Rolex buying "experience" has left me kinda sour

[brandrea]

Life is short OP. Buy grey. You can stand on principle till he’ll freezes over …

The CHNR has come down in price substantially since the peak craziness. You can probably pick one up for close to retail price plus tax

[febie111]

Greasy Rolex AD's,phoney waiting lists,preferred / established clients,a significant proportion immediately sold brand new on the grey market at inflated prices,crime risk and so on.

What's not to like about trying to purchase a Rolex watch?

[bluestreak]

I’m going to come out and say I don’t believe the OP. Sure a GMT is hard to get, that part is true. But those prices he’s quoting are outrageous.

Also, I doubt a reseller is going to out his connection by naming them. Much less admitting that split the proceeds. And saying the AD will verify this to someone who buys grey? Come on…

People believe this because they are inclined to dislike Rolex because they can’t get a watch. But seriously people.

Also, why does everyone want the same 5 watches? OPs, Explorers, Datejusts, even Subs terrific are attainable after reasonable waits if you shop around. Not to mention the multitudes of other watches that are fantastic. I’d buy one of those before getting angry that I can’t get a GMT or a Daytona. Everyone wants the same watch. Not everyone is going to get one.

Also, I love how people are calling grey sellers “dishonest,” and “sleazy” or “greasy.”
Most of these people have a product, clearly mark the price, and will send you a genuine watch and usually stand by their product. Where is the dishonesty and sleaze in that?

People’s brains are addled by not being able to get a watch.

[Hulkhunter]

To be fair, the secondary market price mostly represents the supply and demand of the watches. The TT gmts are doable now but the steel was always going to be a tough ask.

If they could please everyone there wouldn’t be a secondary market premium. Frustrating? Yes but the choices are build a relationship with an AD or pay the market price.

[Calatrava r]

If you want desirable SS sports models from ADs, you have to realize there are a lot of people like you all wanting the same thing and the ADs cannot supply products to everyone, when they do not have ample quantities to do so.
How someone gets a watch from an AD is largely subjective and varies with each AD. This is why it makes a lot of sense to inquire at as many ADs in person as you can.

[1William]

Interesting post and responses. For me the first thing the OP needs to do is get his feelings out of the watch purchases. It is OK to have passion but it has to be buffered with reality. The market is what it is, for better or worse. Raging against the prices and availability of in demand watches from the premier brand in the world because you can not get the model you want from and AD at retail comes off as entitled and uninformed. Do I like the way that it is in regards to availability, absolutely not, but I also have educated myself as to the market, not just Rolex, and I am an informed consumer. We have some great Trusted Sellers here on TRF and many times the prices they are asking are reasonable when you look at retail plus tax plus waiting times. Just because the Omega people, I am a huge fan and owner by the way, will sell you watches that are in the case at a discount means little. Go in and ask for an allocation piece, 321 or Snoopy, and see if you don't get the same treatment as with Rolex. Buy history, waiting lists and no time frames for delivery. Just the way that it is. Our hobby is great and has provided me with a lot of enjoyment over the years but it became more enjoyable when I just accepted the way that it is. Does not mean I like it and don't want to go into an AD and buy both SS Daytona's at a discount but that is not going to happen. OP, research what you want here with the Trusted Seller, make informed decisions and get the watch you are good with. Good luck.

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Life is short OP. Buy grey. You can stand on principle till he’ll freezes over …

The CHNR has come down in price substantially since the peak craziness. You can probably pick one up for close to retail price plus tax

But now in most areas we are required to pay the tax on everything we buy, and most large used watch dealers are withholding the tax in the US. Tax is rapidly becoming a non-issue.

[SpeedyTuomas]

Find a good AD and stick with him/her. Never buy anything that you don't like and want.

[2loaded]

Another example of RLX stimulating the market via trickle down.

[7enderbender]

The arrogance and behavior of the (third party) dealers without any obvious intervention by Rolex has the potential to really hurt the brand. Add to that a worldwide downturn (as we’re starting to see in China) and deaign choices that cater towards rhe “developing world” and the nouveau riche might well come to bite everyone in the behind.

Fine by me if that means I can more easily find a green dial 36mm DJ and 36mm Explorer - the only models worthwhile since the introduction of the 6-digit models in my view.

Similar stories for Swatch Group and others. Though I must say the Omega boutique experience (run by Omega) is much more pleasant. Where they lack is getting the watches serviced here in the US.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-checkout=true

https://www.nzz.ch/wirtschaft/die-sw...mktcval=E-mail

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/sw...china-downturn

[samson66]

As you mentioned, now is the perfect time to explore other brands. I also enjoy Omega, and the boutique experience is an absolute joy compared to the misery at virtually every Rolex AD. At Omega you aren't rushed, their SAs are typically people that enjoy watches or are fellow enthusiasts, and you can actually try on anything you want and usually take one home that day.

I get that Rolex ADs have a situation where demand far outstrips supply, but the games they play are nauseating from the fake lists to the spend history and they usual disinterest in the window shopping customer. Totally understand your frustration.

[Kevin of Larchmont]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

No waiting, no pleading, no buying stuff you don't want. No anniversaries, weddings, birthdays or granny's favourite colour stories needed.

Same here, watch box well stocked and self-respect entirely intact. Perhaps you should look inward, it sounds like you’re doing it wrong.

[samson66]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

But now in most areas we are required to pay the tax on everything we buy, and most large used watch dealers are withholding the tax in the US. Tax is rapidly becoming a non-issue.

Not sure which greys you work with but all the ones on here do not charge sales tax unless you live in the state where they reside.

Now if you go to the big online stores like watchbox or Joma you will pay sales tax.

[Kevin of Larchmont]

Originally Posted by 1William

Raging against the prices and availability of in demand watches from the premier brand in the world because you can not get the model you want from and AD at retail comes off as entitled and uninformed.

This should be a sticky.

[Mystro]

Buying a Rolex is the worst part about the brand. It’s either expensive or frustratingly fruitless. Buy from one of our trusted sellers and move on with enjoyment of the watch and your life.

[7enderbender]

Originally Posted by Kevin of Larchmont

This should be a sticky.

My beef is not that stuff is in high demand and not readily available. The issue is that Rolex sees no need to put some kind of management system in place and lets the “ADs” roam free and tarnish their reputation.
How hard is it to let people sign up for a real wait list where you know if and when you get the model you want. There are plenty of examples on how to do this. At the moment it’s more like the Ferrari scams we hear about. If somebody told me, yes, we’ll order this one and this one for you. Here’s your down payment. See you in three years. I’d be perfectly fine with that.
Not having the ability to even call somewhere and getting some smug non-answer instead and being dependent on some random sales rep deeming you “Rolex worthy” or not, is problematic. And yes, they currently sell everything that comes in. One day they may beg us again to buy a watch at a discount.
And no, my wife doesn’t want a tennis bracelet or diamond studded quartz watch.

[sambb]

it's supply and demand. One could have conceptually similar experiences on dating apps (an individual who is in demand, will get a lot more offers from someone who isnt), or in a job search, or any other aspect of life. You can also use supply and demand to your benefit - create a skill set that is "in demand" and in low supply, and you also will get many job offers that compete for your employment. I see the same in concerts (taylor swift tickets), etc.

Supply and demand are part of an economy in the many parts of the world. Eventually, if you seek alternatives, you can disrupt supply and demand. Omega makes a great watch, so you have a way to disrupt the process. Good luck.

[KatGirl]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

Nope, never. I'm lucky in that I have strong antibodies to anything with a ceramic bezel.

No waiting, no pleading, no buying stuff you don't want. No anniversaries, weddings, birthdays or granny's favourite colour stories needed.

Because you aren’t buying models that the OP is trying to acquire. You belong to a different group of Rolex collectors. Your experience is not relevant. Like Neal, I exercise a little patience and slowly get what I want, without settling for a brand I don’t want, and I no longer have much interest in vintage models, though I can certainly appreciate why other collectors do. As for self respect, I’ve probably got a little TOO MUCH of that…..

Kat


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[NAUI1982]

Originally Posted by 7enderbender

My beef is not that stuff is in high demand and not readily available. The issue is that Rolex sees no need to put some kind of management system in place and lets the “ADs” roam free and tarnish their reputation.
How hard is it to let people sign up for a real wait list where you know if and when you get the model you want. There are plenty of examples on how to do this. At the moment it’s more like the Ferrari scams we hear about. If somebody told me, yes, we’ll order this one and this one for you. Here’s your down payment. See you in three years. I’d be perfectly fine with that.
Not having the ability to even call somewhere and getting some smug non-answer instead and being dependent on some random sales rep deeming you “Rolex worthy” or not, is problematic. And yes, they currently sell everything that comes in. One day they may beg us again to buy a watch at a discount.
And no, my wife doesn’t want a tennis bracelet or diamond studded quartz watch.

Yup. Just institute an order system with a down payment and a transparent process for buying. It’s not hard. Rolex controls the AD network, just do this and problem solved.

[KatGirl]

Originally Posted by NAUI1982

Yup. Just institute an order system with a down payment and a transparent process for buying. It’s not hard. Rolex controls the AD network, just do this and problem solved.

The ADs control who gets their inventory. Each AD owns their stock. When you try on any exhibition piece, that watch is owned by the AD, and after it’s finished its duty, will be allocated to a customer. Rolex’s control goes only so far. Yes, the ADs have guidelines to follow, that Rolex put in place, but they don’t pertain to who should get allocations. That is completely within the AD’s purview.

Kat


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[Kevin of Larchmont]

Originally Posted by 7enderbender

My beef is not that stuff is in high demand and not readily available. The issue is that Rolex sees no need to put some kind of management system in place and lets the “ADs” roam free and tarnish their reputation.
How hard is it to let people sign up for a real wait list where you know if and when you get the model you want. There are plenty of examples on how to do this. At the moment it’s more like the Ferrari scams we hear about. If somebody told me, yes, we’ll order this one and this one for you. Here’s your down payment. See you in three years. I’d be perfectly fine with that.
Not having the ability to even call somewhere and getting some smug non-answer instead and being dependent on some random sales rep deeming you “Rolex worthy” or not, is problematic. And yes, they currently sell everything that comes in. One day they may beg us again to buy a watch at a discount.
And no, my wife doesn’t want a tennis bracelet or diamond studded quartz watch.

I’m going to make a generalization and say we are all capitalists here, that we all have the luxury of contributing to a Rolex forum because we collectively do well as a group. So why is it that while capitalism has empowered us to enjoy the brand so many of us become socialists when it comes to acquiring the brand and demand transparency and equality above all else?

As has been discussed here Rolex dealer margins are small while their infrastructure requirements are high. The Rolex brand provides their dealer network with a powerful draw to bring clients into their stores. Rolex has very stringent requirements for their ADs and as long as those requirements are met then the ADs have free rein to administrate the brand in their stores. Clearly some do it more appealingly others.

This isn’t bread and water, none of us deserve a Rolex or any other toy or bauble that we want whenever we want it. To wave the banner of fairness while we buy multiples of luxury watches is absurd, maybe insane. To paraphrase another poster, capitalism is a rough sport. But history shows that socialism is rougher.

[Eagles]

Had some time to kill whilst in Glasgow a few days ago and checked out several watch shops / boutiques (fwiw Glasgow is fantastic for watch shopping)

Both Rolex boutiques were a severe let down. In one I got told a GMT “is impossible” and felt like I was an irritation to the SA, whilst in the other the sales staff were legitimately so rude I couldn’t wait to leave. I could kinda of expect that treatment if it was busy but I was one of about four people in there.

Stark contrast to the other brand shops I walked into where all staff were so friendly and accommodating it’s a wonder anyone wants a Rolex anymore.

Sad state of affairs!

[bluestreak]

Originally Posted by NAUI1982

Yup. Just institute an order system with a down payment and a transparent process for buying. It’s not hard. Rolex controls the AD network, just do this and problem solved.

If you owned a business why would you do this? Maintain records and hold funds for years. Zero flexibility for new clients. Not to mention that for certain watches the waitlists would quickly balloon to 10-20 years.
These places don’t exist solely to distribute Rolex products. They exist to sell stuff.

If the guy that just got picked in the NBA draft comes in and says he wants a sub, a jeweler should turn him and his future business away because he’s got to wait in line like everyone else?

This is not how business works. At All

[metallic]

Excellent commentary here.

Yes, it can be frustrating, but to complain about how economics work relative to supply and demand is ludicrous.

And stating that 3rd party sellers are sleazy and greasy just ignores the simple idea that they are operating a business with risks and overhead and are there to turn a profit.

Any of us could quickly become a “mini” grey seller when we tire of a particular watch and list it for sale. Do you think anyone in their right mind is going to list their SS Daytona at the original MSRP when the market value is 2X that price. Of course not. That’s not sleazy, that’s called business.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by stark1

OP, I know you said no grays, but agree with this post that the secondary market pricing you're citing are completely out of touch. Check out watchrecon to see where more realistic prices are at, where many of the TRF trusted sellers post.

That said, the Omega is a fantastic choice. I don't think you'll be disappointed going that direction.

Oh I know the prices are totally out of touch. The frustrating part for me is that ADs are straight up using the grey to juice profits instead of just selling to customers like they're supposed to. This isn't that uncommon either. I read a thread on it here I believe a year or two ago.

As for the Omega bit a few have chimed in on, I've got several Omega pieces and my Rolex along with a half dozen others. Omega is great, so is Rolex but for different reason's I'd say.

[Harry-57]

Originally Posted by NAUI1982

Yup. Just institute an order system with a down payment and a transparent process for buying. It’s not hard. Rolex controls the AD network, just do this and problem solved.

Taking orders and fulfilling them is easy. Running a successful business which sells things is a whole different undertaking. The acquisition of Bucherer looks like a vertical model might emerge, at least in part, but I doubt these boutiques will have Rolex vending machines full of SS Subs, GMTs, OPs, etc. If they do, Rolex will have got it very wrong, which would be unusual to say the least.

The conduct of some ADs seems to be the issue here. My AD doesn't treat customers like dirt. Plenty don't. Why should they be punished for the conduct of a few idiots?

[Torshalla]

Fully understand your frustration…

The first AD i visited laughted at me when I enquired about a Sub no date last year… the SA tried to get me to look at other watches, I politely declined and walked away, never set foot there again. And never will.

Then I visited the other AD in my city, and got very well received. Received as a potential customer, treated with respect and even a sense of VIP (which is appreciated when considering spending such amounts), and been told the situation as it was, they would register my interest and it may take up to a year, potentially more due to high demand.
Actually got the call within 4 weeks. The SA seemed surprised just as much as I was… anyway got treated as VIP again and bought my Sub :).
They now have my interest registered for a couple of other watches…

I think it is like for anything else… there are ADs that take advantage of the market and treat customers like shit… and there are ADs that remain very professionnal.
If you can, try other ADs…


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[Neil McCauley]

Originally Posted by Kevin of Larchmont

I’m going to make a generalization and say we are all capitalists here, that we all have the luxury of contributing to a Rolex forum because we collectively do well as a group. So why is it that while capitalism has empowered us to enjoy the brand so many of us become socialists when it comes to acquiring the brand and demand transparency and equality above all else?

As has been discussed here Rolex dealer margins are small while their infrastructure requirements are high. The Rolex brand provides their dealer network with a powerful draw to bring clients into their stores. Rolex has very stringent requirements for their ADs and as long as those requirements are met then the ADs have free rein to administrate the brand in their stores. Clearly some do it more appealingly others.

This isn’t bread and water, none of us deserve a Rolex or any other toy or bauble that we want whenever we want it. To wave the banner of fairness while we buy multiples of luxury watches is absurd, maybe insane. To paraphrase another poster, capitalism is a rough sport. But history shows that socialism is rougher.

Love this take.

Originally Posted by Eagles

Had some time to kill whilst in Glasgow a few days ago and checked out several watch shops / boutiques (fwiw Glasgow is fantastic for watch shopping)

Both Rolex boutiques were a severe let down. In one I got told a GMT “is impossible” and felt like I was an irritation to the SA, whilst in the other the sales staff were legitimately so rude I couldn’t wait to leave. I could kinda of expect that treatment if it was busy but I was one of about four people in there.

Stark contrast to the other brand shops I walked into where all staff were so friendly and accommodating it’s a wonder anyone wants a Rolex anymore.

Sad state of affairs!

Well, I’m not sure what you expected in Glasgow LMAO

[Ferrari-F430]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

I'm actually a big fan of the current Oyster Perpetuals (I have two different 114300s), but anything with a ceramic bezel is a big turn-off. Fortunately, that means I can get the watches I actually want without any great bother.

Part of the allure for most is the thought that they can resale the watch for more than they paid, and that's not the case with most if not all OP's. I wish I could feel the same way about OP's, because I'm sick of competing with flippers and speculators that just buy because they know it's worth more and not because they plan on having a life-long timepiece they can appreciate day in and day out.

It's maddening that I can't get my second Rolex from an AD after 20 years of memories with my first one, while sitting on a wait list for a year and a half with no real end in sight.. I'm beginning to wonder if my AD will ever get me a GMT Master. Meanwhile, the special events that I wanted this watch for have come and gone which makes it worse. Like many, I refuse to buy grey market and know too many that have been ripped off buying a superclone they thought was real.

[RichardBartlett]

Originally Posted by bluestreak

Also, why does everyone want the same 5 watches? .

People only want what other people wanted first.. Herd mentality runs deep in human psyche. Most people are afraid of thinking outside the box. That is how clever Rolex marketing has been.

It's made it almost compulsory among non watch aficionados that 'Rolex' is a celebration 'special event' 'look at how successful I am' purchase. It also made sure everyone else knew it too so becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

As the saying goes, "Buy a Rolex to impress others" We've all fallen for it if we're honest