch the whole scene including other players NOT ONE declined a hug or kiss.

If you watch the actual incident she puts her hands around his waist embracing him. Sure he was over exuberant but as she never reacted or objected. Walked away smiling
She also carried on celebrating and posting Instagram pictures. Only after, long after did she want to cash in on the 'me too' movement. (PTSD no doubt :-/)

Basically it's complete bollox. The lets go round up a posse as we are mortally offended
is part of why the west is in terminal decline and the rest of the world is busy pushing forward whilst the west is picking fluff out if his/her/them/they belly button..

A true assault needs and should be addressed. This is childish nonsense and we deserve everything the 3rd world is going to bring to us in due time...IMHO

Agree. I’m having trouble seeing where it was so bad. Or even a little bad. Seemed like both parties were joyously celebrating.

[Lol-x]

I'm sure this President has history given his style of behaviour and all the players dislike him having declared they will not play again whilst he remains President.

Its really a vote of no confidence. He's the figurehead of the federation and if he doesn't have the confidence of any of the players of the national team, then he needs to step down and maybe clean out all his cronies who blindly bow down to his dictatorial narcissistic style of governance.

The rot starts at the top...

[RichardBartlett]

In the changing room they are joking about them getting married and going to Ibiza

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1009134283632590

there is so much evidence she has been put up to this faux outrage it's embarrassing

[Speedbird-1]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

You're quoting the Spanish Soccer Federation as to what Hermosa said, but she does not agree that she made these statements and says that the Federation had pressured her family, friends, colleagues, etc. to give testimony to water down the situation.

So all I say is these quotes may not be genuine and factual at all, but attempts by the Federation (under the control of its President) to exert false influence over this issue.

I agree, they may not be true, but then again, they maybe.
I do know one thing for certain, I've lost interest, in the whole silly mess.

[White Collar Boy]

Originally Posted by Speedbird-1

I do know one thing for certain, I've lost interest, in the whole silly mess.

[Krash]

I remember my first good job as a computer programmer. This was back in the 1980s. My company hosted a Christmas party.

I suppose he drank more than he should have, but the VP of Operations kept kissing some of the women in attendance on the lips. It was painful to watch.

Of course, back then, there was no internet, social media or anything like that.

On Monday morning, everything was back to normal. No consequences. Nobody ever said anything about it.

If that happened today, there is ZERO possibility of him being able to keep his job.

Hate is a strong word, but I remember hating this guy (well before that event). Others felt the same way. In today’s world, people would have piled on because of their hatred for the guy. This guy would be tarred and feathered on social media.


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[Dan Pierce]

It's always the irony of ironies watching those who get outraged by those who get outraged.
dP

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by Krash

I remember my first good job as a computer programmer. This was back in the 1980s. My company hosted a Christmas party.

I suppose he drank more than he should have, but the VP of Operations kept kissing some of the women in attendance on the lips. It was painful to watch.

Of course, back then, there was no internet, social media or anything like that.

On Monday morning, everything was back to normal. No consequences. Nobody ever said anything about it.

If that happened today, there is ZERO possibility of him being able to keep his job.

Hate is a strong word, but I remember hating this guy (well before that event). Others felt the same way. In today’s world, people would have piled on because of their hatred for the guy. This guy would be tarred and feathered on social media.


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I remember at my company Christmas party (a daily newspaper) my boss grabbed my then wife’s butt. 50 years later I’m still pissed at myself that I didn’t punch his lights out. But I was kind of shocked it happened and so was she. We were sort of like…..did that really happen???

People can argue that things like this aren’t all that offensive and people laugh about it at the time……but what it is in all cases is basically a power move….. “I can do whatever I want”

So people can complain about “me too” and it’s various iterations but shutting down some a$$holes is a good thing.

[Krash]

Originally Posted by Blansky

I remember at my company Christmas party (a daily newspaper) my boss grabbed my then wife’s butt. 50 years later I’m still pissed at myself that I didn’t punch his lights out. But I was kind of shocked it happened and so was she. We were sort of like…..did that really happen???

People can argue that things like this aren’t all that offensive and people laugh about it at the time……but what it is in all cases is basically a power move….. “I can do whatever I want”

So people can complain about “me too” and it’s various iterations but shutting down some a$$holes is a good thing.

It is a power move. In the case I talked about, the guy was huge 6’4, 225 lbs. He was a VP and intimidating. Back then I was 5’10, 150 lbs dripping wet. What was I going to do? Same goes for all the other guys there.

There were no spouses and boy friends present either.


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[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by Speedbird-1

No, definitely not!
In fact, I've now, double underlined your entry in my black book!

Damm! At least I’m not in bold…. Yet

[superdog]

Originally Posted by Blansky

I remember at my company Christmas party (a daily newspaper) my boss grabbed my then wife’s butt. 50 years later I’m still pissed at myself that I didn’t punch his lights out. But I was kind of shocked it happened and so was she. We were sort of like…..did that really happen???

People can argue that things like this aren’t all that offensive and people laugh about it at the time……but what it is in all cases is basically a power move….. “I can do whatever I want”

So people can complain about “me too” and it’s various iterations but shutting down some a$$holes is a good thing.

Originally Posted by Krash

It is a power move. In the case I talked about, the guy was huge 6’4, 225 lbs. He was a VP and intimidating. Back then I was 5’10, 150 lbs dripping wet. What was I going to do? Same goes for all the other guys there.

There were no spouses and boy friends present either.


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Agreed. Power move.

The guy from mens wearhouse was notorious for sleeping with the wives of employees. Certainly cannot happen today.

That said, I don’t see a correlation with what happened here. What I watched was simply exuberant celebration between two people.

The guy might be a DB. This is the first I’ve ever heard of him. So I clearly don’t know.

But again, what I saw was not much of anything.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by superdog

Agreed. Power move.

The guy from mens wearhouse was notorious for sleeping with the wives of employees. Certainly cannot happen today.

That said, I don’t see a correlation with what happened here. What I watched was simply exuberant celebration between two people.

The guy might be a DB. This is the first I’ve ever heard of him. So I clearly don’t know.

But again, what I saw was not much of anything.

Yeah, when I kiss a woman it is usually considered not much of anything either.

[Hollie_Rollie]

Originally Posted by Letsgodiving

He also grabbed his crotch in celebration next to the Spanish Queen and her 16 year old daughter just before this episode so I don't think this guy has much of a filter. Exuberant celebration is one thing but this is just a spectacular demonstration of poor judgement and lack of decorum.

This, in my opinion, is enough for termination


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[BLACKHORSE 6]

Wasn’t familiar with this incident until this thread, but it reminds me of the V-J Day kiss that ended up on the cover of Time magazine. Interesting how much times have changed.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by superdog

Seemed like both parties were joyously celebrating.

It did indeed.
After the he planted his stolen smooch, she didn't exactly reel back in horror but instead patted him on the flank before moving along. She took it in her stride as if was expected to be a one off and never to be repeated.
If it wasn't a customary interaction between them due to familiarity, she handled it very well as I would expect of someone who is one of the best in the world at the game.
Maybe quietly she will be more vigilant of his exploits in the future.

I fully expect he won't do it again as well so lesson learnt.

[Blansky]

Or he could always say, well she deserved it, running around in those tight little shorts and all.....


Just kidding......or not.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by Blansky

People can argue that things like this aren’t all that offensive and people laugh about it at the time……but what it is in all cases is basically a power move….. “I can do whatever I want”

I can see where you are coming from.
It had elements of a power move about it.
We need to be mindful that those types of organisations and the people within and around them are possibly predisposed on some level to that type of behavior both on the field and off when ever an opportunity arises.
In most cases it's a part of life.
Sometimes it does go too far for the sensibilities of some but it's best handled between the party's involved going forward.

I have to ask.
Are you suggesting that he was somehow making a power move on her specifically?
Why would he be doing that?
It seems as though she was the only one to get special treatment

As I've said above, context is everything.
Maybe he realised his filter wasn't turned up quite high enough in the excitement of the moment and he moderated his behaviour going forward?
Maybe he was just so ecstatic and proud of how well she did her job on the day. Which will go toward a bigger pay packet for him in the future?
Maybe he was so excited at her roll of advancing women's football because he is so passionate about it?

There are going to be many layers to this we will never be privy to.

[Blansky]

This is really not all that complicated.

When I was growing up in Canada we were taught, don't impose yourself on other people. Meaning your music, your actions, being pushy..etc etc you get the idea.

The VJ picture that was taken by Eisenstaedt and others is drunken revelry by a sailor who came upon a dental hygienist while walking down the street and basically sexually assaulted her. Different times. Different situation. But he imposed himself on here without her consent. And she moved on (as if she had any recourse). As did he.

The soccer thing is an inappropriate display of a guy in power over a female he decided to kiss without consent. Could it be cultural that you mouth kiss people you don't know. Not sure. But I doubt it.

I guess for men to question the whole "me too" thing is basically maybe women don't really feel like being your possession that you can kiss/paw/grab/rape whenever the hell you feel like it.

So next time you see someone impose themselves on another person in this manner, maybe ask yourself,..... if that person was my wife, or daughter or son, how would I feel about them imposing/dominating them in that manner without their consent. And I'd argue, excitement of the moment is not a free pass.

But we all do stupid shit sometimes, and sometimes there is a price to pay.

We've all heard the lame excuses before....well he's just a touchy-feely kind of guy,.....comes from a family where everyone hugged and kissed.....if she wasn't asking for it why was she dressed like that....boys will be boys.....

It all comes down to respect.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by Blansky

This is really not all that complicated.

When I was growing up in Canada we were taught, don't impose yourself on other people. Meaning your music, your actions, being pushy..etc etc you get the idea.

The VJ picture that was taken by Eisenstaedt and others is drunken revelry by a sailor who came upon a dental hygienist while walking down the street and basically sexually assaulted her. Different times. Different situation. But he imposed himself on here without her consent. And she moved on (as if she had any recourse). As did he.

The soccer thing is an inappropriate display of a guy in power over a female he decided to kiss without consent. Could it be cultural that you mouth kiss people you don't know. Not sure. But I doubt it.

I guess for men to question the whole "me too" thing is basically maybe women don't really feel like being your possession that you can kiss/paw/grab/rape whenever the hell you feel like it.

So next time you see someone impose themselves on another person in this manner, maybe ask yourself,..... if that person was my wife, or daughter or son, how would I feel about them imposing/dominating them in that manner without their consent. And I'd argue, excitement of the moment is not a free pass.

But we all do stupid shit sometimes, and sometimes there is a price to pay.

We've all heard the lame excuses before....well he's just a touchy-feely kind of guy,.....comes from a family where everyone hugged and kissed.....if she wasn't asking for it why was she dressed like that....boys will be boys.....

It all comes down to respect.

I think we may largely be on the same page.
You describe the encounter as a mouth kiss
I'm not so sure it was anything other than a smooch on the lips that lingered a mere second longer than it should have as we weren't there and the camera angle doesn't facilitate any more clarity that is going to be required to read anything more into it.

I don't think it was an open mouth kiss, which is what i think you are describing it as, let alone him taking advantage of an opportunity to slip his tongue in.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by Dirt

I think we may largely be on the same page.
You describe the encounter as a mouth kiss
I'm not so sure it was anything other than a smooch on the lips that lingered a mere second longer than it should have as we weren't there and the camera angle doesn't facilitate any more clarity that is going to be required to read anything more into it.

I don't think it was an open mouth kiss, which is what i think you are describing it as, let alone him taking advantage of an opportunity to slip his tongue in.

LOL ….I never said anything about him slipping his tongue in.

What I said in the early post was an old joke…..

“What’s the definition of gross?. When you kiss granny goodbye and she slips you the tongue.”

Whatever….we’ve beat this horse to death.

[AzPaul]