Pissed! Collectors Watches 1946 Experience

[Yomada]

Originally Posted by KY..

Many people say buying vintage is a minefield.
Then buying modern from grey dealers or private owners must be a newer minefield.
In this case the OP has a brand new tampered watch with no warranty support.
And he noticed it.
So I wonder how many modern watch owners would be surprised to find out they don’t actually have a manufacturer’s warranty?

I remember seeing a dealer from NYC on TikTok, thinking he are so clever, pulled out a draw of dials and said how he was going to fix up a watch and make it beautiful. This and that. They are all in it to make a quick buck.

[pk552502]

I wouldn't be happy with that experience at all. Is the new dial you're getting exactly the same as a new one, or is there a way to tell it's a replacement? I assume it's identical. It's a rough situation, but you will still have a great almost brand new watch. It's good you're making the issue known. I've seen this dealer but have never dealt with them personally.

[Wahlberg]

Return the watch and buy another one.

That appraisal form looks so amateurish.

[EEpro]

Finally got a call back. I accepted a partial cash refund to cover the necessary repairs and am letting Rolex Dallas fix it up and service the movement for free. Various things were discussed (send back let them handle repair, let them take to NY RSC, full refund not on table though) and after considering all this... I think that this is cleanest and lowest risk for me.

All parties are unhappy so I think it's close to fair.

I would note that they say they know the flipper and AD well and there's zero chance this watch was ever opened or polished. They got a call in advance, negotiated the price, and took delivery of it 2 days after the card stamp. They feel RSC is taking advantage of a QC defect because they know it's a flipped watch.

I'm not saying I believe that or even care at this point. Just sharing.

I don't trust anyone selling these watches anymore so getting a refund and spending my money elsewhere doesn't make me feel better. A watch "blessed" by Rolex has more value to me than a seller's BNIB label. I've owned this watch before and always had a nagging suspicion any time I saw a flaw. This watch upon return is second only to AD buy in my mind.

For those curious, I asked RSC about the dial (two reps via two calls) as the listed 116520 dial and hands made me nervous. Turns out the steel dials for 11 series Daytona show up that way in price quotes. All the same price. The full part number for the 116500 white dial with white sub dials and black rings is 13/116528-321 which I verified twice would be installed and they verified via intake photography while I was on phone. I was assured for white dial Daytona the only dial that could ever be installed is the one it came with. Also the new one is NOT flagged S as a service dial according to RSC.

I'll update with macro pics in a month or so when it's back. Thanks all

[msnow]

Lesson learned for many of us.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Colina19]

Glad things turned for the better.

[PBJ1925]

Originally Posted by EEpro

Finally got a call back. I accepted a partial cash refund to cover the necessary repairs and am letting Rolex Dallas fix it up and service the movement for free. Various things were discussed (send back let them handle repair, let them take to NY RSC, full refund not on table though) and after considering all this... I think that this is cleanest and lowest risk for me.

All parties are unhappy so I think it's close to fair.

I would note that they say they know the flipper and AD well and there's zero chance this watch was ever opened or polished. They got a call in advance, negotiated the price, and took delivery of it 2 days after the card stamp. They feel RSC is taking advantage of a QC defect because they know it's a flipped watch.

I'm not saying I believe that or even care at this point. Just sharing.

I don't trust anyone selling these watches anymore so getting a refund and spending my money elsewhere doesn't make me feel better. A watch "blessed" by Rolex has more value to me than a seller's BNIB label. I've owned this watch before and always had a nagging suspicion any time I saw a flaw. This watch upon return is second only to AD buy in my mind.

For those curious, I asked RSC about the dial (two reps via two calls) as the listed 116520 dial and hands made me nervous. Turns out the steel dials for 11 series Daytona show up that way in price quotes. All the same price. The full part number for the 116500 white dial with white sub dials and black rings is 13/116528-321 which I verified twice would be installed and they verified via intake photography while I was on phone. I was assured for white dial Daytona the only dial that could ever be installed is the one it came with. Also the new one is NOT flagged S as a service dial according to RSC.

I'll update with macro pics in a month or so when it's back. Thanks all

Glad to hear 1946 called back and offered some type of resolution.

Best wishes for a speedy service/delivery back to original spec from RSC.

[Andad]

1946 should have refunded you in full without question.

This thread is not a good reference for them.

[Dom9]

Definitely should have refunded in full, whilst the dial could be a QC defect, what about the bracelet?

Are you able to keep the parts that are being replaced with a contribution or is that a no-no for Daytona dials? If you could keep it, and it wasn't much money, you can perhaps sell it on to recoup a bit more money. Someone with a black dial might want the white dial, even with the defect, to swap in.

[1William]

Once again, sorry that this is happening. There are great sellers out there that would not knowingly sell a watch like the one the OP got and if there was an issue, would make it right either with a repair or refund. Which ever one worked for the buyer. Our Trusted Sellers are that because of the reputation they have earned based on performance. To put all sellers into the same boat is neither fair or logical. Just like we have stories about AD's not acting or doing right we also have stories of great AD experiences and service. The lesion learned or just reinforced for me is to stick with the sellers that I have great purchase history with and while I might pay a little more, I will not face a situation like this.

[GSDLover]

Davidsw would never have done this to you.

[RTG]

OP, thank you for sharing. Hard to type I’m sure, but important for us to read. Glad RSC will take care of you. Short of feeding it to Vinnie, you probably made the safest choice. I can only imaging they would screw you further if sent back to them. Hope you post your story everywhere possible.

[tike71]

Originally Posted by EEpro

Various things were discussed (send back let them handle repair, let them take to NY RSC, full refund not on table though) and after considering all this... I think that this is cleanest and lowest risk for me.

All parties are unhappy so I think it's close to fair.

No one is ever happy issuing a refund, but that should have been an option on the table regardless of their emotions.

You should pursue the diminished value of a watch that has gotten its warranty voided, that's a significant issue that wasn't mentioned.

[bay_area_kid]

Originally Posted by tike71

No one is ever happy issuing a refund, but that should have been an option on the table regardless of their emotions.

You should pursue the diminished value of a watch that has gotten its warranty voided, that's a significant issue that wasn't mentioned.

I agree. I don't think a partial refund to cover all repairs is enough. The warranty is voided so the refund amount should also cover the diminished value, probably the difference between a BNIB watch and a watch without a warranty.

[mrlube1151001]

Sad state of affairs.There are trusted sellers here.if he could have bought it from them there at least you will have a piece of mind

[illiguy]

Have others dealt with them? Not sure whether to question their BNIB watches that are stickered. Like all places, transparency is key, and I’m sure it’s very grey (no pun intended) in pre-owned space.

[TunaTuna]

I wouldn't have messed around with RSC, if you get a watch that is not as advertised or to your liking, just return it. There are thousands out there to buy again.

Collectors always has the cheapest prices on Chrono and Ebay. It's a pawn shop and always seems a little shady.

They seem to be a real company though, so just return it if you can at this point. Also buy another pre owned one this time. Your BNIB watch will be pre owned once you wear it, and you will save a bunch.

Sorry that happened

[illiguy]

Originally Posted by TunaTuna

I wouldn't have messed around with RSC, if you get a watch that is not as advertised or to your liking, just return it. There are thousands out there to buy again.

Collectors always has the cheapest prices on Chrono and Ebay. It's a pawn shop and always seems a little shady.

They seem to be a real company though, so just return it if you can at this point. Also buy another pre owned one this time. Your BNIB watch will be pre owned once you wear it, and you will save a bunch.

Sorry that happened

Happy 1,000th post!

[Dom9]

Will it get a new warranty once serviced by the RSC, hence that's kind of built-in to the cost being refunded?

[illiguy]

Originally Posted by EEpro

I purchased a BNIB white dial Daytona with a September 2023 warranty card and both hang tags etc. Top dollar paid for the full kit.

Upon arrival I noticed some irregularities in the brushed bracelet pattern including what looked like a touch up attempt on a handling mark. I also noticed a flaw on the dial. At that point I reached out to the dealer.



I received a phone call from Vinnie in response assuring me the watch was genuine and Rolex had changed their brushing technique in 2021. I also own 2 other Daytonas post 2021 so I would respectfully disagree on this point.

Here is the dial flaw.





We agreed that I would send to Rolex in Dallas and that they would cover the price of any replacement watch links. The assumption at this point is the dial is a QC flaw and will be gratis (this will be found to be billable damage when the Rolex watch maker locates the missing ink scraped onto / deposited on the inside of the watch case during dial reinstall).

Here is the written feedback from RSC. I skipped Page 2 as it lists the hands they want to replace.







Some important notes:
Non-Rolex refinish
Movement contaminated
Dial damaged
Warranty void (less than 2 months into 5 year period)

Rolex wants $888 to replace the dial and hands and would charge $1900 to replace the bracelet. They offered to service the watch and polish the case and bracelet for free due to the situation.

I called RSC to get feedback from the watchmaker about the damage and refinish. At this point I'm thinking: Why on earth would someone have the dial pulled out on a 2-3 weeks-old Daytona from the AD? I ran to check my white hang tag which read 116500-001 thankfully. Not a black to white swap. Still no clue why. Watchmaker confirms the brushed elements of the bracelet have been rebrushed.

I did not pay for a used mint watch with a polished case and bracelet. It was advertised as BNIB. I called to confirm everything before paying online I was assured it was fresh from an AD. Current month warranty etc.

I followed up with a phone call to Collectors again. They confirmed receipt of the RSC email. I was told I would get a call back from Vinnie.

Not yet. I am still waiting on that call.

At this point my watch is in the safest hands at RSC so I'm not panicked unless the movement comes back fake during service. The total price for dial and bracelet is $2788.

Collectors has a chance to make it right. They should issue a partial refund on my PayPal payment to adjust for my out of pocket costs, lost warranty, and incorrectly advertised BNIB vs MINT purchase price. I still have some levels of Amex and PayPal adjudication available but I hope they just do the right thing.

I'll try to keep this thread updated but will be doing 18 hours of driving this Thanksgiving weekend.

Important note: if a reseller / dealer opens your brand new watch to authenticate the movement and contaminates the movement or leaves any trace, your warranty is void.

Happy Thanksgiving, all!

Coming back to this. When you says “BNIB” was yours full stickered and advertised as “unworn”?

[ThunderRoad261]

I would advise against using Collectors 1946 due to what I perceive as dubious business practices. When I was new to collecting watches, I bought a 114060 from them, which was missing two links despite being advertised as new in box (NIB). At the time, I was inexperienced in the watch world and didn’t notice this issue until I later traded it with a reputable dealer for a 116610LN. Last year, I decided to give them another chance and bought a DJ41 oyster bracelet, which was also sold as new. However, upon arrival, it clearly had scratches. I chose to keep it since the price seemed reasonable and we weren't talking about a ton of money, but the experience was certainly misleading. An acquaintance of mine also had a similar experience earlier this year when purchasing a BLNR advertised as new, only to find the lugs had been polished. They have multiple stores on Long Island, so I'm not sure if this issue is in all their store locations. Either way, I have lost all trust in Collectors 1946. They seem to play games with number of links and misrepresent the condition of what they sell. I would stick with the known trusted dealers, they are more expensive but you know what you are getting.

[illiguy]

Originally Posted by ThunderRoad261

I would advise against using Collectors 1946 due to what I perceive as dubious business practices. When I was new to collecting watches, I bought a 114060 from them, which was missing two links despite being advertised as new in box (NIB). At the time, I was inexperienced in the watch world and didn’t notice this issue until I later traded it with a reputable dealer for a 116610LN. Last year, I decided to give them another chance and bought a DJ41 oyster bracelet, which was also sold as new. However, upon arrival, it clearly had scratches. I chose to keep it since the price seemed reasonable and we weren't talking about a ton of money, but the experience was certainly misleading. An acquaintance of mine also had a similar experience earlier this year when purchasing a BLNR advertised as new, only to find the lugs had been polished. They have multiple stores on Long Island, so I'm not sure if this issue is in all their store locations. Either way, I have lost all trust in Collectors 1946. They seem to play games with number of links and misrepresent the condition of what they sell. I would stick with the known trusted dealers, they are more expensive but you know what you are getting.

Yikes! Thank you for sharing. This info is important for the community to know about!

[btinl]

Originally Posted by EEpro

Finally got a call back. I accepted a partial cash refund to cover the necessary repairs and am letting Rolex Dallas fix it up and service the movement for free. Various things were discussed (send back let them handle repair, let them take to NY RSC, full refund not on table though) and after considering all this... I think that this is cleanest and lowest risk for me.

All parties are unhappy so I think it's close to fair.

I would note that they say they know the flipper and AD well and there's zero chance this watch was ever opened or polished. They got a call in advance, negotiated the price, and took delivery of it 2 days after the card stamp. They feel RSC is taking advantage of a QC defect because they know it's a flipped watch.

I'm not saying I believe that or even care at this point. Just sharing.

I don't trust anyone selling these watches anymore so getting a refund and spending my money elsewhere doesn't make me feel better. A watch "blessed" by Rolex has more value to me than a seller's BNIB label. I've owned this watch before and always had a nagging suspicion any time I saw a flaw. This watch upon return is second only to AD buy in my mind.

For those curious, I asked RSC about the dial (two reps via two calls) as the listed 116520 dial and hands made me nervous. Turns out the steel dials for 11 series Daytona show up that way in price quotes. All the same price. The full part number for the 116500 white dial with white sub dials and black rings is 13/116528-321 which I verified twice would be installed and they verified via intake photography while I was on phone. I was assured for white dial Daytona the only dial that could ever be installed is the one it came with. Also the new one is NOT flagged S as a service dial according to RSC.

I'll update with macro pics in a month or so when it's back. Thanks all

Wow. A full refund would be the only acceptable offer.

[train-time]

Originally Posted by btinl

Wow. A full refund would be the only acceptable offer.

Absolutely agree with you that a full refund would be the only acceptable solution. I really feel sorry for the OP. Let this serve a fair warning for all looking to do business with this seller.

I guess I am way too particular to spend premium dollars on a piece represented as BNIB and end up in this situation and wouldn't be happy keeping this piece even after RSC addresses the issues. Every time I looked at it, I would relive the unfortunate circumstances surrounding the watch. I couldn't keep it and with no warranty it's a tough sell.

[offrdmania]

This transaction went through Paypal. Was it a goods and service payment? Paypal could have facilitated the full refund due to the listing stating BNIB when it clearly wasnt

[Eric88]

One of the most troubling aspects of this thread and overall experience is if the OP hadn't sent the watch to RSC to uncover the issues...what kind of leverage and proof would they have without this? The seller could simply disagree and it would be a he said/she said type of scenario.

I guess this particular seller has a reputation issue now, while the OP has what will be as close to a new/BNIB version of the watch they paid for at a premium. Hopefully the partial refunds ease the pain.

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by illiguy

Have others dealt with them? Not sure whether to question their BNIB watches that are stickered. Like all places, transparency is key, and I’m sure it’s very grey (no pun intended) in pre-owned space.

I’ve seen sticker kits being sold online, so I don’t think “still has stickers” has much meaning anymore.

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by illiguy

Coming back to this. When you says “BNIB” was yours full stickered and advertised as “unworn”?

Yes. Advertised as NEW / BNIB full kit 3 weeks after card date. White tag green tag bezel plastic etc. The case and clasp had factory stickers.

They took the URL down but you can Google their sku in the certificate to see their listings.

[SudiYunus]

Originally Posted by ThunderRoad261

I would advise against using Collectors 1946 due to what I perceive as dubious business practices. When I was new to collecting watches, I bought a 114060 from them, which was missing two links despite being advertised as new in box (NIB). At the time, I was inexperienced in the watch world and didn’t notice this issue until I later traded it with a reputable dealer for a 116610LN. Last year, I decided to give them another chance and bought a DJ41 oyster bracelet, which was also sold as new. However, upon arrival, it clearly had scratches. I chose to keep it since the price seemed reasonable and we weren't talking about a ton of money, but the experience was certainly misleading. An acquaintance of mine also had a similar experience earlier this year when purchasing a BLNR advertised as new, only to find the lugs had been polished. They have multiple stores on Long Island, so I'm not sure if this issue is in all their store locations. Either way, I have lost all trust in Collectors 1946. They seem to play games with number of links and misrepresent the condition of what they sell. I would stick with the known trusted dealers, they are more expensive but you know what you are getting.

+1, stay away from them, a buddy of mine bought a used Rolex in 2020, that they claimed to be 2019, a few months old, but his watchmaker absolutely sure the watch is at least 2-3 years older, no warranty card.

[illiguy]

Originally Posted by EEpro

Yes. Advertised as NEW / BNIB full kit 3 weeks after card date. White tag green tag bezel plastic etc. The case and clasp had factory stickers.

They took the URL down but you can Google their sku in the certificate to see their listings.

Thanks for confirming. This is terrifying.